200x class at the NEETD TT Nationals 2017.

[Mickey Dunlap]

Here's the rules for the NEEDT, just click on the link for the rules. It's a pdf.

http://ne-edt.com/rules.html

Here's the link to the rules discussion last year, 4th post from the bottom. It says clear as day, no limitations other than displacement, 200cc 2 stroke 350cc 4 stroke. No where does it say no strokers. You caused your own problem, don't blame Tim.

http://otc.myfastforum.org/ftopic1362-40.php

Thanks I found it. I had clicked on everything but the top part.

This is what Tim and I were talking about.

3 Wheelers Vintage A ( Age 14+) Trophy (NON Points- exhibition class) Must have 5 or more riders to run this class separately or can be combined with 3 Wheeler Open Class. Vintage A - Vintage means, "of the era", no modern motors or conversions, as well as upper displacement limitations on any machine to stock 250/350X cylinders with over bores. All machines should maintain the spirit of the class!

That's why I thought there were no strokers. But now answer me this, do I read into this that the 350x can be bored up to .080 over in this class but you can't bore a 350x at all in the lites class?

[86T3]

No, you're over thinking it. Over bore is ok in each class. I'll ask Shawn to add that to the rules if you want.

[Mickey Dunlap]

No, you're over thinking it. Over bore is ok in each class. I'll ask Shawn to add that to the rules if you want.

I just want the rules to be clear because they were not clear from what Tim told me. It says max cc 350cc. That can only be read as no over bores. Yes I want things to be very clear, I have never cheated and never will to win a race. But truthfully now, can you see where all this is messed up from what Tim said to what is posted. Now even you say I'm reading too much into this, you guys don't have well written rules. It was stupid the way I was being told no strokers before there was a lights class so all I had to go on was what Tim said to me and what the Vintage class rules said, of course I'm going to think you can only have a .040 over piston in a 200x to go up against 250cc two strokes and 350xes with .080 over. This is my whole point, where does a 200x fit into all this? It doesn't, and even with a super good built 200x and a good rider you see what HP does going down the straights, he was being pulled by 10 bikes or more. They just can't have a good class to run in, they need a class of there own and to keep it simple, no rules. Just run what ever 4 stroke 185/200 you want. It's so simple I don't understand what all this crap has been, other then I went to Shawn and everyone that thinks I had to do it their way got butt hurt, well grow up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jays375]

What ever gray area you want known it should be out there by now.You have brought it up numerous times.Things were explained everytime.The rules were made to keep things simple.Due to the fact originally only one class was was for points.So that is why it was made ooen.That way there no issues.Guess you are going for some fame next year.Don't want to be accused of cheating.That would be my guess.If you haven't realized already,attendance at races is tough for most.It's not like back in the day.

[86T3]

No Mickey, I can't see how a cc limit could possibly make you think strokers weren't allowed. In fact, I read the whole otc thread and no where in it does Tim ever say anything about no strokers in the Lites class. But, I did find something you said.

"As I told a few people last night I didn't want to be the one to go to Tim because I didn't want someone saying I got the rules change for me. I will build motors to follow what ever rules are made."

That's the first 2 sentences from your first post in that thread. It's kinda funny how you knew Tim was the one to go to last year to talk about rules for a new class but this year you didn't know. It's also funny how you didn't want to make it look like you changed the rules for your benefit, but that's exactly what you did. You didn't get your way last year so you went behind Tim's back this year and started your own class. That's chickenshit. Thats what a spoiled child does, youre the one who should grow up. And yes, I am "butthurt" about it. You don't know anything about trike racing now, if you did you'd know that skill level is the biggest advantage right now, not what you're riding. I won't go and say a 200x can compete for 1st place in open, but they are very competitive in Lites. You say Matt lost 10 bike lengths on the long straight, but you ignore the lap after that where he passed that 250f on the straight. Why can't 200xs compete in vintage a or b? Ditch won vintage B a couple years ago on a 200x. That wasn't good enough for you?
You showed up to 3 races in the last 2 years and act like you know what's going on, that's why I'm "butthurt". You even bugged the people building the latrobe track and gave us a bad name about that. You have no clue what's going on but insist on butting in. You can't even spell the name of the series right. Maybe if you got off your high horse you'd see what an ass youre being

[Mickey Dunlap]

No Mickey, I can't see how a cc limit could possibly make you think strokers weren't allowed. In fact, I read the whole otc thread and no where in it does Tim ever say anything about no strokers in the Lites class. But, I did find something you said.

