81 or 82 250r woot!

[mohadib]

Howdy,
Got a 250r recently. I rode it once, it ran ok, had some power. THen it ran out of gas. It has not run right since. Can you guys tell me where I should start? I would like to get it hauling some butt. Here is a video I made of it today. If you skip to about 6:30 you can hear it running. It starts fine, but hardly goes. It has no power. Any help would be very welcome. Thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECD_9w7q9AY

[Lukeatc185]

you speak like i do. same patern and same cursing at the same time lol.

[mohadib]

hahhhaha :D

[Lukeatc185]

your going to get a warning from the moderators for posting a video with no helmet. just warning you. i got one too lol and i could not hear it even close to high rpm. make another video with a helmet. and hit it wide open. i was told these arent full of piss and vinagar unless your ripping it. my cousins use to wana stall when just moving around on it.

[mohadib]

ahh crap, it would only go 5 mph :D Thanks though, I'll keep that in mind for future pics/vids.

[joshco84]

i would put in a new plug for sure, and it the choke stuck on by chance?

Also are you sure your mix is right?

[mohadib]

Im not sure about the mix at all. I used 32:1. 92 octaine and Yamalube 2S. The plug looks new and clean, but I'll pick up another one. Thanks

[Lukeatc185]

yea in his video looks like he was intelligent enough to do the mixing properly. and by the sounds of it he knows what hes talking about. but its a two stroke not as torquee as a 4 stroke. but have much more top end. and it started up no problem after the first time. but its always good to have a few extra plugs on hand running a 2 stroke.

[joshco84]

a two stroke plug can look fine and still run like crap, they are cheap, buy a bunch.

i know he may be intelligent, and look like what hes doing, im not saying he is dumb. But i just wanted to ask him and make sure his mix is right. It is smoking a lot, which could be a plethora of problems, but too much oil will make it smoke bad.

[mohadib]

I appreciate the input. I'm pretty new at this stuff, so any and all questions are very welcome. I will grab some new plugs tonight. Think I can get that plug at an autoparts dealer? The Honda dealership is closed and an hour away.

Edit: Orielly (Checker) has it in stock, off to the store!

[Macs]

Please have a helmet on in any pictures or video. We like to promote good safe habits here for the whole community. We are trying to break the stereotype.

[mohadib]

Will do. Sorry about that.

Josh, the choke does not seem to be stuck. It's a bypass style choke, so I think hitting the throttle basically voids it out anyway.

[RodKnockRacing]

looks to be half way decent honda recommends 20:1 ratio but 32:1 should be fine. i always buy NGK plugs B8ES is the plug for the 250r. with new reeds it should be good also check the main jet size make sure its not to big that would rob power. good luck with it.

[Dirtcrasher]

If you ran out of gas - is the tank rusty/dirty at all? You probably suked in some crap to the carb.

Remove the carb, remove every jet, get carb cleaner, reinstall with an inline fuel filter, RIP IT UP with a helmet on and ENJOY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Vealmonkey]

Check the compression of course. But also check the exhaust port for excessive carbon deposits. Sometimes you have to clean them out and sometimes you have to de carbon the top of the cylinder. Also, If your exhaust pipe is all gummed up it will restrict performance. Make sure your airfiler is clean. Looks like a great start to a fun project. I love the fat tire 2 strokes.

[mohadib]

Thanks everyone. Just put in a new plug. Did about the same...but then!! It took off like a rocket after a minute. Then it promptly ran out of gas. This is similar to the first and only time before that it ran. Right before it ran out of gas it started hauling butt. Think this is a coincidence? Filled it back up and it ran poorly again.

I pulled the carb off today, the jets are nice and clean. I dont have any air filter on ATM, just the box and the metal element thing. The tank looks pretty clean inside.

I'll pull the muffler when it cools down. The pipe doesnt seat well at the engine. I can see a little leak there.

I compression tested and got 120. I'm at about 7K feet if that makes any differience.

Thanks for all the help!

