A little ice racing setup advice for a prospective new ice racer??

[RIDE-RED 250r]

OK, so before I clutter up Riverrat's ice racer build thread I figured I might post a thread inquiring on some setup advice...

1: tires... I'm thinking 18's, but I prefer to stick with my 9" rims that I have extra of, plus I don't want to gear down too much. So, anybody running 20's?

2: rear suspension... Not really looking to go all out and have my trike dedicated totally to the ice, so I'm thinking I can back off the pre-load on my stock rear shock to help slam her down a bit? Good idea? Bad idea?

3: Front suspension... I'm thinking about swapping in a set of '85 fork springs minus the short top springs to lower the front. Good idea/bad idea?

Just wondering if I'm going in the right direction. As I said, I'm not looking to permanently set my R up for ice as I do alot of riding on Tug Hill in summer. Just looking for some quick easy adjustments to enhance it's ability on the ice oval and have some fun with you guys at next years Ice-Fest. Any other tips or suggestions?

I know I didn't list studs, but that goes without saying..

Thanks..

[brapp]

well first of fmines a trail r i can switch over i run 18'ds and go up a tooth on the front sprocket. and if its a 250f be careful how low you make the front end the studded tire will hit the pipe so a 10 inch rim and a smaller front tire would be required.

[ringdingrider]

just a lil trick i learned from my pa. if you have a trail machine n just want to do a few laps on the ice and need to lower yer machine in the rear.....ratchet strap the ass end down. simple cheap and effective. ive done it on my trx250rs. and i dont remember what size tires i ran, but here they only allow trikes in the rubber classes so everyone would run the old pro wedges or now hoosiers seem to be the hot ticket.

you really dont need to change a whole lot on yer machine. just learn how it handles n how to use the powerband on the ice. setup is important but ice racin is won n lost by a how a rider handles his machine. so practice practice practice

[eddie pettengil]

Personally I think your going in the wrong direction. Here is why.
#1, go with the 18's, chin shin c826 are around $50 each, 8 inch steel wheels can be found for $25 each. The reason why, the 20 will give you less wheel spin and adds height to the rear.

#2, the rear shock idea works but you really are not going to drop it down that far. for about $60 you can get a lowering link.

#3, removing that top spring in the 85 forks spring is great for getting you low but, it has 2 awful effects that you dont want. Anybody know what they are?

for $250 you can be setup with everything you need to be competitive and low. if you want to just go have fun, leave it how it is and buy some 1/2 inch long studs and use them on any tire you want.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Thanks for the insight Eddie. $250 is actually less than I thought it might cost to "do it right" so to speak. This is the exact advice I am looking for! Thank you!

After thinking about your question on point #3 you made... My guess is one of the bad effects might be the fork dropping and slamming when in a wheelie? And the other possibly the tire being able to contact the fender when bottoming??

On the rear lowering link.. Am I correct to assume it is reversible for converting back to summertime gravel road riding?

[zmpolaristech]

Front end dive and all around lack of front tire traction...that's what results from a "soft" front fork spring setup.

Eddie is right thow, DEFINATELY go with the 18s, and preferably on 8" wheels. 8" wheels will allow more sidewall flex with the 18" tire, which equates in better drive, threw, and out of the corner. I run the C826s now, but when I started out, I was running a set of 18" duro holeshot ripoffs with 3 screws in each lug, AND IT WORKED JUST AS WELL AS THE 826s. For the front, just slide the forks up a few inches in the triple trees. Go with a lowering link in the rear, turning the spring preload all the way down (soft shock) will have neg affects as well, but stay away from the "ridgid strut" idea, I haven't seen that work real well for some others. Basically, just spend the money now...YOUR GONNA WANT TO DO IT AGAIN!!!!

[Bryan Raffa]

solid strut is the way to go on a man made surface.. dont care what the others say... they haven't been doing it long enough.. keep your suspension stiff .. until track conditions deteriorate.. helps on cross cuttin the ruts on a ass out track.

[zmpolaristech]

yup, that strut seems to be working REAL good for you Raffa...J/K

[riverrat]

We share our setups, team Greenwood Lake/Honda;

In the front we use 85 forks which have two springs, take out the smaller spring, and then slide up the shock in the triple
10" rim with 20" duro tire (or anything with a lot of knobs) in the front, or else you will hit your pipe with the studs after slamming it. See my thread about a 10" rim if you can't find one.
Out back c826's on steel or douglas blue label rims. As zmpolaristech said, you can use other tires, and they will work, but they probably won't hold the screws as long, and throw them because they are too soft. c826's are nice and hard (that's what she said)
To lower the rear get a dura blue TRX lowering link, and max it out. Anything else is probably unsafe, especially if you go off track and hit any bumps.
Up a tooth in the front, and down a tooth in the rear, and you can use the same chain
Extend your axle with 4" spacers, or get a durablue eliminator, or x-33. You can play with stagger, but I haven't found it to help.
Inflate your tires so that all the screws grip the ice.
One stud per knob is a good starting point.
I used 3m weather stripping adhesive on each screw to help seal them, but not necessary.
The direction of the screws matters. Play with it and let us know what you find.

DON'T EVER DRIVE YOUR STUDS ON PAVEMENT, ICE ONLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you do anything but this setup, you probably won't have a chance at keeping up, just speaking from experience.

[riverrat]

Oh and if you have 86 shocks up front, you can try and find 85 springs on flea bay, and just swap the springs.

Everything is easily reversible and you can go trail riding. Just swap tires, link, and extenders, and sprockets. You can leave the stock sprockets, but your top speed will be limited which doesn't matter on the track, only if you go for some top speed runs, or we make a mile long track or something.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Thanks again for all the input fellas!

Riverrat: I am currently running a Durablue Eliminator +4 axle.. Thanks for the advice on the front tire setup. I thing that problem would be especially bad with the ESR pipe I'm running. It's quit a bit bigger the FMF Fatty I was running...
So, for the front tire, we are talking more like a quad front tire in the 20" sizes.. Interesting.... I have noticed the Kenda Dominator holeshot wannabees seem like a pretty hard compound, as compared to ITP holeshots anyway. Those dominators seem pretty cheap as well, but tough to beat $50 a tire with what you guys all seem to recommend in the c826's.....I will look into the lowering link.

This is some good stuff guys. I have never raced anything at any level before other than some friendly recreational drag racing amongst friends and family.... Those ice ovals look like such fun! I actually got the kitchen pass from the wife to race! Now to get her on board to the goodies to set "Precious" up for the ice......

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Oh and if you have 86 shocks up front, you can try and find 85 springs on flea bay, and just swap the springs.

Everything is easily reversible and you can go trail riding. Just swap tires, link, and extenders, and sprockets. You can leave the stock sprockets, but your top speed will be limited which doesn't matter on the track, only if you go for some top speed runs, or we make a mile long track or something.

Yep, I have the 86 spring setup in my '85 forks.. BUT, my other project R is an 85 so I can just swap the springs between the two..

I will probably stick with stock gearing, unless I can find a case saver that can clear a 14t drive sprocket with the chain... I'm sure my 350 can pull the taller gearing, but like you say, the oval doesn't really call for it.

[just ben]

looks like you will all set up,well except for ice to ride on.

[riverrat]

There is another dynamic that happens using stock gears and smaller tires, and that is your gear is "narrower". If your are making a lot of power you want " wider" gear spacing.

[eddie pettengil]

yep, with everyone that gave out setup tips we only all agree with the c826, that might be where to start. 20 racers will have 20 different setups. Half the fun of ice racing is just trying to find that balanced setup. good luck