First Time Rider
Arm chair racerNew to the board
I was out of premix that I normally use, so I bought Valvoline 2-stroke oil since I didn't want to wait for my other oil to arrive. Since I have not used this oil before, I mixed it to spec which is 20:1 for my 85 ATC250R. I know that 2-stoke oil is much better than it used to be, but I didn't want to take any chances which is why I mixed at 20:1. It seems WAY too rich. If anybody has used this oil before, what is a safe more diluted ratio to use. Thanks.
Roostin' Away
Arm chair racerRoostin Away
Go to 35:1 or 40:1. Barnett468 will inevitably write a novel about this oil.
1983 212x "Mickey Dunlap" Powroll TT Trike -Blue frame, Supertrapp (looking for a Powroll DD), WEB Stage II cam, Powroll 6mm stroker, Wiseco 10.25:1 piston stock bore, ported, polished, +2 Swinger,White low-pros and 250R front fender, BAPP rear shock, Powroll Decals, NOS Carlisle R/A's
Gone:
'83 185s, '86 200x, '70's Full Suspension Hi-Performance ATC RD400,
First Time Rider
Arm chair racerNew to the board
Thanks for the response. Is this a good thing or a bad thing? On a side note, this oil really wreaks. It reminds me of Yamalube R.Originally Posted by rg97
Power User
Roostin Away
Bahaha your telling me! I run it in my weed eater and 2 stroke tiller!
FACT ! I have no edit button
Arm chair racerThe day begins with 3WW
Hello nachop;
I don’t know what your other oil is but in case you didn’t know, one should not switch back and forth between synthetic and non synthetic oil when used for mixing with fuel to run a 2 stroke.
I have never used that oil and doubt that many here have that might see your post, so I simply posted some general oil info that I thought might be interesting and hopefully somewhat helpful.
As far as that oil goes, if you are just doing general trail riding and not going Bonzai at WOT, a ratio of 28:1 [32:1 max] is fine for your particular engine imo, however, if you do ride WOT all the time, I suggest running 20:1.
What is your current oil and mix ratio?
OIL MIX RATIO – Irregardless of many oil mfg’s claims, oil should typically be mixed at around 32:1 for a bike that will see occasional max rpms of around 5000. For bikes that see occasional rpms of around 8000, a mix of 20:1 is optimum. This is due to the fact that the higher an engines rpm, the faster the oil “passes” through the engine.
You WILL read anecdotal “proof” of people saying they have run their particular brand of "super special" rehydrolized osterated 2 stroke oil with prefabulated amulite and super nano thingamajigys at 10,000:1 in their 900 cc single cylinder stroker engine at 50 million rpm. I suggest you take these claims with a “shovel full of salt” as a good friend of mine says.
Have you ever used this oil?
If so, what bike/engine did you use it in at that ratio?
Did you race it or just cruise it?
If you have done none of the above, please explain what you base your ratio recommendations on.
OIL RATINGS – One of the original oil ratings for your bike is API-TC. If you see this it is fine to run. In general, any oil that does NOT say outboard or marine on the front or have a picture of a boat only, is fine to run. You CAN safely run outboard/marine 2 stroke oil in an emergency providing you run it at lower rpms.
OIL VS JETTING – Whenever switching oil brands and/or mix ratios, you should rejet your bike to maintain optimal performance and eliminate the potential for damage caused by incorrect jetting.
VALVOLINE 2 STROKE MOTORCYCLE OIL
Valvoline 2 Stroke Motorcycle Oil is actually a Sunoco Trademark. It is non synthetic, with no synthetic additives. It has a TCW-3 Certification [2 stroke boat engine oil] only. TCW-3 oils are “ashless”. Its formula is different than their TCW-3 rated outboard engine oil and is designed as a “multi purpose” oil.
SUNOCO OILS
http://www.sunocolubes.com/product/s...cle-engine-oil
Here's the link to the MSDS for Valvoline 2 Stroke Motorcycle Oil P/N 9993 which is on the Sunoco site and NOT on the Valvoline site even though it comes in a Valvoline bottle. Well ok.
http://www.sunocolubes.com/sites/sun..._12_1_qt_0.pdf
NO WARRANTIES OR GUARANTEES EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED WITH THIS POST.
Here's my avatar. I named her Bacon. Isn’t she cute?
Hi, my name is Bacon Aren't I cute.
Roostin' Away
Arm chair racerRoostin Away
In simple terms, heres what mike (barnett) said:
Run 20:1 if your bike will ever see wide-open throttle.
Run 32:1 if you cruise.
He did not ask what kind of riding you (nachop) do. That will help us determine. 40:1 is a bit lean and will have little to no effect, other than a minor gain in performance. Between 35:1 (my recommendation) and 32:1 (his recommendation) there is not really much of a difference. Both provide adequate lubrication.