"As I told a few people last night I didn't want to be the one to go to Tim because I didn't want someone saying I got the rules change for me. I will build motors to follow what ever rules are made."

That's the first 2 sentences from your first post in that thread. It's kinda funny how you knew Tim was the one to go to last year to talk about rules for a new class but this year you didn't know. It's also funny how you didn't want to make it look like you changed the rules for your benefit, but that's exactly what you did. You didn't get your way last year so you went behind Tim's back this year and started your own class. That's chickenshit. Thats what a spoiled child does, youre the one who should grow up. And yes, I am "butthurt" about it. You don't know anything about trike racing now, if you did you'd know that skill level is the biggest advantage right now, not what you're riding. I won't go and say a 200x can compete for 1st place in open, but they are very competitive in Lites. You say Matt lost 10 bike lengths on the long straight, but you ignore the lap after that where he passed that 250f on the straight. Why can't 200xs compete in vintage a or b? Ditch won vintage B a couple years ago on a 200x. That wasn't good enough for you?
You showed up to 3 races in the last 2 years and act like you know what's going on, that's why I'm "butthurt". You even bugged the people building the latrobe track and gave us a bad name about that. You have no clue what's going on but insist on butting in. You can't even spell the name of the series right. Maybe if you got off your high horse you'd see what an ass youre being

It's easy to sit back and say what "you think" I was talking about. This was "before" the lites class was in place, I pulled back and let it go, and then built around Tim's rules as I understood them. No matter what the rules are or become I will follow them. But me going to Shawn was because it wasn't about rules, I didn't go to change any rules, did I? I went to him with a growth plane to bring a class that is needed. Now that yet to be seen, I made no rule changes, I asked if there was enough 200x's at the races could we have a fair class that would bring closer racing, not for just one or two riders. Look at the things that were said last year when this was a 2 stroke 200 class vs. a 200 4 stroke class. We were told there were not enough of both to make a class. Fact is there were enough 200xes for a class of there own, between 8-10 according to you. So then we were told there was going to be this big turn out of the hundreds of Selves 200r come back to racing, and not one, did you hear that, not one of those hundreds showed up! So because of all that you have this class that killed any kind of a real chance for those 8-10 200 to have a reason to come and race. So let get over this and come together and see if I was correct last year and the year before. We already know the lites class is going to grow, mainly because I'm building 350xes. So when am I going to hear you crying about me making money in that class. If I was thinking in any way shape or form that I was going to make money on this 200 4 stroke class I would be boosting about it, but the only one I can say that is going to make money at it is Shawn. Go tell him he is only doing this for money. lol

[86T3]

This isn't 1984 with factory sponsored riders, 99% of the riders that show up knowing they have no chance of winning. But you don't come to these races so you donto know that. And the Hall's built a 200 2 stroke specifically for this class last year, so that's one right there. A couple 250f trikes came out also that weren't around the year prior. The Lites class will be killed by your dreamer class if it isn't protected, not that you care about anyone other than yourself. I'm done, I said what I wanted to say and showed how selfish you are. Besides, the only thing you prove by arguing with an idiot is that there are 2. Quit posting about this class till the rules are posted

[ctk]

Is their not enough interest for a 200x class only? Mainly stock, pipe and maybe the xr200 cam and carb combo and aftermarket tires and rear axle? I realize that these are old motors and have been rebuild so they are bored over but I'm still thinking no big bored or higher compression. Just thinking/wondering out load.

[jays375]

Sorry Chris there isn't a easy way to regulate it.Plus it isn't a points class.So it will be open.No holds barred.

