OK, here is my "honest" budget 350X rider build

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I have seen a lot of threads with "budget" builds and when i click on them I see a trike that looks like a showroom queen. There is always a picture of all the parts that "just got back" from the powder coat shop. Then it goes on to show all the performance upgrades and so on. I see those builds and say to myself, "this guys interpretation of "budget" is far different then mine".

I got lucky to find my 86 350X for $400. It was dirty and riden just as it was intended. I decided to take it all apart and clean it up, do some prep and throw on some paint. This trike has no powder coat. I wanted to do this as inexpensive as possible. Obviously, some items need to be purchased new and that can't be avoided.

The parts i ended up buying are, all the plastics, I put in new bearings in the front wheel, new steering stem bearings, new swing arm bearings, and a billet axle carrier. My triples where messed up so i bought a set from a board member. I bought the decals from another boardie. The engine ran good and strong and didn't smoke but it had a bit of an oil leak around the head cover. So, I decided to buy new OEM rings for it. I used a glaze breaker to clean up the cylinder a bit. Then i put all new gaskets and seals on the top end. I lapped the valves a little. And new valve seals. I bought a brand new non- O-Ring chain at the local Honda shop for $25 bucks. I should buy new brake pads but haven't done so yet.

Any parts i painted silver, i used a Pontiac silver that was left over from a friend who repainted his 2002 grand Am GT and he gave it to me to use. I used it for the frame and swinger. Anything that is black is high temp spray bomb (I guess it's better known around here as edog?) I understand that i will spend plenty of time touching up the paint but this IS a rider, not a garage queen.

One thing about the trike that disappointed me was how bad the frame ended up being. I did very little prep work to the frame. I just did a quick sanding and cleaned it a little and shot it with paint. The reason is, the previous owner was an idiot. The frame mount for the exhaust is broken off. One of the swing arm mounts broke so they welded it back up and it is one of the worst looking weld jobs i have ever seen. it's strong but it's ugly. I TRIED to grind it out but i couldn't save the ugly weld. One of the bosses for the foot peg was cross threaded so I had to address that. So, I know that at some point down the road when finances allow, i will buy a good frame, get it gusseted and maybe get it powdered. But this frame wasn't worth wasting my prep time on.

So, that is basically what I have done. It is now assembled but I need to get the brakes filled and bled still and I haven't worked on firing up the engine yet. Fingers crossed. I'm still praying that I don't have the timing chain 180 degrees off. I had a bit of a tussle with that.

I cleaned the wiring and took off all the old wore out plastic covering and recovered it all with new protecters. I think that's it. I estimate that i have about $800 or so total in this trike at this point. Now for a few build pics.

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Some more pics.

[Hoosier_Daddy]

And.........a few more

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Oh, I forgot, i also bought new moose handle bars, Oury grips and an inexpensive seat cover.


Fortunately, a couple weeks ago i got a seat for a steal of a deal and it is in immaculate shape, so in the near future i will do a quality seat cover on that seat and use it for this trike. That was unnecessary money but that seat was just too good of a deal and it's beautiful.

[3some]

Great thread! I love the true budget route. Looks good so far cant wait for more updates.

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Great thread! I love the true budget route. Looks good so far cant wait for more updates.

Thanks.:) Maybe when i get it running i'll make a short video.

[coldfuzion76]

Awesome. Kinda what I had planned for my 200x. Right down to the color choices, and even the tank sticker I had in mind. You been usin esp or something? :wondering :lol:

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Awesome. Kinda what I had planned for my 200x. Right down to the color choices, and even the tank sticker I had in mind. You been usin esp or something? :wondering :lol:
I only use my ESP on the ladies, my friend.:naughty: :lol:

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Here are a few more pics from more angles. The last one if you look close you can see the ugly weld job on the swinger mount.

[theiizz08]

Looks great man i love the black/silver its a sweet lookin trike .

[montess85]

how much you have into it total

[harryredtrike]

nice pick up for 400.00 .great job on the rebuild,i love the dark knight look.a 350x for 800.00 total that looks like that is a deal.nice job.