The lowest I would ever run is 25:1, but you dont have to listen to me. Listen to the "head engineer"
1983 212x "Mickey Dunlap" Powroll TT Trike -Blue frame, Supertrapp (looking for a Powroll DD), WEB Stage II cam, Powroll 6mm stroker, Wiseco 10.25:1 piston stock bore, ported, polished, +2 Swinger,White low-pros and 250R front fender, BAPP rear shock, Powroll Decals, NOS Carlisle R/A's
Gone:
'83 185s, '86 200x, '70's Full Suspension Hi-Performance ATC RD400,
Trikein' Away
Lord of the trike
Dramatically changing the mix ratio is not a good idea tuning wise. Going from 20:1 to 40:1 will certainly affect the engine.
Power User
Roostin Away
There is some bad information being passed in here like every two stroke oil thread.
OP- get rid of the Wal-Mart valvoline and buy some quality high performance oil like 927, Golden Spectro, etc. Mix it at 32:1, jet it to that ratio and enjoy your machine. Do not change oils or ratios after that.
Joker 90
1970 Honda US90- aquarius blue
1981 Yamaha YT125
1986 Yamaha Big Wheel 80
1986 Kawasaki Tecate KXT500
1987 Kawasaki KXT250B2
2005 Yamaha YFZ450
Roostin' Away
Arm chair racerRoostin Away
Aaand the bad information is...?
Mike recommended 20-32:1. I said 35:1. You said 32:1.
Its a no-brainer that there is better oil. But sometimes you have to use what you have.
If it is rich now, it will need tuning anyways whether you leave it at 20 or go to 32 or 35.
Last edited by rg97; 03-09-2014 at 05:31 PM.
1983 212x "Mickey Dunlap" Powroll TT Trike -Blue frame, Supertrapp (looking for a Powroll DD), WEB Stage II cam, Powroll 6mm stroker, Wiseco 10.25:1 piston stock bore, ported, polished, +2 Swinger,White low-pros and 250R front fender, BAPP rear shock, Powroll Decals, NOS Carlisle R/A's
Gone:
'83 185s, '86 200x, '70's Full Suspension Hi-Performance ATC RD400,
FACT ! I have no edit button
Arm chair racerThe day begins with 3WW
Clarification of comment below.
Hello nachop;
As you are aware, not all oils are created equal, even though you did not ask for recommendations on which oil to run, below is a brief list of common high quality oils in addition to the ones posted by ezymoney.
Maxima 927 [from ezmoney post], 40% castor oil and synthetic blend may separate in temps below 35 degrees f. Recommended for higher rpm apps like racing.
Maxima Super M, low ash, std oil and synthetic blend.
Klotz Super Techniplate, 20% castor oil and synthetic blend. Contact for potential separation info.
My comment precludes the need to ask what type of riding nachop does. I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he can understand my comments along with the oil mfg's recommendations and decide for himself what might be best for him.
Post 2.
Post 6.
I’m sorry, I’m a bit confused. Can you please let him know which ratio you finally GUESS might be best for him now that you have read both my and DohcBikes posts? Remember, you can only pick one!
Will have little to no affect on WHAT exactly?
Where did you get this information?
Please post the links to any dyno tests supporting your claim.
I did NOT recommend 32:1 to him AND the higher of your original recommendations is 40:1. Again, please make up your mind and just pick one.
Adequate lubrication for what EXACTLY?
Since you have conveniently failed to answer even ONE of the questions I asked you regarding this specific oil,AND you have no idea what type of riding he does or mods his bike has, imo, it seems reasonable to me that you have absolutely NO idea what ratio will “provide adequate lubrication” for his engine.
Under which conditions would you switch from your 40:1 and 35:1 recommendations to your latest 25:1 recommendation?
I not only consider that one of the most intelligent comments I have ever seen you make, I also doubt that you will need to worry about many people "listening" to you after reading your posts.
As nachop is well aware, Honda recommends a mix of 20:1, but don’t listen to them, what do they know?
Oil mix ratio suggested by Honda in the original owners manual on page 11.
http://www.atcmanuals.info/
Rg97 has recently stated on the site that he is 4 ½ years shy of legal drinking age [16 ½]. Imo, his recent posts below to me on the thread listed below, clearly reflect a pervasive, abrasive tone and suggest a level of maturity that is often found in children well below his age.
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthr...?highlight=rodLOL
Trololloolol
And he didnt even pick it up
FACT ! I have no edit button
Arm chair racerThe day begins with 3WW
POST ADDITION
Sorry nachop, I forgot my avatar photo.
Hi, I'm a cute little baby fur seal until hunting season starts in around 2 weeks.
