One way clutch bearing?

[Scootertrash]

Pretty sure I'm on the right track her, but just wanted to verify:

84 200S, when I shut it off there is a spinning sound, then a light "clunk".

This indicates that the bearing in the one-way clutch is toast, correct?

Been awhile since I've been inside one of these, just got my 200S back on the trails after a few years of sitting under the deck. Problem was there when I parked as well, so it's not a new issue.

Thanks!!

[shortline10]

Yes the one way bearing needs replaced .

[ATC King]

Yep, that be it.


It's real fun when they suddenly decide to let go while descending a step hill.

Even with good brakes the sudden absence of all engine braking is a pucker moment. A light throttle tap usually engages it, but nobody is thinking to tap the throttle when the trike unexpectedly freewheels downhill.


While replacing that, it's a good time to clean the centrifugal oil filter, which can have stuff really packed in there, needing to be physically removed. Besides the cover gasket, the oil cleaner gasket, the O-ring around the pump dowel (if I remember correctly), and the crankshaft end seal that goes in the cover, would be nice to have on hand in case they need replaced. By that, I mean they probably should be replace if there's no recent memory of doing it. Old rubber is unsafe.

I don't remember, but if there's a lock washer on the centrifugal clutch nut, it wouldn't be a bad idea to replace that too. They look like a flat washer that's a bit conical and have 'Outside' stamped on one side.

Thinking about it a bit more, because it's been a while for me too, the clutch basket may have to be removed. There may be a notch in it for the primary gear to slip past. I don't remember.

[deejaycee_2000]

Yep, that be it.


It's real fun when they suddenly decide to let go while descending a step hill.

Even with good brakes the sudden absence of all engine braking is a pucker moment. A light throttle tap usually engages it, but nobody is thinking to tap the throttle when the trike unexpectedly freewheels downhill.


While replacing that, it's a good time to clean the centrifugal oil filter, which can have stuff really packed in there, needing to be physically removed. Besides the cover gasket, the oil cleaner gasket, the O-ring around the pump dowel (if I remember correctly), and the crankshaft end seal that goes in the cover, would be nice to have on hand in case they need replaced. By that, I mean they probably should be replace if there's no recent memory of doing it. Old rubber is unsafe.

I don't remember, but if there's a lock washer on the centrifugal clutch nut, it wouldn't be a bad idea to replace that too. They look like a flat washer that's a bit conical and have 'Outside' stamped on one side.

Thinking about it a bit more, because it's been a while for me too, the clutch basket may have to be removed. There may be a notch in it for the primary gear to slip past. I don't remember.

I need to replace the one way bearing on my '85 Big Red 250ES soon, while I am in there I also want to replace the clutch plates, apart from the cover gasket, do you know of any other parts I should order that would be good to replace while i'm in there?

[ATC King]

I don't know about the 250ES, don't have one and haven't worked on any.

If you look at a parts diagram, it'd be a good idea to have any of the rubber type seals/O-rings on hand before starting, along with whatever fiber gaskets are needed. Looking at the process in a repair manual will also help.

A lot of it depends on your repair time frame. If you're in now hurry, stay organized with removed parts, take pictures of the process so you don't forget some of the minor stuff, then it's not so important to order parts before the job.

Even if that's the case for me, I don't like having something dissembled while I'm waiting on parts that I knew needed replaced. That opens the door for life to get in the way and sideline the project, while it's in pieces.

If you don't have much else going on, that may not be an issue.

I keep bags of new OEM small parts around, ones that are used the most during typical repairs and maintenance and it never fails that I'm digging into those parts and happy I have them on hand and don't have to wait. The price of having those on hand is worth the convenience.

[Scootertrash]

Yep, that be it.


It's real fun when they suddenly decide to let go while descending a step hill.

Even with good brakes the sudden absence of all engine braking is a pucker moment. A light throttle tap usually engages it, but nobody is thinking to tap the throttle when the trike unexpectedly freewheels downhill.


While replacing that, it's a good time to clean the centrifugal oil filter, which can have stuff really packed in there, needing to be physically removed. Besides the cover gasket, the oil cleaner gasket, the O-ring around the pump dowel (if I remember correctly), and the crankshaft end seal that goes in the cover, would be nice to have on hand in case they need replaced. By that, I mean they probably should be replace if there's no recent memory of doing it. Old rubber is unsafe.

I don't remember, but if there's a lock washer on the centrifugal clutch nut, it wouldn't be a bad idea to replace that too. They look like a flat washer that's a bit conical and have 'Outside' stamped on one side.

Thinking about it a bit more, because it's been a while for me too, the clutch basket may have to be removed. There may be a notch in it for the primary gear to slip past. I don't remember.

Spot on King!!

When I do any motor/tranny related repairs it's all new gaskets, o-rings, seals, etc. Doesn't matter if it's a wheeler, Harley, or vehicle,

The only thing worse than doing something once, is having to go back and fix something because you cheaped out.

[Dirtcrasher]

Wow, never had one let go on a steep hill but that makes sense and it would not be fun. Honda uses lots of these one way bearings in different models that are auto with electric start. I never had one fail onm a hill but that woudn't be fun...

I didn't know that they were used as a "drive" aspect, other that to turn the engine over, allow the starter to drive and start the motor.

Hopefully you can find a good one, be aware thet the I.D. of the housing it grabs upon has to be in spec or a new one will slip in time...

[ATC King]

That's a 200S Scootertrash is working on, no e-start.

All the auto clutch ATC models have a one way bearing inside the centrifugal clutch bell to provide engine braking.

I don't remember how the 125, 110, 90, 70 models are set up inside, since their clutch is designed differently and there's only one.

The starting mechanism directly drives the crankshaft from the left side, regardless if it's recoil or electric. The electric start models do have a one way bearing/clutch but it's only for starting and is out of play once the engine is running. Some electric start ATVs and motorcycles also have a torque limiting clutch to prevent damage if the engine backfires while starting.

That whirl and clunk sound they sometimes make happens when the transmission is in neutral while the engine is shut off. The mass of the clutch basket is still spinning but the one way isn't catching until everything slows down a little.

You pointed out an important but unfortunate aspect of these nearly being half a century out of production and now have few new parts available. I'm pretty sure the inside surface of the one way rides on the crankshaft and the outside, on the inside recess of the clutch drum, like you mentioned. There may be a spacer on the inside surface and it doesn't ride directly on the crank but I'd have to refer to a manual. The point is, there's more than one wear surface and even a new bearing may be a temporary fix, or no fix at all.

I bought one of the last new OEM clutch drums from Honda and should have at least bought a couple more once I realized how few were left. There has to be some forgotten, somewhere, collecting dust, but they're not coming from Honda anymore. Those drums are more often than not, worn out and a lot of it is from the people the ride around at too low of an RPM for the load, to high of a gear, and the centrifugal clutch is slipping more than it should, eating away at the drum and heating everything up. If anyone tries to ride a manual clutch ATV like that they'll notice it bucking around and drop a gear, or not, but that's not the case with the auto clutch, they'll blissfully leave in in second or third gear, stop, then take back off without shifting down. Poor, poor clutch can almost be heard begging for mercy, and all that debris is making it's way into the one way bearing, then on to other engine parts.