85/86 ATC250R Fork Disassembly Questions !!

[Jeb]

I'm cleaning up internals and replacing seals! :-D What's is Honda's Part # (I think it would be in the factory service manual) for the tool to reach down in and hold back up on the internal part that can spin when you try to take out the allen screw, or tighten it up? Can someone post a picture of this tool and what the end looks like? What methods have some of you guys used for holding backup on it when you didn't have this tool? I've dissasembled one of my good forks completely. I got lucky, the screw came out. The other fork wont. Plus i've got two other bent forks I'd like to tear down for parts. Any help is greatly appreciated!!

Also a fork spring question. I see on the bike bandit schematics that there are pictures of the main springs for the fork. One of the springs is in two pieces, one is not. I have the springs that are in two pieces. Is this part of the difference between 85 & 86? Also, were these two piece fork springs designed to make lowering forks easier? In other words, you just reposition the smaller spring and washer underneath the top out spring to lower you forks?? This has got to be what the design is for. What a great idea Honda had there.

One other thing. Please give me some fork oil recommendations and the oil level from top of tube. What is the factory weight? Should I go with heavier oil? Any info would be great!

Thanks!

[86250RZ]

Put Spring back into fork tube and have someone push on the spring for you, to hold pressure against bottom of fork tube. It worked for me. Yes there is a difference in the springs of 85 & 86R. 85 is 2 piece 86 is 1 piece. Not sure on your fork lowering ?. 85 uses 400cc (13.56oz) ATF fluid 86 uses 465cc (15.5oz) of ATF fluid. I used Synthetic ATF in my recent fork rebuild.

[Jeb]

Thanks! I'll give the spring idea a try. If I could get a pic or a good description of the end of the tool, I'll just make one.

Maybe the two piece fork spring idea wasn't such a good idea after all if they dropped it in 86! lol! :-D I figured 85 was one piece and 86 two piece. wrong! It's still an easy way to lower the forks cause you don't have to cut springs like you would on a KXT.

[250rAL]

Youv'e got it backwards RZ. The '85 has the single spring. I didn't even know there was a special tool. I just heated the bolt and gave it a smack with a and punch.
The 2-piece spring isn't to facilitate lowering, but it might work OK. The springs are just two different rates like the ones on dual-rate shocks.
The capacity for the '86 is 15.5oz. I don't know what they came with stock, but I run 10w fork oil. REAL fork oil will help your new seals last longer.

[Dirtcrasher]

Even with the spring in there sometimes the rod will keep spinning - I've always gotten them out with a airgun and an allen socket, by hand they just won't crack sometimes. Good luck!

[atc86r]

thats the first step for me. getting the allen bolt loose. you don't like lowering it by raising the forks in the triple?

[86250RZ]

After looking in my Honda manual I dont think they make a tool for that Jeb it states (Temporarily install the springs and fork tube cap if difficulty is encountered in removing the socket bolt). I didnt feel like putting it back together so I had someone force spring in by hand as I removed allen head bolt. Hope this helps

[Jeb]

There might not be a special tool. Kawasaki and Yamaha spec one in their factory service manuals for fork disassembly so I figured Honda has one too. I'm going to have to get a factory service manual soon I guess. Two forks are still on the trike so, i'll try to remove the allen bolts while they are clamped down in the triple clamps and the caps are on.

On the lowering, I'd say you've got 3 position adjustment on your front end height:

The top-out spring and the smaller main spring look like they are coiled from the same wire. So you've got the stock setup. Or you can switch the top out spring with the other main spring to lower the forks some. Or you can stack the other main spring under the top-out spring to lower even more.

I don't mind sliding the forks up in the clamps to lower. That's what I do on my Tri-Z. Internally lowering the forks is better though in my opinion. I'm not even going to lower this 250R, I was just curious if this is what was the intended reasoning behing the two piece spring idea. I appreciate all the info! Another benefit of having a 250R! :-D

[86250RZ]

Youv'e got it backwards RZ. The '85 has the single spring. I didn't even know there was a special tool. I just heated the bolt and gave it a smack with a and punch.
The 2-piece spring isn't to facilitate lowering, but it might work OK. The springs are just two different rates like the ones on dual-rate shocks.
The capacity for the '86 is 15.5oz. I don't know what they came with stock, but I run 10w fork oil. REAL fork oil will help your new seals last longer.

Well If Im wrong than every 86R I've worked on (3 different fork rebuilds) and Honda is Wrong and I dont believe that to be the case. Where R U getting your info. If you look In the Official Honda Shop Manual you will see that AFTER 85 was one spring not the 85, I know someone here can back me up.

[Jeb]

RZ, you've had no problems with the ATF? I've heard of it being used before. I've always used fork oil and I will again. just wanted to see what weights some of you guys are running. I'll go with the Fill Amount for the 86. Thanks for that fill info guys!

[200x Basket]

the 85 was 2 spring and the 86 was single sprine. jeb i have a honda manual with some extra grease on it. if you are interested PM me. like they said, put the fork back together and try the allen bolt with an impact gun. you may have to put oil and air back into it before you get it loose. taking that bolt out is always the 1st thing i do.
chris

[86250RZ]

Thats all I've ever used Jeb, Thats what the Honda Manual says to use, I just went one better and used synthetic ATF. I've thought about using heaver oil but I've never tried it, maybe I'm behind the times LOL. What are the advantages of fork oil. Ill try anything once

[TimSr]

The two springs was an attempt to have dual spring rates. I suggest considering progressive rate springs if you have about $80 to throw around. Fork oil has seal conditioners, and its easier to know whether you going heavier or lighter on it by the weight. Lots of guys have used ATF without problems for a very long time. Someone even once told me what oil weight it compares to, which is helpful. As far as going to heavier oil, it depends on what you wish to accomplish. Heavier oil slows compression and extension speed of the forks. Slowing it too much (too heavy) will give you an unnecessarily rough ride on all the smaller bumps. Heavier oil is a bandaid for excessive bottoming on jumps, but thats better adjusted with spring rate and preload.

[sandrooster]

My 2 cents.

I've rebuilt two 85R sets with new seals and fork oil.

First trike got 10wt belray 8yrs ago. Still works great with no leaks.
Second trike got 7.5wt beray. Again, no leaks after 5yrs of hard use. I wanted to see if it would result in faster compression and rebound action with the lighter weight. Most of the time I can't notice any difference between the two sets. But sometimes on high speed washboards, the 10wt forks seem to jump around alittle more. This is the handle bars jerking around more

I plan to use 5wt belray on the next 85R forks I rebuild.

[Jeb]

Thanks to All for the advice! I just turned my R into a fork allen bolt removal fixture! I set a crate under the frame so the front end was off the ground. I pulled the front tire & hub off. I put all the springs back in the fork legs and the caps on. I installed each fork leg, clamped them tight into the triples, installed the axle and tightened it up and bolted down the axle clamp and every one of those allen bolts broke loose easily. and that's just using an allen wrench, no impact wrench or air ratchet, not even a cheater. They were tight, but It didn't take 5 minutes to break loose the other bolt AND the ones on my bent forks.

I probably won't be jumping allot, so I'm thinking Bel-Ray fork oil. 7.5wt. filled to 86 specs. If I don't like that I'll drain and change the oil.

Thanks again!