[Hoosier_Daddy]

The pictures I took last night were after dark and in the garage. I thought they seem a little dark so I pulled it out into the sun today and took some more pics that are better quality.

[Lukeatc185]

yea man it looks effing great. i love the black and silver too, i can honestly say its one of the best looking trikes ive seen.

[MonroeMike]

Looks great so far.

[hondahaulic]

looks great for 800. You could try to pull that seat cover tighter and re staple it if you wanted... maybe let it sit out in the sun first so its flexible or experiment with a heat gun?

[beets442]

Great job!:w00t: Black and silvers....Cool.... You've been at it a while now, I take it you got that top end dialed in?...."Long live the Knight rider "....Beets

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Great job!:w00t: Black and silvers....Cool.... You've been at it a while now, I take it you got that top end dialed in?...."Long live the Knight rider "....BeetsWell, apparantly I didn't get the issues figured out. I went out today to tinker with it to get it running and i couldn't even get it to try to fire. even with starting fluid. It was acting like it's not getting spark. Electrical has always been my weakness so i thought maybe i didn't get something plugged it or something. When i kick it, it feels like it has decent compression but I decided to do a compression test. 30 lbs of compression is all I'm getting. I don't know what i did wrong. I put the rings on exactly the way the manual said. I torqued the bolts in the sequence and ft-lbs that the manual calls for. So, I have no idea what kind of bone head move I did. Unfortunately, it looks like that top end is coming back off.:mad:

[NE250r]

Love that color scheme

[1985BigRed250ES]

Well, apparantly I didn't get the issues figured out. I went out today to tinker with it to get it running and i couldn't even get it to try to fire. even with starting fluid. It was acting like it's not getting spark. Electrical has always been my weakness so i thought maybe i didn't get something plugged it or something. When i kick it, it feels like it has decent compression but I decided to do a compression test. 30 lbs of compression is all I'm getting. I don't know what i did wrong. I put the rings on exactly the way the manual said. I torqued the bolts in the sequence and ft-lbs that the manual calls for. So, I have no idea what kind of bone head move I did. Unfortunately, it looks like that top end is coming back off.:mad:

Nice looking trike! I know how you feel about it not running. I have nearly finished my '80 110 and when I went to start it, it would only start on starter fluid and sometimes catch fire. It would not suck through the carb, so it went back to the shop two weeks ago to be fixed by the bone head that swapped the heads for me.

[200xfreek]

how ya post pics here? the killabites are too much for me to post

[Hoosier_Daddy]

how ya post pics here? the killabites are too much for me to postI use Photoshop Elements 2.0 and that allows me to set the image size and i can set the quality to lower the KB's. Photoshop is a must have for anyone with a computer. It's like duct tape, there's nothing it can't do. lol


If you don't have photoshop or another similar program, you can upload your pictures at imageshack and then you can use imageshack to host them. It's free to use.

[outtaline]

photobucket.com its free and easy Trikes lookin good Hoosier. Did you put the Top end back together 180 I've done it.

[codemanlyons]

Looks great Hoosier...you did a dam good job with only 800 into that thing

[Hoosier_Daddy]

photobucket.com its free and easy Trikes lookin good Hoosier. Did you put the Top end back together 180 I've done it.
I think that is a good possibility. Would that create a loss in compression though?



Looks great Hoosier...you did a dam good job with only 800 into that thingThanks

[outtaline]

That Would do it cause the valves are opening 180 when they should should be an easy fix . That looks great. I'm doin 2 budget builds right now auto x and 86 200x. neither will look that nice.

[Dirtcrasher]

Came out good, funny thing is it kinda looks like DEEPA's R :lol:

Anyhow:

180 out DOES NOT LOSE COMPRESSION.

180 out DOES NOT BEND VALVES.

Question - How many times does a piston hit TDC on a 4 stroke??

Answer - TWICE.

1) Compression/firing stroke. Call this 0 degrees.

2) End of the exhaust and beginning of the intake. Call this 180 degrees.

When you reassemble an engine, it's you that decides which TDC is correct by using the Tand either lobes up, or lobes down. If you could change the location of the pickup magnet, you could put either TDC at either place.

