Mini rcr e-3-wheeler

[ATC King]

These are already getting some promotion through Dirt Wheels Magazine.

Many comments on social media sites already seem to ignore some obvious issues, but this trike is being marketed on nostalgia more than function or value.


Here's what I've seen and noticed so far:

They're not in production yet and everything is preorder with a $250 deposit and estimated $6,000 price, which doesn't include taxes, fees (?), and shipping.

No production yet, no set price, and their yearly production estimates seem lofty in terms of actual sales. A deposit does not represent a sold vehicle, we've seen the effects of this all to many times recently and it's usually done to attract investors. I don't know where the company is getting the funds from, themselves or investors.

That's enough to scare me away to start, and there's some other things of concern.

There are basically no technical specifications on the website and only three pictures.

It's sold as and E-bike, which has been approved by the CPSC, the same government group that ban-ed ATCs. Now, people are already acting like the company has done something special to get a 3 wheeler approved for production, which isn't the case at all. There are already many electric trikes available, and some with more ATV sized tires than bicycle tires.

Being an E-bike, it has bicycle type pedals, is limited to 20mph, and only has a 750w motor. It is not anything close to a proper electric ATV or motorcycle, it is very much an electric bicycle in ATV form.

I've already seen a dangerous comment posted by Dirt Wheels.

"@hitorquemags

It's actually very torquey and loves to wheelie. It's GOVERNED to 20mph for e-bike classification. The aftermarket will have no problem getting a lot more performance out of it with a few electronic tweaks."

This isn't some typical ATV, it's only avenue for production was to be classified as a very restricted, regulated vehicle. You can't just go hopping it up an expect it to be ignored.
The company has already linked their product with classic ATCs, which you all know is going to draw attention from the wrong people. If they make it easy to modify these so it no longer meets legal E-bike requirements and people begin to get hurt or killed, there will very likely be a repeat of the 1980's lawsuits and subsequent business closure. The ATC stigma still exists today, there's no way of getting around that.

We've recently seen it affect some of the conversion trike businesses. It's naive to ignore that.



It's belt drive. Rocks and drive belts don't play well together. They can have nearly full covers to aid in damage prevention. The downside is a bulky looking, complex cover with multiple pieces, which is prone to damage itself.

Some of the terminology on their website seems poorly chosen, like the HUD. The instrument on it is most certainly not a HUD. I don't know if it's some brand name or other reason, but that bit rubs me a bit wrong.

Long travel tunable suspension? Compared to what? For an (estimated) $6,000, post the specs and let the buyers judge whether that's correct.

Tuned paddle tires? Can we just presume they're air adjustable paddle tires? The owner did make a comment on how the tires have their brand on them. That's marketing folks, nothing more. He can't be blamed for promoting his brand, but I don't see how that adds value to the product to match the total sale price. It's all very carnival barker sounding to me. If someone orders enough tires, the factory may work with them on specialized branding, but they're not changing the entire assembly line to produce as specific, 'tuned' tire unless it's a major global player with deep pockets. The R&D to produce a truly unique tire is...expensive.


Advertised range is always suspect on electric vehicles. Very, very few companies will post absolute minimum ranges. I understand, but that doesn't mean I'm satisfied to spend my money to have to find out. They say a "4 hour range", but what the hell does that mean. If it was a time machine, ok, I can go four hours, past or future, understandable and could be useful. That's not a distance though. 1,000 miles in four hours, or 10 miles in four hours? 20x4, 80 mile range, not a chance with that much rolling resistance and weight.

In one video, the owner says something along the lines that it'll carry a 300lb person. If someone that heavy is on it, range is going to quickly diminish. That's a bad idea to even mention something like that. Test your product, fully, and post actual, true specifications, for varying conditions. If you don't believe in your product and continue to sidestep the reality of what a customer is paying for, they're going to sidestep your product.

I think it's great when someone comes out with new trike products of any kind, we need that, but the whole thing feels like some corporate speak startup that's looking for an answer to a problem that doesn't exist. The owner may really feel inspired, and his heart may be in the right place, but there's a corporate type of disconnect that is all too prevalent now, like these are the people whose lives have been far more comfortable than most others, but that's the group they're trying to sell their product to.


"REVIVING NOSTALGIA - ELECTRIFYING THE FUTURE"

That would be a great slogan for a time machine, not so much for a very limited use trike.

[knappyfeet]

Someone must have read through Sheps electric 200x & got an idea.

If it's not at least 3000 watts it may not be that impressive. My 3200-watt scooter....all things being equal.... will keep up & maybe pull ahead against my 1975 CB125S....which isn't running as good as say a new Monkey. It still pulls nicely but seems unstable after 30 mph.

That said...still it sounds different. 20mph on ballon tires conjures up the accidents of the 80s in my mind.




Edit......at least you'll be able to ride it at the park or playground or sidewalks without worrying about the fuzz.

Edit again......my scooter is 3200 watts not 6000.

[ATC King]

Someone must have read through Sheps electric 200x & got an idea.

