1979 ATC 110 with helm and son mods

[1979atc]

OK I have a 1979atc 110 with helm and son mods I was adjusting the valves to .003 and I rolled it over by hand and it lost compression thinking I bent the exhaust valve and I found out that its supposed to be set at.004 thanks to Joseph farrow I haven't adjusted it yet but think the valve is bent so if anyone has parts to fix this I'm very interested please let me know and PS this motor is not stock top end is different compared to a regular 110 I'm pretty sure it has over sized valves and a bigger cam so don't tell me to go get a stock valve to put in itcause it won't work I appreciate all the help and effort please let me know ASAP thanks!

[HairyJR]

Welcome to the board. Helm & Son were one of the premier hop up parts supplier back in the day. Missing the valve adjustment by only .001" will not cause the valve to hit piston ans bend. Have you done a compression check? or leak down test? LOL on the fix.

"HJ"

[1979atc]

No I have not and i have another 110 by the one I'm working on its completely stock and it feels like it has 0 compression compared to the stock one I hope I can find parts also

[HairyJR]

You're making the statement you have Helm & Son mods does that mean stroker crank, oversize piston and their aluminum cylinder, possible race cam and maybe oversize larger valves. Need to remove head and measure valves to get correct replacements. A couple people come to mind for possible parts, PM "jwheeler" and or "shortline10". I'm surprised no comments by other members. Add pic's if you can.

"HJ"

[lardog]

Waiting for some pics lol

[shortline10]

I tried to help but when he keeps asking me the same question 4 times in 4 different PMs I just loose patients . I told him to start a thread and MAYBE someone will help him .

You're making the statement you have Helm & Son mods does that mean stroker crank, oversize piston and their aluminum cylinder, possible race cam and maybe oversize larger valves. Need to remove head and measure valves to get correct replacements. A couple people come to mind for possible parts, PM "jwheeler" and or "shortline10". I'm surprised no comments by other members. Add pic's if you can.

"HJ"

[Joseph Farrow]

He has the bike that was on Ebay a while back. A 79 110 with 84-85 tank and fenders if you remember it. Nothing know about the motor except it has a H&S cylinder.

[1979atc]

Exactly thanks Joe I have no idea about the thing and ya it needs to come apart but I don't wanna be the to tear it apart with no parts what's so ever and the are pics on my profile of the thing and ya there was pics of it on eBay also idk you guys know about it so it would only help to know facts about the thing Joe is the one that really helped me out I get short line mike tried help in but ya I get it I asked about tips about what type of valves may be in it and other facts

[HairyJR]

Close up pic’s would help, looking at your profile pic shows me a really nice ’84 Honda 110, nothing else. We all must assume you ask the ebay seller for info with no knowledge. Any body could order an install a Helm & Son stroker crank, aluminum cylinder and cam with just minor mods. Because a repair shop needs special tools to install oversize valves with the added expense wasn’t commonly done. Hell I didn’t have them on the 205cc motor Lee built for me and I’m telling you it needed special extra machine work to install. As you and I have had PM contact too and determined the valve is bent, time to disassemble as it can’t be ridden in it’s present condition. Then correct parts can be purchased…..

"HJ"

[1979atc]

OK yes I get it I am just trying to figure out a way to do this the correct way not trying to make anyone mad and I can have the work get done trust me I'm only 15 and would want to get parts and everything and is it true that u can use hondabond and yamabond for base gasket and the head is lapped to the head? I just need to find out this before I can year it apart my dad doesn't wanna test it apart and can't put it back together thanks

[barnett468]

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15 years old, ok it's great that you want to learn about engines.

ok, to see if a valve is bent, you can simply put the piston on top dead center on the compression stroke . . one easy way for someone whom is just learning to do this is to remove the spark plug then put their finger on the plug hole and kick it over until air comes out . . then simply put a straightened coat hanger in the cylinder pointing downward and turn it over very SLOWLY until the piston/coat hanger comes up and then feels like it is just starting to go down . . You can also remove the ignition timing inspection screw and once you feel air come out the plug hole you can watch the flywheel rotate thru the hole until the letter T or F appears . . The T is top dead center . . The F is fire.

Then make sure both rocker arms are slightly loose.

Remove the carb and spray some carb cleaner in the port until you can see it, then simply let it sit for around 2 minutes . . If the level is the same, it is fine . . If it had a bent valve, the fluid will all be gone . . It possible that it has a tiny leak but it would still start and run with one.

If there is no leak then remove the exhaust pipe and do the same thing.

Use a paper towel to sop up any fluid left in the ports.
.

[1979atc]

Yes thanks you I did that earlier in the exhaust port tipped it on its bumper I'm sure that it iss bent but I do aprreciate the help thanks

[barnett468]

OK yes I get it I am just trying to figure out a way to do this the correct way not trying to make anyone mad and I can have the work get done trust me I'm only 15 and would want to get parts and everything and is it true that u can use hondabond and yamabond for base gasket and the head is lapped to the head? I just need to find out this before I can year it apart my dad doesn't wanna test it apart and can't put it back together thanks

its obvious that no one here knows what size valves are in it or what head gasket they used or what piston they used etc, therefore, if you want further help, you need to take it apart and get the measurements that people ask for.

its entirely possible that some of the parts they used were custom made and may need to be custom made again if a close replacement can not be found . . unfortunately, that is sometimes the case with custom built engines etc.

no you can not use either of those for a head gasket and i wouldn't use them for a base gasket . . you can make your own base gasket if needed and cometic or someone else can make you a head gasket if needed.

je can make you a piston and rings if needed etc.
.

[1979atc]

OK I did hear that u could cut a stock one bigger for the cylinder on the base and the head is lapped I heard and that a cb 550 or 750 would work also idk but I do aprreciate all your help

[barnett468]

He has the bike that was on Ebay a while back. A 79 110 with 84-85 tank and fenders if you remember it. Nothing know about the motor except it has a H&S cylinder.

Do you mean this one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-HONDA-A...p2047675.l2557

"VERY RARE.... This is a 1979 ATC 110 with 1985 plastic and gas tank the motor is a 1979, The motor has an after market cylinder 190cc made by Helm and Son out of Arizona, has a stage 2 cam and a stroker crank also made by Helm and Son and it also has an over sized carb, It has the trunk and above the trunk the seat cover is torn. The seat foam is perfect. IT has and K and N air filter, Also it has a super trapp exhaust."