I have no edit button.
Roostin' Away
Arm chair racerRoostin Away
I thought that you might try and be the bigger man, but that failed. Strange that someone about 40 years younger than you can do that, but you cant.
I'll answer your questions but if you were hoping for a rebuttal to dissect I dont have it.
Should have clarified that I was talking about engine life, because a lean condition will shorten life span. Before you ask, I have no data to back it up, but it should be common sense to people like you and I.Originally Posted by rg97
and will have little to no effect…
Will have little to no affect on WHAT exactly?
Um well, The engine itself. The oil in the gas will cover the crank and rod bearings. 32 and 35:1 will both do that just fine.
Both provide adequate lubrication.
Adequate lubrication for what EXACTLY?
It will depend on the type of bike. ATC250r's were performance machines that liked to run. RD's, Banshees, Zillas, CR480/500's and other two strokes, performance orientet or not, may all "like" to run a different ratio.
The lowest I would ever run is 25:1...
Under which conditions would you switch from your 40:1 and 35:1 recommendations to your latest 25:1 recommendation?
Why thank you.
but you dont have to listen to me.
I not only consider that one of the most intelligent comments I have ever seen you make
****
The rest of your post was purely to show that what, people should not listen to a word I say? Your ad hominem (look it up) attempts dont phase me, and I could care less. Nobody is perfect, though some (not me) think that they are. You pull 2 out of over 1000 posts from myself (when I was in a very bad mood
If I were to try and do the same to you, it wouldnt work. Many times, moderators have REMOVED your posts because they were so childish and inappropriate that bans were about to be issued, so I cant quote them anymore.
****
ez, seeing as you are click happy of the "dislikes" button, feel free to do it here. You just dont like me!
Last edited by rg97; 03-09-2014 at 09:19 PM.
1983 212x "Mickey Dunlap" Powroll TT Trike -Blue frame, Supertrapp (looking for a Powroll DD), WEB Stage II cam, Powroll 6mm stroker, Wiseco 10.25:1 piston stock bore, ported, polished, +2 Swinger,White low-pros and 250R front fender, BAPP rear shock, Powroll Decals, NOS Carlisle R/A's
Gone:
'83 185s, '86 200x, '70's Full Suspension Hi-Performance ATC RD400,
Power User
Roostin Away
My lord. Arguing on the intrwebs is just so stupid it's like hitting my head against the wall.
Last edited by 90guy; 03-10-2014 at 03:31 PM.
First Time Rider
Arm chair racerNew to the board
Wow! Look what I started! Anyway, thanks to all for the responses. Barnett, you really have me thinking and a bit confused. I ride trails and dunes and do ride wide open on occasion, but only for short periods of time. I bought my 85 250R, brand new, back in 1985. The first oil I used was Bel-Ray MC+1. I don't remember the ratio or size of the bottle, but it was one bottle to 5 gallons of gas which I think was 50:1. I am the only one who has ever been into the engine. When I did the first top end job, many years ago, I was surprised at how clean everything inside the engine was and how little carbon was on the piston. The bottom end required nothing. A mechanic friend of mine said that Golden Spectro was also a good oil, and that it was cheaper. I ordered a case and I gave it a try (1 bottle to 5 gallons). When I finally ran out of it, a friend of mine gave me several bottles of Amsoil Sabre that a machinest recommended to him (and again, 1 bottle to 5 gallons). I recently performed my ATC's second top end job and amazingly, nothing was required on the bottom end and everything else looked clean and in good condition. Here is my confusion. All 3 oils had different ratios, and I never had anything on the engine fail. If I had mixed these oils at 20:1, I probably would have covered the nation in smoke and fouled more plugs than I could count. How has my engine survived for this long if I have never mixed at 20:1? Obviously, I have not ridden my trike every day since I have owned it, but it HAS been ridden a lot.
I'm the one with all the 2 stroke around here!
The day begins with 3WW
I own a 250r still on a stock crank and only 1 top end job. I have serviced quite a few that were still on stock cranks and top ends that were over twenty plus years and still running strong.
It is not uncommon for them to run that long. It is a Honda face it.
It is usually when people that are misinformed or poorly trained start modding them they become unreliable.
You are probably due for a clutch by now. Some free advice would be to pull the sidecovers and inspect your balancer bearing on the clutch side for play , and the crank bearings for up and down movement. The balancers usually get loose before anything and can cause all sorts of issues you may not be feeling or seeing. If those are good throw in some clucthes and new gaskets and keep going. Nothing beats stock reliability and components.
I won't get into the oil debate other than to advise , stay away from that Amsoil stuff. I have heard of more problems with that stuff than most and the 50-1 mixes are far too lean for my taste.
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