Ignition switch need help

[SteveRoll]

hi, new to 3 wheeler world. I have a 83 or 84 honda atc 200 that i bought for a project. I am trying to install a ignition switch but the colors are different for the one i bought at the local parts store. How can figure out which way to wire the three wheeler. I tried wiring in the ignition switch but i am not getting a headlight either. My headlight only has two wires. push starter still works, however this bike has no neutral indicator either.

[350for350]

The best thing to do is to figure out exactly what year and model you have. Then buy the correct ignition switch for it. I believe that the last year for the ATC200 was 1983 and as far as I know, they never had an ignition switch since they were pull start only with no battery. It it's a 1983, it's probably an ATC200E. If it's a 1984, it could be an ATC200ES or an ATC200M.

[SteveRoll]

The best thing to do is to figure out exactly what year and model you have. Then buy the correct ignition switch for it. I believe that the last year for the ATC200 was 1983 and as far as I know, they never had an ignition switch since they were pull start only with no battery. It it's a 1983, it's probably an ATC200E. If it's a 1984, it could be an ATC200ES or an ATC200M.

I think 200e it is chain sprocket drive, has high low. Does Honda still make the ignition switches for the old atcs? Can I hot wire the bike for now to get it running?

[Homeless Dave]

Hot wiring a honda is easy...i did a 125m that had no key. I believe the wire colors changed over the years but the basics are the same. All wires can be disconnected and it will run, there should be 4 wires. 2 of them are the engine ignition circuit, the other 2 run lights. I would take the old switch to a honda dealer and see if they could get you a new key.

[SteveRoll]

Hot wiring a honda is easy...i did a 125m that had no key. I believe the wire colors changed over the years but the basics are the same. All wires can be disconnected and it will run, there should be 4 wires. 2 of them are the engine ignition circuit, the other 2 run lights. I would take the old switch to a honda dealer and see if they could get you a new key.

Okay, will look into it. It needs a new switch as my last switch was corroded and now is completely apart / missing things

[ps2fixer]

Look up the frame VIN number and Engine serial number at the site below to tell us exactly what model you have.

http://atvmanual.com/honda/interacti...er-atv-and-atc

Different models and years had slightly different wiring, general rule of thumb for Honda 3 wheelers is green = ground, and if it has black/white wire, that's your kill wire. If it doesn't have black/white, then generally it's just solid black. Most of the 3 wheelers operate where the kill switch shorts the kill wire to the green wire so "hot wiring" them is very simple, disconnect the ignition switch and handle bar controls and kick/pull start it and it should fire. If not you have other issues most likely.

Ignition switches are not universal, wiring, sizes, and wire lengths changed. There's one switch size that's very common that might be labeled as universal, but there's no true standard for ignition switches and you have to figure out the wiring on the switch you have, and match it up with the wiring on the machine you have (sometimes changes year to year).

If you can get me the details on what exact machine you have, then I can help with actual wiring tips.

I modify ignition switches for different applications as part of my business, so 99% chance I have a ready to plug and play option if you don't want to mess with the wiring, just will need to know the year and model of your machine. Honda made something like 80 3 wheeler models (year + models counted) and roughly 30-50% of them had ignition switches. Also FYI, any machine with out a factory ignition switch can have one wired in, but it either requires a Y adapter or modification on the wiring (the old machines are pretty simple, the newer machines are not so easy).

FYI, Honda does make some ignition switches yet, but a ton of them are out of production for this era of machine.

If you have no luck with the VIN or engine serial, photos of your machine likely can get us enough into to atleast identify the model.

The 200E mentioned before is chain drive with high and low range, while the 200ES is shaft drive with high and low range. There were other chain drive models with high and low range too, but I can't remember all of them off the top of my head, only one I can think of is the ATC90 but that didn't have an ignition switch.

The headlight comment having only two wires is very odd, a ton of the 3 wheelers used 3 wire headlights, green, white, and blue and the handle bar controls had high and low beam.

Just to get an idea of the model options, here's 1983 and 1984 models.

https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda/atv/1983

https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda/atv/1984


If it's an 83 and has a stock ignition switch, it would have to be the ATC200E, for 84 stock machines with ignition switches are ATC125M, ATC200ES, ATC200M, TRX200, of those only the 125m and 200m are chain drive and a 3 wheeler, both I think have hi/low range too, both pull start etc.

If you have any issues with the vin decoder, let me know since it's my site and trying to keep it as accurate as possible.

[350for350]

Partzilla has a new switch listed for $64.44. It's not cheap, but at least it's genuine Honda.

[SteveRoll]

Okay thanks. I was sizing up the atc, it is a 200e with a 200m harness on it. the colors match the 200m however the engine and stuff is for a 200e with the high low gear.
Is there an upgrade option to put a rear disc brake on for these machines?