[Mickey Dunlap]

This isn't 1984 with factory sponsored riders, 99% of the riders that show up knowing they have no chance of winning. But you don't come to these races so you donto know that. And the Hall's built a 200 2 stroke specifically for this class last year, so that's one right there. A couple 250f trikes came out also that weren't around the year prior. The Lites class will be killed by your dreamer class if it isn't protected, not that you care about anyone other than yourself. I'm done, I said what I wanted to say and showed how selfish you are. Besides, the only thing you prove by arguing with an idiot is that there are 2. Quit posting about this class till the rules are posted

You see it as selfish, you keep throwing things out there to see if they will stick but they don't because you are totally wrong, and I can say that 100% because only me and God and those with common sense know my heart. The thing you keep going back to is this isn't 30 years ago, but I say we learn from our past, and I was there right at the top of thing racing and living it with my father in-law the biggest 3 wheeler promoter ever! He made the rules back then and they worked, and as this sport grows it will work again, I think you want this to fail, you can't stand a out sider coming in with a good idea, but at the same time you never know until you at least try. Then leave it up to the people, haven't we learned that here in the past week? You may just have underestimated me, I went to Kawasaki and got them back into racing as a factory, the first factory to come back to racing since the ban of 3 wheelers. Then they paid me to be the race team manager. I have also put together the most professional / biggest race team in GNCC history, bring the Nasscar image to the sport back by 25 different high dollar sponsors that ran 8 page adds in Dirt Wheels at $20,000 a month advertising. So while you were out still riding out in the fields on your ATC I was out growing the ATV sport. Bad mouth me all you want but you can't argue with my history and what I have done. I think my past stands on it's own, but maybe you just don't really know me, so lets just see how it all plays out.

[Mickey Dunlap]

Is their not enough interest for a 200x class only? Mainly stock, pipe and maybe the xr200 cam and carb combo and aftermarket tires and rear axle? I realize that these are old motors and have been rebuild so they are bored over but I'm still thinking no big bored or higher compression. Just thinking/wondering out load.

It might not grow to that point for a few years, unless enough guys like you show up over the next few years, but I can see a 200 4 stroke pro class and a amateur 200 4 stroke class , more of a rider ability classes. Just show up and lets see.

[jays375]

Just keep showing up and getting your butt kicked.Now that is great advice.As far as 200x being the next big thing,doubt it.Granted it may be fun,only going so far.Time would be better spent promoting the sport.Keeping it going.Getting more places to race.Not just re live the past.That would be a much better thing to do.Not creating fame for ones self.This whole 200x class thing was done all wrong.Current racers should have been contacted.Ask their opinon on it.See just how many serious racers you could get to commit.Then if feasable,approach the series promoter.Let's hope not happens too the current racing.That would be a terrible thing.

[jays375]

Racing Pine Lake in 200x only class would be fun.Not going to deny it.A few of us have already said that.I'm currently building a 200x to run at Paradise.I probally will run the already established classes at Pine Lake.So rider count is kept up.I love to race,love to build.Going to the races is a blast for me.Drama is killing the sport.So promoting anything casuing drama is not for me.

[Tri-Z 250]

Wow interesting read, lots of advise taken as to positive direction to promote and move passed the nonsense, truly bad form on everyone.

Mickey has got a long road to gate a field of matched machines. I'd start with gaining interest, letting racers know that there is a New class just in time for next year. Clearly state the rules and proramitors of exactly what it is your tying to promote. I also would show a bit of graditude for the people willing to give you a chance at a requested special class. Graciously show the ease of their generosity and open door to opportunity this brings for guys looking for a match 200X class. I might go as far as to enter the only two indoors as get em out there to run openly amungst the crowd.

You have soooo many haters willing to track you down all over social media because you just can't help but take the bait. You derail the entire train by doing so and leads people away from the 80% I mentioned. This is a real TRAILPRO show of egos and not the attitude or demeanor that brought 3Wheelers back to the track. In fact you mix this with some drugs and booze at the track, welcome to the late 80's
It's tuff to read this and think this is what racing is at a National level. The people at the track and the atmosphere around it must SUCK! Why would I want to go to a National event as a Father and Son other than to experance this kinda of nonsense. I can't tell you what a better LOCAL scene we are so blessed with thanks to Sr.

So what if Mickey wants to do this Embrace it or don't run the class. There is no skin off the backs of anyone, other than the ones giving Mickey the room. Jay your nit picking roundabout constant hearsay who really cares but you and FB world of hate carring on is tiresome to say the least. I'm no smarter now than my last post. I'm still not sure why you care so much your reasoning is clouded. I can't tell from all the readeric but it doesn't sound like your running this class. So move on we got it, thank you for this. The 3WW just got better because of your diligent efforts to call Mickey out for wanting his very own class, you opened the curtain on ole' Oz-Dunlop. Not for just stating facts but adding all that color an venom. It really helps us all understand you two just a bit more. You guys clearly got it off your chests on this one.