I'm sure his build inspired some others.

The E-trike builder said he done it because the ATC70s he was looking at were too expensive. I'm not convinced that makes any sense, but then again, he's part owner of SandCraft, which is the hot spot for people with $50,000+ UTVs. Maybe he was talking about those full custom $6,000 ATC70 builds.

A whole different world away from the average person. Maybe their customer demographic is large enough to support them, but I don't think it'll work for very long. Those types like to follow trends, because they're financially able to do so, but trends don't last.

I'm not a Dirt Wheels reader, so I'm not used to how they normally operate, but their articles on this trike reek of the typical slimy, untrustworthy motojournalism.

They rode pre-production models for a handful of hours and as all-too-common in motojournalism, only had good things to say.

Their titles, while accurate, are very misleading. '50-State Legal', 'Street Legal', makes it seem like a street legal ATV, which is certainly isn't. It's street legal in the same sense an off-road mobility scooter is an OHV. It's an E-bike, which if it's compliant with a certain class, is street legal, the exact same way a bicycle is street legal. Nobody is advertising their bicycles as 50-state street legal, although they technically are.

The legality is void once it's able to achieve speeds higher than the class it's limited to. There are very serious reasons why license and insurance are required on vehicles capable of higher speeds. That is not new, those types of laws have been in place for over a half-century. That was the reason for the invention of the moped, to be classified as a bicycle so insurance and registration weren't required. To do that, they were limited to a certain engine size and max speed, and had bicycle cranks. The bicycle cranks disappeared later on 'nopeds'.

Those were specifically intended for lower income workers, so they had an affordable form of motorized transportation and could be more productive.

I did discover a bit more about their 'tuned' paddle tires. It would have been nice if they didn't post vague info with catchy terms. SandCraft makes their own sand tires. Now, I've never seen a small production tire facility and don't know how they 'build' them, but I've worked in the large ones, like GoodYear. I'm guessing the process to build an ATV/UTV sand tire carcass isn't as involved as automotive tires, or they buy the raw carcass and finish it out themselves. I have no idea, wish I did. Best that I can tell, they attach the paddles, they aren't molded in. What they do is 'tune' the paddle shape and size based on the power and weight of the vehicle they're going on, which they say on the SandCraft site.

Maybe the don't want to suggest there's a link between the electric trike and SandCraft, maybe there's not a link at all, but put some dang real info in the specs. If I'm in the market for a vehicle, I'm going to dig and find out all I can, which also means I'm not a early adopter, I'll wait for actual customer reviews before spending money. It's too common, and accepted anymore for companies to treat customers as guinea pigs. I don't have the guineas to spend like that.


I'm sure people have noticed I'm not including links. Anyone interested in this trike can copy and paste the tittle in their search engine, I'm not trying to link them to this site, promote, or make it a lazy infobomb clickfest. They already have a rag doing that for them.



Knappyfeet, there's no way in hades I'd ride one of those scooters you have. My hands would be shaking like I just got off of a 200hp motorcycle. I have no qualms bouncing around on balloon tires, but I stuffed it real good once on a pocket rocket and that was the last time this adult rode a child sized vehicle. I'm sure those things are a hoot, but the mental image of me, it, and a pothole tangling is something I can't shake. It's the little things that often scare people, and I'm scared to death of little wheels. Even on a bicycle I'm laser scanning for minor road irregularities and drainage grates are nightmare fuel.

Maybe you have good roads, but our gravel roads are usually smoother than the paved ones. Heck, they even get manicured by a very nice, newer grader. The paved ones just get ed to dog doo and occasionally a shovel full of cold mix thrown in the holes.

[Shep1970]

These scooter things, well never saw myself getting one.... started with 350w one then another w/ a bigger battery (longer range) then my most recent purchase a 500w 42v with even a bigger battery. No suspension to recent full suspension which is my goto one it rides so much smoother.
My sons car alternator died last wk so i made the trip down to Fla fixed it the first day in an autozone parking lot (boy that was not fun)
These scooters things are great (son goes to go work i go scooting) "Exploring" i tell my wife im alligator hunting... had mine going 25mph (phone gps) think thats as fast as id want to go on them-
Life starts again next week when i gotta go back to work in MA. Still undecided to make the move here-
i'll have to search around for them 3-wheeler your talking about king.

hope everyones doing ok.....




oh and this is our new kitten....actually got 2 brother and a sister-

shep


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[knappyfeet]

The first one I purchased was 250 watt....to see if we would even like one. That was $195 shipped. Nice little scooter....easy to ride and very tame. My only problem with it was wouldn't take me up any hill. Plus with the hard rubber wheels the vibration is unbearable in some situations

Then we picked up the dual motor 3200 watt for $770 shipped and there's no hill it won't go up and more important...the 10 inch pneumatic tires with suspension was like day and night. A lot heavier though.