[ps2fixer]

The 200m changed wiring 84 vs 85. Easy way to tell is check the wiring the ignition switch plugs into. 84 has Black, Green, Red, and Yellow/Red, while the 85 is Black/White, Green, Red, Black.

If you have a multi meter, the switch you bought should have two wires shorted while off, and the opposite two wires shorted when on. The "OFF" wires connect to Black & Green for 84, or Black/White & Green for 85. The "ON" wires connect to Red & Yellow/Red for 84, or Red & Black for 85.

If you want to avoid that, I also mod aftermarket switches for those models so literately match up the colors and it's plug and play.


84 200m & 200e/200es - https://www.ebay.com/itm/192035280253
85 200m - https://www.ebay.com/itm/201745079896

Both are effectively the same, just the wire colors are the difference.

If you prefer OEM, the 84 200m one is still in production for the $64.44 price - https://www.partzilla.com/product/ho...aaf22d1ed390ae
The 85 switch is out of production, but you could use the OEM switch above, just have to use the right wires as the colors won't be correct. Here's a reference in that case.


85 200m harness -> 84 ignition switch
Black -> Yellow/Red
Red -> Red
Black/White > Black
Green -> Green


I have no experience with any disk brake conversions so can't really help with that, drum brakes have always performed fine for me plus they are sealed on some machines so water/mud doesn't effect the brakes.

[SteveRoll]

the harness has those exact colors you mentioned! Black, Green, Red, and Yellow/Red. Thank you. I will try wiring the cheap switch for the time being as this will be my winter project. I have been watching a man on youtube who modifies chinese wire harnesses on atcs as well. interesting stuff!

Also noticed on the wiring harness the headlight needs a ground wire. My headlight has only a blue and white wire coming out of it.

[ps2fixer]

I reproduce that headlight wire too lol. Also I don't bother with Chinese wiring, their wire is total garbage and that's not even looking at their ultra thin terminals that barely hold together. Anything I mod that originates from China I completely rewire. I color match everything to OEM so it's easier to trouble shoot down the road if there's ever an electrical problem (OEM wire diagrams are still accurate). Looks like I didn't make an ebay listing for the ground wire, so here's the 3ww shop link for it instead.

http://shop.3wheelerworld.com/index....product_id=424


Also I mod new headlight sockets, they aren't OEM quality, but they fill the spot fine.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/192777787408


Basically I make and mod anything electrical for 3 wheelers from just about any source possible (aftermarket, newer OEM parts, and some stuff I make 100% myself).

[SteveRoll]

I reproduce that headlight wire too lol. Also I don't bother with Chinese wiring, their wire is total garbage and that's not even looking at their ultra thin terminals that barely hold together. Anything I mod that originates from China I completely rewire. I color match everything to OEM so it's easier to trouble shoot down the road if there's ever an electrical problem (OEM wire diagrams are still accurate). Looks like I didn't make an ebay listing for the ground wire, so here's the 3ww shop link for it instead.

http://shop.3wheelerworld.com/index....product_id=424


Also I mod new headlight sockets, they aren't OEM quality, but they fill the spot fine.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/192777787408


Basically I make and mod anything electrical for 3 wheelers from just about any source possible (aftermarket, newer OEM parts, and some stuff I make 100% myself).

Thank you for help. I got the ignition wires up for now. Everything seems be working on the machine. Going to test for spark and see if it runs! What are common ways to lift the 200 model trikes? I’m interested in running a set of 27 or 28 inch tires.

[SteveRoll]

Thanks for all the help. I got the ignition switched wired up for now and the headlight works properly. The only thing major left to figure out is the no spark. Tail light works, electric start works, tried pulling the spark plug it was fouled and no spark. I’m going to get a few more plugs and go through the manual to troubleshoot. The carb needs to be cleaned too I would say. I bought the 200 off a old man who had parked it for x number of years

[ps2fixer]

I've seen cases where the engine didn't have spark while cranking, still doesn't make much sense to me, but for testing reasons it might be best to use the recoil when testing.

On the normal usage side of things, the kill switch and ignition switch can be disconnected completely to avoid them causing no spark (they are just a switch and they short two wires together to kill the engine so disconnected means it's in "run" state). To kill the engine, simply connect one of the two together and use the kill switch or ignition switch assuming you get spark.

If no spark at this stage, then it's down to tracking down a electrical related issue, wiring, or somehow something isn't wired up (look for splices, cut wires, electrical tape etc). In the ignition system section of the service manual, run through the ohm tests for the exciter coil, ignition coil, pulse generator. You need a somewhat high quality multi meter to test the low ohm readings when it gets around 20 and lower ohms. You can get an idea how accurate a meter is by shorting the probes together while reading ohms, it should read 0.0 ohms or very close. I've used cheap china multi meters that read 5-20 ohms with the probes shorted together, there's some things that can be done to make it better, but it basically boils down to poor/low build quality.

