EFI on an ATC??

[Gabriel]

Anyone ever heard of Rolling Wench?

Just found this from last year. They're using it on a 150cc but no doubt a 200, 250 or even 350 could be built. If it doesn't cost a fortune, which it likely will.....this may be a very viable option for the carb stupid like me. The installation isn't that big a deal. Just making room seems to be the hardest thing. Doable with the right motivation.

Man, ohh man I would love to have this on well built 200 Honda!!!!


THere's actually several videos out there. I might have to look into this for an upcoming build.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5mREIojqi4

[barnett468]

There is no such thing as "no tuning necessary" with efi unless it is a self learning/tuning system. If it is not, and it needs tuning, you are screwed unless you can program/re-map the computer to alter the amount of fuel being delivered.

.

[Gabriel]

Agree. It needs to be like the Holley systems I have seen with some knobs on the control module for fine adjustments. BUT, unless you're getting into serious performance, a decently written program should be able to adjust ltself by reading the O2 sensor. .....I would think.


Either way, once the bugs are worked out, I would certainly be in line for a set up provided I can afford it. Sure would beat the shame of having to ask Yaeger to build it for me cause I can't seem to get it right. LOL!!

[barnett468]

Agree. It needs to be like the Holley systems I have seen with some knobs on the control module for fine adjustments. BUT, unless you're getting into serious performance, a decently written program should be able to adjust ltself by reading the O2 sensor. .....I would think.

Even the production ones on cars don't seem to do that which is why everyone buys chips or has their computers reprogrammed when they add high perf stuff to them.

Either way, once the bugs are worked out, I would certainly be in line for a set up provided I can afford it. Sure would beat the shame of having to ask Yaeger to build it for me cause I can't seem to get it right. LOL!!

Having him build what?
.

[Gabriel]

Stupid carburetor.
Carburetors seem to be the bane of my existence here lately.

[knappyfeet]

ecotrons.com

Do it!!

[RubberSalt]

Rebuild carb + set float height + set air/fuel screw + set needle position + cleaned needle/seat + correct main jet... beats EFI. EFI is nice for no maintenance, carburetor is better for performance.

To pull EFI off, youll need a higher output stator, fuel pump throttle body, fuel injector. You can build a set up for extra cheap using an arduino and some knowledge. It's been done.

[Gabriel]

Well, rubbersalt, maybe you're right and maybe not on performance, I suppose it invokes the law of diminishing returns. The 'potential' of EFI far exceeds any carburetor. It's also VERY dependent on what you're doing. I don't ride balls to the wall so max performance is lost on me.
max power and wide open throttle kinda go hand in hand and at wide open, EFI and carbs are really no different.
Trail riding, putting around and minimal maintenance is my game.

The versatility (again potential) is much more IF one (not me) were smart enough.
Look at the Dodge Hellcat. Valet key dials that thing WAY down, rev and speed limiter and all that. That's very useful. The drivers key will dislodge wisdom teeth. ALL that is done by the control module. That is really impressive to me and I wish I understood it.

The kits that are out now can't do that but it COULD be done theoretically and I think it would be awesome for a machine to tune itself depending on what's asked of it. Modern muscle cars are so smooth and efficient. An equal amount of power from say a carbureted BBC would certainly bang heads on the track but would NOT be as driveable for a beer/grocery run.

[RubberSalt]

Performance symantecs aside, the EFI can provide more features, like limiting the power. It's actually not as complicated as it sounds. For EFI, you need at a minimum, 1 sensor. Crank position for a 2 stroke. Cam position for a 4 stroke. The position will let you know when to start pulsing the fuel injector. Based of time between revolutions to the sensor, you can calculate RPM.

For a self tuning set up, you'd need a couple sensors. EGT and/or o2. and the cam position. The EGT has the benefit to tell if something is over heating within seconds opposed to being to late.

EFI is something that does interest me. I'd like to move into Programable CDI's, but that needs a crank position. The toys I play with don't have an absolution crank position. There are ways. I've sank a lot of brain power into this. IF you want to dive in, I'll tell you what ever you want to know that I know.

Arduino's can be a low cost($15) EFI controller + so much more.

[RubberSalt]

I made you a little picture to give you an idea o things. The arduino can effecively do 100,000 operations per second.

This is the tip of the iceberg for what these can do. I use these to run my 3D printers. Those are, at a minimum, 4 axis CNCs.

[barnett468]

Stupid carburetor.
Carburetors seem to be the bane of my existence here lately.

A child can rebuild a vintage motorcycle carb with instructions, but they need to be tuned for each particular range of conditions and engine mods etc which others can only make best guesses at without actually riding the vehicle.

I have tuned probably over 2,000 auto and motorcycle and atv and watercraft carbs etc, and part of my job at Kawasaki was determining the best overall carb settings for all the atv's and many motorcycles for production, and it can sometimes take a while to dial them in, but once you know a few basics, which most anyone can easily learn, it is much easier.
.

[RubberSalt]

Tips about carburetors -> avoid any thing Chinese. These will leave you lean and toasted. The orifices are smaller than the jets that flow to them. They can be modded, but only if you know the specs of a legit carb.

After you get your carb working, You'll need to make sure your not lean.

How to check if your piston is not being cooked.

Do a plug chop.

Before you make the plug chop run it is important that the float level is correct, the idle is set correctly and there are no air leaks(leak down test passed) in the system, otherwise the smoke ring may lie about the AFR.
WHEN ALL OF THE ABOVE ARE CORRECT PROCEED WITH THE FOLLOWING.
Warm up motor to operating temp.

Fit new a new plug(which ever the manufacture calls for), ride WOT through the gears and hold WOT in 5th or 6th gear for 10 seconds, or as long as you can safely.

Switch off the motor and pull in the clutch, apply brakes to come to a stop quickly.

Take the plug out and replace the old one for the ride home.

Carefully cut the threaded end off the plug to expose the insulator.

There should be a smoke ring of a cardboard or biscuit colour around the insulator.

If it is non existant or a very light colour, you are lean and require a larger main jet.

If it is a lot darker you are rich and may go down a size in main.

I prefer to run a little on the darker side, I may loose a little power but it is worth it for the peace of mind that I won't need a rebuild so soon.

You have to get up a reasonable speed so that you can get the motor to pull strongly.
Then hold it Wide Open Throttle (WOT) for 10 secs or as long as you can.
The idea is not to get speed but to make it pull strong at full throttle to get onto the main jet circuit.
I find I can safely do it on a short run by applying the brakes some.
If you have not enough room you can use 4th or 5th gear with good results.