Since my wife confiscated the new one for her (because it has the flashing LGBTQIA2S lights) im looking at a 6000 watt one. Not for the extra power but for the 11 wheels and the incredible range of 95 miles. That's better than some Zero motorcycles. At almost $1500 it's quite the leap in price but I'm sure not,as much as one of these e-3 wheeler

[Shep1970]

I have to agree on that electric three wheeler at 750 watts no way is that gonna be flippin around dirt hills, maybe crawl at 5mph cuz its geared way down in any sort of dirt, pulling the weight of machine plus rider that guy NEEDS to rethink the motor.


My newest one 500w has the 10" pneumatic tires with some sort of jelly filled puncture self healing stuff imbedded in tire.
I guess someday i'll see if it actually works.
Now...its probably on the tire sidewall but havent looked but i hear/have read they take 50lbs of air? must be hard to do cuz such small capacity of air?
Thinking pump em up to 55 then the bit that leaks out when removing chuck theyll be about 50
Im sure these are right off the boat from china so id kinda like to check what shipped out with. Or maybe i should just ride and forget it and its just me being anal about things? guess the first thing to do is bend down and try to read the sidewall.
thoughts?


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[ATC King]

I don't have one of those cool electric scooters, just this old Mongoose.

No kickstand, so had to prop it up against something for the pic.



Shep, you'll just have to look for the max pressure rating and go with that.

I don't imagine any modern tire being so cheap the max pressure isn't on the sidewall. Generally, the lower the internal volume, the higher the pressure, for the same weight rating. Hopefully, the wheels are rated for those tires, as in decent wheels have a listed max pressure rating too.

Road cycling tire pressures exceed 100psi because the volume is so small. For giggles, 18-wheeler tires have about the same max pressure rating as road cycling tires. That Mongoose scooter is made for relatively light riders and I think the max on those tires is about 35psi, again for giggles, 35psi used to be the normal pressure for older 15" wheel pickup tires.



As far as the producer installing a more powerful motor in that electric mini trike, I doubt that's possible because it'll exceed the legal limits for the e-bike class and they couldn't produce it. Besides, it's already an 'estimated' six grand. A play toy for people with a sizeable amount of expendable income. Everyone else would probably prefer to buy a 110 or other trike for that price and have something more capable that would also hold value better.

[knappyfeet]

Now...its probably on the tire sidewall but havent looked but i hear/have read they take 50lbs of air?

Mines stamped 50psi. I do the same but go to 60 instead. It dosent take much on that small tire to loose 5 psi

As far as the producer installing a more powerful motor in that electric mini trike, I doubt that's possible because it'll exceed the legal limits for the e-bike class and they couldn't produce it.

For road legal purposes its...750W tops in my state. Your right. But it's still going to be lame with those balloons.

I see 6000 watt mountain bikes all the time with pedals. For legal purposes, they are not street legal, but that doesn't stop all the rich kids from pulling wheelies all the way down the street on their way to school. At least they're off their flipping phones for a minute and experiencing real life

I know for my scooters the rules are pretty simple...no sidewalks, max 15mph, no doubles, 18 & under helmets, etc, etc.... common sense things. No watt limitations so I'm guessing as long as your cruising your Kaabo Wolf Gt Pro down the bike lane at 10-15mph its all good.

[legacy51]

While I agree that 750W seems a little weak and I am not a fan of how vague and "sales-y" the guy is, I think it's sweet that somebody is trying something. If it doesn't work, his loss not ours. I also know that the Dirt Wheels crew really wants to see ATV's make a come back (and so do I) and this is a step in the right direction. Getting kids and adults onto these might influence them to buy a new sport ATV and that's what we need. Between side by sides and youth not being interested in riding, our hobby is dying. That's bad for all of us because there are fewer people to fight to keep trails and riding areas open. So yes, I'm a little optimistic, but I do see some potential in the RCR trike.

[ATC King]

Valid points, thanks for that post.

Yes, there are very few young riders getting into ATVs since UTVs have become dominate. UTV ownership is much less attainable for younger riders and, to a large extent, much of the use sets a bad example.

I'm old enough to remember when responsible trail use was a big part of the ATV industry. That was also when a 300cc-350cc ATV was considered big. Everything is heavier and more powerful now, and add to that trail use has exploded while promoting volunteer work and personal responsibility is almost non-existent. People won't even listen to law enforcement if their behavior elicits and educational opportunity, they'll argue, gaslight, and deflect. Forget even politely suggesting their actions have consequences that'll eventually affect everyone.

Riding in a UTV without a helmet, as is the majority, is flat out scary. It's not just the chance of being ejected while not wearing a seat belt, it's the instant brain damage that's possible from even a seemingly mild smack against the cage they're riding in. Take the weight of the person, their acceleration, figure out the force on impact, and it's like being hit in the head with a baseball bat.

You're right, we need more young people getting into ATVs, but with the help of positive role models and an industry that promotes responsible trail use over selling vehicles with enough power to uproot trees and throw small boulders. There's no place for that on public lands and I'm betting they don't do it in their own front yards.