If all electrical ohm specs are within the expected ranges, you're down to wiring or CDI. If you know anyone with a similar machine, let me know and I can look up if the CDI will interchange w\o mods to test for spark, the biggest thing is having the CDI with the same connector, but the secondary thing is the actual pin out which did change on some models including some safety systems that may or may not trigger when swapped.

If you get this far and still have the issue, I can help you test the harness. Might be easier to perform the ohm tests again but directly at the CDI connector and any mention of ground use the green wire instead.

Something should clearly be out of whack if the issue is directly electrical related. There's always the possible mechanical related issues too, like the pulse generator gap being too large.


FYI, lighting, charging, starting, and battery are all 100% isolated from the ignition system, the only common part is the ignition switch, but electrically they are still isolated. It sounds like once you get the engine running, you'll have lights, electric start, and hopefully the battery will charge just fine.

Here's a very simple run down of how the CDI system works.

Exciter coil provides a high voltage AC power to the CDI box
Pulse generator (also called a pickup coil) tells the CDI box when to release the charge
Ignition coil takes the ~50-400v charge and steps the voltage to very high voltage (in 1000's of volts) to go to the spark plug to create spark.

The whole system effectively MUST have a common ground to the engine which the green wire in the harness is responsible for and generally has a ring terminal near the ignition coil or on the ignition coil.

As for safety systems, there are NONE on the 200E when using the recoil starter (it can be started in gear/reverse), of course the ignition switch and kill switch have to be to run or be disconnected. If you use electric start, the starter motor should only work while in neutral with the starter button pressed, ignition switch on. FYI, it is possible to crank the engine with the kill switch set to off.

Hopefully this gives you a good direction to go with the issue to isolate atleast where the issue relates to. Let us know what you find.

[SteveRoll]

I've seen cases where the engine didn't have spark while cranking, still doesn't make much sense to me, but for testing reasons it might be best to use the recoil when testing.

On the normal usage side of things, the kill switch and ignition switch can be disconnected completely to avoid them causing no spark (they are just a switch and they short two wires together to kill the engine so disconnected means it's in "run" state). To kill the engine, simply connect one of the two together and use the kill switch or ignition switch assuming you get spark.

If no spark at this stage, then it's down to tracking down a electrical related issue, wiring, or somehow something isn't wired up (look for splices, cut wires, electrical tape etc). In the ignition system section of the service manual, run through the ohm tests for the exciter coil, ignition coil, pulse generator. You need a somewhat high quality multi meter to test the low ohm readings when it gets around 20 and lower ohms. You can get an idea how accurate a meter is by shorting the probes together while reading ohms, it should read 0.0 ohms or very close. I've used cheap china multi meters that read 5-20 ohms with the probes shorted together, there's some things that can be done to make it better, but it basically boils down to poor/low build quality.

If all electrical ohm specs are within the expected ranges, you're down to wiring or CDI. If you know anyone with a similar machine, let me know and I can look up if the CDI will interchange w\o mods to test for spark, the biggest thing is having the CDI with the same connector, but the secondary thing is the actual pin out which did change on some models including some safety systems that may or may not trigger when swapped.

If you get this far and still have the issue, I can help you test the harness. Might be easier to perform the ohm tests again but directly at the CDI connector and any mention of ground use the green wire instead.

Something should clearly be out of whack if the issue is directly electrical related. There's always the possible mechanical related issues too, like the pulse generator gap being too large.


FYI, lighting, charging, starting, and battery are all 100% isolated from the ignition system, the only common part is the ignition switch, but electrically they are still isolated. It sounds like once you get the engine running, you'll have lights, electric start, and hopefully the battery will charge just fine.

Here's a very simple run down of how the CDI system works.

Exciter coil provides a high voltage AC power to the CDI box
Pulse generator (also called a pickup coil) tells the CDI box when to release the charge
Ignition coil takes the ~50-400v charge and steps the voltage to very high voltage (in 1000's of volts) to go to the spark plug to create spark.

The whole system effectively MUST have a common ground to the engine which the green wire in the harness is responsible for and generally has a ring terminal near the ignition coil or on the ignition coil.

As for safety systems, there are NONE on the 200E when using the recoil starter (it can be started in gear/reverse), of course the ignition switch and kill switch have to be to run or be disconnected. If you use electric start, the starter motor should only work while in neutral with the starter button pressed, ignition switch on. FYI, it is possible to crank the engine with the kill switch set to off.

Hopefully this gives you a good direction to go with the issue to isolate atleast where the issue relates to. Let us know what you find.

Well, I started troubleshooting and found some problems right away.I disconnected the kill switch and the ignition switch and no spark still. Tried different spark plugs as well. I noticed the pullstart tends to pull back on this machine. I tried the decompression lever while checking spark to make it easier to pull over. The decompression lever seemed to be stuck and then giving myself no compression. I took off the recoil and noticed the bolt that hold the recoil on was loose! and slopping around... not sure if that matters but i will have to correct that!