Help with 200s - Performance suddenly went to crap.

[1984 200s]

I need some expert advice. I took my 1984 200s out for its first real test this last weekend. It performed flawlessly -UNTIL I had it wound out in fifth gear at full throttle. It suddenly began to spit and sputter and seemed to lose all power. I was able to limp back to camp under its own power. Since this event, the bike idles just fine and will even rev fairly well in neutral, but struggles to run when in gear.

So far, I have:
* Replaced the plug - it was very dark and soot covered. Unfortunately, this produced no change in perfomance.

* Tried to check the resistance of the primary and secondary coil. My Craftsman multi-meter doesn't seem to be sensitive enough to get an accurate reading. I get an infinite result on the secondary which obviously is impossible since it does run.

* Tried to check the resistance of the CDI, but again the multimeter issue yields some pretty questionable results.

* Cleaned the fuel screen. No change in performance

* Checked and adjusted the gap of the pulse generator (was approx. .019" should be .012" - .016"). No change in performance.


Anyone have thoughts of what to try next? I would appreciate any suggestions.

[Nick_R_23]

I would try getting a good multimeter that works, theyre relatively cheap and a good one is well worth its weight in gold when you run into electrical problems.

Other than that, my money is on the cdi box going out. I know everybody says these things never die etc etc, but Ive had several go out on different machines and each time something different happened. The majority of them would still run, but make it difficult to start or have a loss of power. One of them wouldnt let the machine start no matter how much you pulled, you had to be already FLYING down the road and drop it in 5th in order for it to start. It would die out on top end too.

Might want to check the carb too, WOT gives dirt and dust particles a lot more opening to get in, especialy if you have parts missing or aftermarket stuff, like a filter.

One last thing Im just throwing out there- possibly an air leak? But I dont think it would be, since it would run lean and rev higher, correct?

Just some ideas to get you started, HTH!

-Nick

[1984 200s]

You're probably right about the multimeter. Mine was about $30 from Sears, but I have noticed that the Honda service manual specifies one particular type to use. I have a super nice Fluke multimeter at work that I may try.

As for the carb, I rebuilt it about two months ago and it has seemed to be great. I was in a very dusty area (where isn't dusty in West Texas, though?), so I guess it is possible that I sucked something nasty into it.

I hate to spend the money that Honda wants for a replacement CDI without knowing that this is the problem.

Does anyone think this may be related to ignition timing?

[rally4x4racer]

if it is related to timing it sounds like your advancer unit o nthe cam may have probs.

you said it idles and revs ok - but when it gear it struggles.. how good is the clutch?

you can get a cdi pretty cheap off ebay - i wouldn't buy a new one.

[200xman]

Did you check your air filter? A black plug sounds rich. If it's still the origional element it probably fell apart.

[84honda200s]

the last time i ran wide open in 5th on my s and it did what your describing it was 2 things. i blew out my brand new rings and my clutch was going bad. id do a compression test just to be safe.

black does sound rich but as long as its not real wet it will run pretty good. mine is running rich and it fires 1st or 2nd pull and runs solid.

[1984 200s]

Great suggestions guys - keep them coming.

I should mention that I don't think it is clutch related. It's the engine that spits and sputters when in gear that causes the lack of power. If the clutch were slipping, wouldn't the engine have to rev excessively high just to move? The bike actually performs best in the highest gear (resulting in lowest rpm).

I have worried a little bit that it might be rings or valves. I guess I need to get a compression tester and find out. My gut feeling is that this is an ignition issue. The way it runs reminds me of how my old 1971 chevy would run when the points fouled out.

I may check into getting a CDI off of Ebay. If it's cheap enough, it would be worth a shot. Does anyone happen to know if the CDI from a 1983 ATC 110 would be the same as this 1984 200s? If so, I could easily swap the two and see the results.

I have not looked at the air filter. I will do that tonight, but it was perfectly clean before the ride, so I'm not expecting to find the problem there.

[kwbyfrmhell]

I think I have about 10 extra cdis for the 185-200s I will test one out and sell it to ya for a 1dolla plus shipping, but it sounds like rings or carb, usually when these go out you get nothing

[trikes4life]

sounds more like carb, is it smokeing at all. I know when i have water in the fuel it runs like *Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited* under load. Check all connections, i had a piece of golden rod come up and loose a connection. It would idol, as soon as it moved it didn't run.

[kwbyfrmhell]

drain your float screw and see if water comes out or just straight gas

[Mastacator]

Have you tried reving it up to that higher rpm in neutral, just sitting still?
Sounds like its running to rich, as in too large of a main jet.
They sputter and sound like they are running out of gas at high rpm when the main jet is too big.
Plus you mentioned the plug being black.

to the board too!

[rally4x4racer]

good ideas.. take the air filter off (after you get it started/warm) and see if it revs cleaner. I did not get the idea it was rich because you said 1. it was sudden 2 you had to limp back - so i tossed the air/fuel ideas other than dirty carb. mine is running rich too and it has caused no probs. If it was compression it would have to be a major loss of compression (you should notice when pullstarting)

also, when i mentioned clutch, I was thinking sticking rather than slipping. If you engine does not run right under load it could be drivetrain resistance somewhere.

Diagnosing engine problems over the internet is like throwing darts in the dark tho let us know how it turns out

[Rustytinhorn]

I would take the carb off and give it a good cleaning once more, then blow it out with compressed air. Do a plug chop. When it runs rough, stop and pull the plug and see if it comes out wet. If so you are flooding.

[Vealmonkey]

Make sure that your vent in the fuel cap is clear and not clogged, maybe try running around with 1\4 tank of gas and no fuel cap and see if it clears up. Or maybe one of the jets is wrong, Your low speed jet might be fine but the high speed jet may be trashed, or someone drilled it out or who knows. Make sure you didn't lose a jet as in vibrated loose and fell out, it has happened. Good luck and keep us all up on what you find or rule out.

[1984 200s]

I have been fairly busy and haven't gotten to tinker much. I had time enough to try riding it without the fuel cap, though. It made no difference at all. I still plan to check it without the air filter, but if that does nothing, then my step is a compression check. I was thinking of picking one up at Harbor Freight. Does anyone have experience with their compression gages? I am not expecting anything overly great, but hopefully enough to determine the operation of the rings and valves.

To answer some of the other questions:

I have tried revving it in neutral. It revs fairly normally, but it does puff a little smoke with WOT. It did not do that before.

The jets have never been changed from stock as far as I know, but I do live at 3200' elevation.

When I had the carb apart last (about two months ago) The main jet was too tight to remove without fear of rounding it, so I would be shocked if it had vibrated loose or off.

As for clutch sticking, that could be a possibility. This does have two clutches. One for slip and one for shifting. The slip clutch is centrifugal. I supposed that that shoes could not be retracting.

I appreciate all the help and encouragement. Nothing worse than having a bike that won't perform properly.