Edit: thought i should mention I did the compression test while the bike was hot. THe manual says I should have between 142 and 165 cold...

[Lukeatc185]

try running it without the gas tank cap on.

[mohadib]

Good idea man :D That didn't do it, but I pulled the fuel line off the petcock. As soon as the bowl got low the bike took of like a rocket. It was great! So.. does this mean my floats are not shutting off or are adjusted too high? Or...???

THanks Everyone!

[1984ATC200S]

going off my ski-doo 2 stroke knowledge, it seems like its running way to rich, then when its runs out of gas it leans out and does the death rev? clean the carb, and double check your mix ratio, is my best advice. also wouldn't be running it outta gas often, no gas--> no oil--> no lubrication--> no engine

[mohadib]

THanks. Whats the death rev? It seems to pick up and haul butt right before it dies. The jets in the carb are real clean. Ill try playing with the mixture screw. I should also mention that the carb is not the carb the bike came with. At least it doesnt look like the one in the manual. THanks Again.

[1984ATC200S]

death rev, bike/sled, rev's really high rite before it seizes, blows the engine in other words, not good. also happens if there is an air leak

[mohadib]

Ahh, I have not experienced that yet. I played around with the mixture screw. Started with 2 turns out. THen slowly took it more out. Didn't seem to help much. Any ideas? Thanks!

[RodKnockRacing]

well they had 27mm carb stock it sounds to me like your running to rich my buddy had a 32mm carb on his 83 250r with a 210 main jet and it ran fine double check your main jet size if its to big it will run rich 2 strokes always seem to be pain to get tuned right but dont give up on her

[mohadib]

Thanks for the information RodKnock. I cant make out the print on the jet, so I'm not sure what size it is. Today I played with the needle settings and mixture screw. Seems to run very mildly better when I use the groove nearest the end. I have screwed the mixture screw all the way in and out and inbetween. Can't seem to get any improvements. Cleaned the jets again today too. Whats the purpose of the brass tube with holes in it?

Thanks!

http://papernapkin.org/pastebin/resource/images/imageEntryId/5839

[atctim]

For sure you are running rich. Take your main jet to a wire wheel and clean it up good to get the number off it. If the main jet is too fat (too big) it is letting too much gas come in and throwing off the air to gas mixture. You really need to know the size of the main jet - or you could just buy a new main jet stock size and put it in there.

By you saying "right before it runs out of gas it runs great" means when it is getting less gas it runs better. This tells me wrong main jet!

Looks like you are on the right track and doing things in a good craftsman like way - not doing crap haphazardly like we have seen here in the past. keep up the good work.

Oh - BTW you gotta get rid of those trial pros once you get it running good!

[mohadib]

Thanks atctim. I will brush up the jet and see what I can learn. I have a used carb from an 81 250r at my buddies. Its the stock carb too. But he is in jail for 20 days! It all started when he got a DUI on his Raptor I guess lol. Anyway, Ill checkout the jet and see if I can get in contact (no pun intended) with my buddies girlfriend for my carb.

Thanks

[mohadib]

Ok, pulled the jet off my blaster and put it on the 250r. Didn't change a thing. So I then put the blaster carb on the 250r. Took a lot of screwing around but I got it to work. THe machine came alive!! Hauls all kinds of ass! Doesnt seem to have a 5th gear though :\ Thanks for all the help everyone! BTW - What is the metal thing sticking out on the main jet of the 250r carb? Looks to block a lot of flow.

http://papernapkin.org/pastebin/resource/images/imageEntryId/5844

http://papernapkin.org/pastebin/resource/images/imageEntryId/5846

[MTS]

That piston looks Trashed, on the intake side from what i can see in the vid, looks like it has run a long time with no air filter,

[mohadib]

It had no airbox at all when I got it. No clue how long it ran that way :\ New news: I think I killed it! Wont start and only has 60psi compression. Was 120psi last night. Thinking the pistion or rings must have failed. I'll open it up tonight and have a look.
At least I got to have 20 minutes of fun first!

