1982 HONDA ATC 110 <> MAKING ME PULL MY HAIR OUT !!! I'm so confused !!!

[ZZTOP]

I was recently in the hills of Tennessee. While out driving one day I drove past a barn and saw 2 old Honda 3-wheelers. So I stop at the house next to the barn and ask about them. Old Old man answers the door. He was in his mid 70's . I ask him about the 3-wheelers in the barn and he said " they been there 20 years ... the kids out grew them and we parked them and they have sat there since. One was a 1982 ATC 70 and the other one was a 1982 ATC 110 ... Covered in dust but MINT down to the tools , and still with the original Wamulass tires on them. They were Dirty but He hit them with a garden hose and They Looked Like New ! I bought the pair for $200.00 ... I kept the 70 in my shop cleaned the carburetor and pulled her once and she ran like a champ. The Atc 110 is a beaut ! All Original also ... Dark Red Plastics ... and that sharp BLUE stripe with 110 in it. But ... I THINK THE DAM BIKE IS POSSESSED !!!

It wasn't getting spark ... so I replaced the coil behind the flywheel. Got a big pretty blue spark now . Carburetor was crap ... Got a new carburetor. Got it to run and it idles fine. Will not take gas backfires through the carburetor ... I have even started it and had it run backwards through the carburetor . I finally got tired of messing with it so I took it to my friends atv shop. He takes the front plate ( ignition cover and inspection plate off and the timing chain is very , very loose. I told him to replace it. He did and timed the bike and set the valves and It still does not run. So we checked the electrical pick-up on the cam with an ohm meter. Honda book said 26 - 60 ohms I think ... Mine was testing 90 ... called a mechanic friend at a dealership here . He says it was bad so I found one on a 185 Honda that tested 29.5 so I figure it's good and get it and put it on the bike. I said now she'll run. HECK NAW ... Still not running ... backfiring through the carburetor, poping through the muffler . It hits and backfires but will not run ! By now my right arm looks like The Incredible Hulk's ... and my left arm is normal size.

We did a leak down test on the valves, they tested good, bike has 125 pounds of compression, valves are set on 5 thousandth's ... Carburetor is new, firing as it should, it's getting fuel and spark ... and it checks to be in time ... I HAVE NO CLUE ... AND MY BUDDY HAS BEEN DOING THIS FOR 20 YEARS ... HE IS BUMFUZZLED ... !!!

Sorry to ramble y'all ... Any input will be appreciated.

I honestly do not know what I missed unless the Pick-up on the cam shaft I borrowed from a 185s is producing a different signal or spark or something ?>

[wonderboy]

Does the 110 motor have the ignition trigger up on the head, at the end of the cam? If yes, you can adjust the timing by rotating the plate the has the trigger on it. Maybe the timing is way off.

Or, since your buddy replaced the timing chain, it would be worth confirming that the cam is properly in phase with the crank. If they are off, it sure isn't going to run very well. Also, confirm your valve lash is set correctly. If too tight, a valve could be hanging open slightly causing the popping through the carb.

[yamaha driver]

that should be the same. the valves are supposed to be matchbook on the 110s i thought?? would have to check a manual but i am pretty sure. idk if that would do it or not though

[ZZTOP]

Yes, the bike has the pulse generator on the end of the cam. That is what I borrowed from a 185s. they have different HONDA part numbers ... Could the Pulser Be checking Good and not be doing what it is supposed to for the 110 ? I mean are they model specific ? The air gap on the Pulse generator is set at 3 thousandth's ... I used to tinker with cars and it HONESTLY ACTS LIKE IT'S A ROUND OUT OF TIME ... I do not know if these little ATC engines can be a round out of time >? I am almost to the point of just trying to buy different engine ?

[wonderboy]

Just to be sure (since you were in there) check your cam timing. With the piston at TDC (flywheel on the "T" mark) confirm that the timing mark on the cam timing gear is centered at the top of the head. Also, as long as you have spark (check with the plug laying against the head) I don't think the trigger itself is the issue.

[ZZTOP]

I swear it's like it's a round outta time . I remember when I was 20 I had a Malibu ss with a spring mag in it. I was cleaning under the hood one day and I took the distributor cap off. When I cleaned the Rotary button I knocked it off. I didn't see what position it was in before it fell so I just stuck it back on. When I did ... I put it on a round outta time. It coughed and backfired finally when the thing hit it had soo much fuel in the heads it backfired so hard it blew the backs outta the mufflers I had put on the car 2-weeks prior ... This thing does the same way !

[EarlyBronocGuy]

Try a different CDI (ignition module).

I had a 150cc engine in a Carter Talon (one of those Chinese buggies) exhibit almost exactly the same symptoms - would start and idle OK, nice bright blue spark when I checked the plug, but try and give it gas and it would pop, hesitate, backfire through both the muffler and the carb, genrally run like crap. I cleaned the carb, set the valves, checked the timing, etc, etc - finally ended up replacing the CDI and problem instantly solved.

[ZZTOP]

I have 3 cdi boxes ... all are the same code on the rear ( 5 ) pin. Surely all 3 aren't bad ? Seems strange . I have never had this problem with a HONDA ... usually if they are getting spark and fuel a HONDA will run. That is why I buy every one of them I can find ! I'll swap em out again and see ...

[3wheelrider]

The pulse generator which is 2 main parts may have been seperated during disassembly & then put back together 180* off perhaps? Or the flywheel key could be sheared or missing(flywheel out of position)? Recheck valve & ignition timing.

[ZZTOP]

Flywheel key is good, Flywheel shows to be in time. I am going to re-check the timing tomorrow. Can the rotor be put on two different ways like a rotary button on a car >?
I am new to 4-strokes .... I only wrench on 2-strokes ! now I know why ... !

[3wheelrider]

The base 1st(inner) part of the rotor has to catch the tiny pin on the camshaft which should be at around the 11 oclock (cam lobes down). At the same time, the 2nd(outer) part of the rotor should be around 12 oclock (at TDC on comp. stroke & "T" on flywheel aligned). Sometimes the tiny pin comes out of the cam-check for it. Also, the 2nd(outer) part of the rotor will go on 2 ways but only 1 way is correct. The 2nd part can physically go on 180* off -but is not correct. Make sure it all
is aligns correctly.

[Xpress]

So a 185 cam pickup will work with a 110???

[daniel_250r]

x2 on the pulse generater. try rotating it 180 if you can? did this to a 185 that wouldnt run

[ZZTOP]

tried the rotor ( pulse generator ) no joy !!!

[3wheelrider]

Did you verify it all? or just flip the outer part of the rotor?