I realize my post is an off topic observation. Listen can we please take this as a teachable moment. Can we possibly move toward a positive forward on this. Next time gentleman set pride aside, leave your baggage at the door, work toward the 80%. To be frank Shut up and Gate up if you can't go forward toward the 80%

[fabiodriven]

You are mistaken. The only person here with an ego problem is Mickey as usual. For some reason, every time, someone has to turn these Mickey battles into "everyone being at fault". Enough is enough. The man is a menace and creates these issues wherever he goes. Joe very clearly presented his side as he has from the beginning of this debacle and there are other people in this thread backing him up. I'm sick of everyone letting Mickey slide because he is Mickey and not because whatever he's doing is right.

Mickey has waltzed into a well-established series that many people other than himself have poured their blood, sweat, and tears into building from the ground up. Many of these people have so much more vested in this than merely just money, and Mickey thinks he's just going to walk in and say what's what? Not a chance.

No, I'm not a racer and haven't been, so your next step might be to tell me to mind my business. I'll tell you where I fit in to this.

After Trikefest this year we had some fierce fighting here on the boards. People have no problems blaming me and blaming the site, but very few people want to speak out about the true cause which is two fold. The first problem is Mickey Dunlap. The second problem shows up to the races in its own trailer. No, not a bike. His ego. The parallel here is Mickey came to ONE TRIKEFEST. He wasn't there very long and did not experience very many of the true grit events or places that define that event. Six years I've been to Trikefest with many other members having gone much more than myself, but we're not trying to change anything. We know what it is, how it ticks, and what makes it beautiful. Just as easily we can see what threatens it. Mickey is blind to these things, he's been once and not for very long, and he has no clue what makes it tick, yet after Trikefest he had so many ideas of how it should be run. It's not his event or place to even try and insert himself, just the same as this isn't! His ideas for Trikefest will actually BE DETRIMENTAL to the event, yet he insists. I'm sure this coming year he's going to do what he wants because even though nobody asked him and nobody wants him to, Mickey seems to think he knows what is best for all of us.

For the love of Christ, if you people still have not awoken to the detriment this man is amongst our community, please open your eyes soon before he does any more damage!!!

The problem is not "everyone here", the problem is not 3WW, the common denominator over and over in these situations is one thing- MICKEY DUNLAP!!!

I have taken my lumps over and over again for the sake of us all battling this guy and I refused to give up. I had no support, it was just me, but I know the difference between right and wrong and backing down is not an option in that instance for me. He has dragged my name through the mud continuously, yet everyone wants me to stop. I will never, nor will Joe, nor will Jays. You people need to open your eyes and realize that this man is a petulant child trapped in a fat old man's body who cries like the spoiled brat he is every time he doesn't get his way. Probably been doing it his entire life. There is no room for that at Trikefest and I'm sure these racers are not looking to take that on either. It's high time you people set aside your slack for this guy, which seems to be endless for some reason. He doesn't get any more slack, he doesn't deserve it, and he can cry and call on Jesus Christ all he wants because we're not his parents and we're not going to give in to the crying. (Cue the prayers by the way)

So no, these people are not a disgrace and the site isn't to blame. There's only one wrong person here and that is Mickey Dunlap. If it were anyone else who'd have tried this stunt it would have been squashed immediately, however Mickey has used his slack yet again, not for the best interest of all racers involved, but just to please himself. These racers were perfectly happy before someone came along and decided what they should do for them. It's not going to work that way and I applaud Joe as well as the other racers standing up to this child. It needs to be recognized once and for all who this child is and the messes he leaves in his wake everywhere he goes. He's not "taking the bait", these boys aren't baiting him. He's tying his own noose, he's flat out starting trouble! He started a class nobody wanted and he also started this thread. And you're faulting others for standing up for themselves?

Joe and your fellow racers, I applaud your efforts and stand by you. Together we can finally open some eyes to who this child is and why what he says should not be taken for gospel.