[mohadib]

Got the top end off. The rings and piston look pretty bad. What is the tool I need to measure with to find out what size piston I need? On the cylinder, am I just looking for scratches our gouges? Thanks

http://papernapkin.org/pastebin/resource/images/imageEntryId/5849

http://papernapkin.org/pastebin/resource/images/imageEntryId/5851

[jeffatc250r]

Did the crank bearing let go. Is the crank loose? Those gouges look like they were caused by chunks,......

[Lukeatc185]

if you only had 120lbs of compression. it was on its way out to begin with. should of been upwards over 160psi

[jeffatc250r]

Compression according to the honda manual calls for 142-165 warm.;) Also the heavy smoking and bogging could be from a bad crank seal letting in tranny oil,.....

[Dammit!]

http://papernapkin.org/pastebin/resource/images/imageEntryId/5851

What size jet was in the blaster? That piston looks like it was run lean. Far from the worst I've ever seen but looking around the edges, it got hot in there.

[mohadib]

I was wondering the same thing Damnit. I'll get out there and check the crank and jet size in a minute lol. All that kicking, once the piston/rings gave out, wore me slap out! What do you see on the piston that lets you know it was running lean? Thanks!

Edit: I checked the crank. It seems fine to me. The jet in the carb is hard to make out , but I think it says 100 on it. Does that sound right? I found two burs on the sleeve where my two biggest gouges are. Also, on the front side of the piston I noticed it has no groves at all around the top. The back side does. Is this normal wear? Thanks

[Dammit!]

I was wondering the same thing Damnit. I'll get out there and check the crank and jet size in a minute lol. All that kicking, once the piston/rings gave out, wore me slap out! What do you see on the piston that lets you know it was running lean? Thanks!

You can't just throw a random jet in there man. Guaranteed that blaster jet was too small. Too small of a main jet is the fastest way to ruin the top end (as you just found out, d'oh!). You can tell it was lean by the color of the piston. White is bad. That means HOT and you can see it was starting burn the edges away. I've got a 250r in the garage that I basically got for free because it was run so lean it burned a hole right through the piston.

There's a jetting sticky in the help section.

[jeffatc250r]

In my findings over the years, a lean condition will generally melt the exhaust side of the piston as it is the hottest. From that pic, with the gouges on the intake side, i think its a mechanical failure, could also be from eating crud from no air filter. Im sure the 100 main didnt help things out either. Not saying your wrong Dammit by any means. The cards are stacked against this thing with the blaster carb with the dinky main and no air filter. Heres the result of a too lean condition. The top part of the piston actually melted on the exhaust side.
http://i462.photobucket.com/albums/qq350/jeffsatc250r/DSC02961.jpg

[mohadib]

Thanks everyone. Feel kind of like a 'tard about now. But that seems to be my learning style, breaking stuff then fix it :D I'll get the proper carb, stock jets, new piston and rings. If there are any light gouges at all on the sleeve should i have it bored a bit (if possible)?

[Dammit!]

Stock jets aren't always the right jets. If anything has been changed that increases or restricts the airflow through the engine, the stock jetting will be off. Elevation and even humidity can play a factor too. Stock can be a good place to start but if you're running an open airbox or anything like that, you'll need to be richer. Spend some time reading up on the subject. Once you understand it, jetting is easy and will insure you're able to tune your machine correctly.

[RodKnockRacing]

hell my buddys piston shattered in the cylinder and the pieces jammed in the crank

[harryredtrike]

Check the compression of course. But also check the exhaust port for excessive carbon deposits. Sometimes you have to clean them out and sometimes you have to de carbon the top of the cylinder. Also, If your exhaust pipe is all gummed up it will restrict performance. Make sure your airfiler is clean. Looks like a great start to a fun project. I love the fat tire 2 strokes.

i agree,get right fuel mix with good fresh gas,clean out exhaust silencer with new plug and see.should be good,also make sure you reset the mix and idle screws to factory,manual on this forum,use the search above to find.