09 750 Brute force wont start

[dustrunner]

only 308 miles, ran great last winter, got salt on it so I washed it off and drove it to the shed, next day loaded it up and took to car wash and cleaned it better, then rode it to the shed. belt lite came on the day of my ride buy meh, 2 months later it wouldn't start = took the wire under the seat that you use to clear the belt lite and did that, still wont start = bought a couple used fuel relays but still cant get it to start,, Any ideas please ?

[Gabriel]

Got spark?

[dustrunner]

yes, doesn't appear to be getting power to the fuel pump as I bought a new one with no success. also bought some used fuel pump relays . but still no work. wtf

[oldskool83]

Check fuel filter..my kfx700 crushed one due to todays cirn fuel. $10 fix mine didn't start either one day.

[dustrunner]

I cant get 1 fuel pump relay to click, switch it out with another place on harness and it works . Filter looks good tho.

[ps2fixer]

Do you happen to know were a wire diagram is or a link to the service manual? No clue who makes the brute etc.

A google search netted this result, I don't see a fuel pump in it, so maybe it's the wrong model? It's for a KZ750.

http://www.classiccycles.org/media/D...f8ffffe41e.jpg

If I was there, I'd dig out the multi-meter and check if you have power at the relay, normally two wires are to power the relay switching action, and the other two pass though a connection. If you don't have power at the relay, then it's likely a fuse, wiring issue, safety system disabling it, bad switch somewhere in the circuit (maybe ignition switch?). I do better with the Honda models since wire colors generally don't change for the same connection etc, for the Kawa, you kind of need a wire diagram to follow the circuit. Not sure, but does this machine have an ECU/Computer that controls the fuel pump? If so, there's probably a stipulation on when it gives power to it and such (like at crank, and when it senses it's running).

[shortline10]

Kvf750
Electric fuel injection and their a PITA , fuel pumps are common to go bad , not sure if you’ll here a relay but you should here the fuel pump motor pressurizing when you first turn the key on .

[ps2fixer]

Found the service manual.

https://web.archive.org/web/20120904...-09_Manual.pdf

Page 74 seems to have the wire diagram I was looking for.

It looks like the ECU controls the fuel pump. Here's what should be connected together per wire (ignition switch on, run/off switch to run, etc)

Here's the two wires that makes the relay turn on
Fuel Pump relay Yellow/Red -> Run/Off switch Yellow/Red -> Ignition Switch Brown -> ECU Pin 8 White (it branches out to several parts, so thinking this should be the ground side)
Fuel Pump relay Brown/Yellow -> ECU Pin 30 Brown/Yellow (Since it's a direct run, I'd assume this pin should have battery power)

These are the two wires that get connected together when the relay is activated.

Fuel Pump relay White/Red -> Fuel Pump & Main Fuse White/Red. (This should be the positive wire for the fuel pump)
Fuel Pump relay White/Green -> Fuel Pump Fuse White/Green

For testing, I'd check for voltage between the Yellow/Red and Brown/Yellow wires at the fuel pump relay to make sure the relay is getting power. If not, trace each wire in the ohm setting to see where connection is lost (don't forget to test the fuses).

If the relay is working, then I'd switch to testing for power at the fuel pump, if it's getting power but not running, the fuel pump motor is bad.

[dustrunner]

im not good with electrical , if I short something out will it ruin things or will the fuses save me ?

[ps2fixer]

Normally fuses are going to protect the parts unless someone got in there bypassing fuses and such, kind of doubt that with a 2009 machine though.

As long as you have a basic understanding of how a multi meter works, you shouldn't have any issues, just have to be careful not to ground something to the frame or to other terminals. I suspect most plugs are shielded well so shorting out something is hard to do.

Here's a video to cover the basics of a multi meter, the circuit board stuff you can pretty much ignore unless you plan to get more into electronics. The amp readings can be handy, but I don't find my self measuring current often. The biggest two things you need to grasp is how to read voltage (DC in this case), and ohms, or resistance and the continuity test is just an ohm test with a beep/buzzer to let you know when it's near 0 ohms, or dead short. The multi meter stuff isn't too complex to learn, but the circuit board stuff that surrounds it can get complex fast, we are just looking at simple wires though and testing for yes/no for power.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF3OyQ3HwfU

[dustrunner]

DSCN2653.jpg At this setting I am getting nothing @ the white/red port, .86 @ the brown/yellow port, .90 @ the yellow/red port , and .60 @ the green/white port with key on. also noted the relay clicks when they is turned on.

[ps2fixer]

Hmm, that setting is 20v max DC, so should be correct for testing power. How did you hook up the leads, there's two main routes, put the ground lead on a known good ground like engine or neg battery terminal, and probe with the red lead like a test light, or test between the two wires to see what the relay sees.

I thought you couldn't hear the relay kick, since you can hear it click, it should be getting power to the relay.

0.x volts doesn't make much sense though, you should be seeing around battery voltage, like 11-13v.

Not sure how hard it would be to get to, but if you could get a reading across the white/green and white/red wires at the fuel pump, that would be interesting to see. Reasion I say to test between the two wires at the pump instead of the one on neg battery terminal route is because things can be switched on the ground side too. Like on a 200es the neutral safety is how the starter solenoid gets grounded to be able to kick on and make the starter run.

[dustrunner]

i just touched the red probe to the wires. before I did that I tested them with a lite and the only one that lit up was the red/yellow port. I had to unhook the connectors from the plastic under seat pan so I was not sure which relay was which so i assumed the one that didn't click was the fuel relay and my problem but after swapping them out with no change i thought the pump was bad . but after putting a new cheap pump in and that did nothing either i am stumped.

[ps2fixer]

I see, yea you have to have both probes connected to the circuit to take any readings, it can get some readings, can't remember what it's called, but I'm pretty sure it's like the wireless power Nikola Tesla was working with. A good start to getting the feel for the multi meter is taking a reading of the battery voltage, same setup as the video used on the 9v, just you'd expect around 12v.

Anyway, if I'm following along right, you had power at the yellow red wire at the fuel relay (with it disconnected and reading the pins it connects to). Makes sense since you hear the relay kick on. The switch side of the relay (white/red and white/green). Sounds like since you've already swapped out the pump that the pump isn't receiving power. The power source on that side of the circuit is from the battery. Basically it runs though the main fuse (30 amp), then through the fuel pump fuse (10 amp), then heads to the fuel pump relay, then to the fuel pump. The relay is basically just a on/off switch, so since you didn't see power at the connector, I'm pretty confident you have a blown fuse.

To electrically test the fuses, you pull them out, and use the ohm setting to take a resistance test across the two terminals. It should read near 0 ohms (dead short). If it's a high reading (rare), or no reading at all, the fuse is bad. Generally you can also see the fuse burnt out, similar to how a burnt light bulb looks.

Appears the fuse box is under the seat, here's a spot in the service manual that shows a photo of it (item C)






Also here's the section on fuses, looks like there's 4 in the box. Geneerally under the fuse box lid it shows which one is for what circuit. Worst case, test them all. If the screen shot is too small, it's on page 563 in the service manual linked above.




Another thing to be aware of, after you replace a burnt fuse, the new fuse could blow as well, since the old one blew for a reason. Possible the old fuel pump was starting to die, and was drawing too much power as an example.

Good luck, hopefully it's just a simple like $1 (or less) fuse.

[dustrunner]

With the multi meter ground on the battery I get .04 on red/ white, 11.74 on brown, 11.73 on yellow/red and 10.4 on green / white with the relay plugged in. also the fuses look and test good at .0 ohms