When engines are 180 out, that is EXACTLY 180 out, they fire at the wrong cycle. They fire at the end of the exhaust and beginning of the intake which is the wrong TDC.

So, they won't run and they load up with fuel and fart, cough and burp.

If you were say 120 degrees off, yes you can bend a valve or the valve could even be open when it should be building compression.

Are you now 100% sure the "T" and cam are in check? You don't have compression, it's not going to run whether it's got spark or not. Take it apart, figure out what you screwed up and put a dab of white paint on the T so your certain to see it during reassembly.

Bring on the people that disagree :D

[tri-Z ripper]

D.C. your advice is always top notch! great build hoosier and im sure you will figure it out!

[Bryan Raffa]

Came out good, funny thing is it kinda looks like DEEPA's R :lol:

Anyhow:

180 out DOES NOT LOSE COMPRESSION.

180 out DOES NOT BEND VALVES.

Question - How many times does a piston hit TDC on a 4 stroke??

Answer - TWICE.

1) Compression/firing stroke. Call this 0 degrees.

2) End of the exhaust and beginning of the intake. Call this 180 degrees.

When you reassemble an engine, it's you that decides which TDC is correct by using the Tand either lobes up, or lobes down. If you could change the location of the pickup magnet, you could put either TDC at either place.

When engines are 180 out, that is EXACTLY 180 out, they fire at the wrong cycle. They fire at the end of the exhaust and beginning of the intake which is the wrong TDC.

So, they won't run and they load up with fuel and fart, cough and burp.

If you were say 120 degrees off, yes you can bend a valve or the valve could even be open when it should be building compression.

Are you now 100% sure the "T" and cam are in check? You don't have compression, it's not going to run whether it's got spark or not. Take it apart, figure out what you screwed up and put a dab of white paint on the T so your certain to see it during reassembly.

Bring on the people that disagree :D



:w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t:

SPEAK IT BROTHER!! :beer

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Came out good, funny thing is it kinda looks like DEEPA's R :lol:

Anyhow:

180 out DOES NOT LOSE COMPRESSION.

180 out DOES NOT BEND VALVES.

Question - How many times does a piston hit TDC on a 4 stroke??

Answer - TWICE.

1) Compression/firing stroke. Call this 0 degrees.

2) End of the exhaust and beginning of the intake. Call this 180 degrees.

When you reassemble an engine, it's you that decides which TDC is correct by using the Tand either lobes up, or lobes down. If you could change the location of the pickup magnet, you could put either TDC at either place.

When engines are 180 out, that is EXACTLY 180 out, they fire at the wrong cycle. They fire at the end of the exhaust and beginning of the intake which is the wrong TDC.

So, they won't run and they load up with fuel and fart, cough and burp.

If you were say 120 degrees off, yes you can bend a valve or the valve could even be open when it should be building compression.

Are you now 100% sure the "T" and cam are in check? You don't have compression, it's not going to run whether it's got spark or not. Take it apart, figure out what you screwed up and put a dab of white paint on the T so your certain to see it during reassembly.

Bring on the people that disagree :D
I agree. That's why I wasn't to sure about the problem being the cam. I checked and double and even triple checked the T mark and i was fairly certain i had it lined up correctly because you gave me some advice and helped me out with that a while back in the thread where i was asking about it. But, that doesn't mean I got it right. It is entirely possible that i have the timing chian off by a tooth or two and i would assume that could create this problem. But, yeah, this top end is coming back off so i can get it figured out. I'm not in dire straights about this situation because i know the engine runs strong before i took it apart. I will find my error and fix it. All it's doing is delaying my enjoyment of riding it, when i had hoped i'd be riding it by now. I'll get 'er.

[Dirtcrasher]

Well..... It's just as important that AS you tear it down you see where you went wrong. Put that "T" in alignment and pull the rocker cover. Where are the lobes? Up, down or somewhere inbetween.......

Honestly, I always put everything at "T" in the firing stroke before I tear a motor down just to simplify the reassembly.

Either way, if your at "T" and the lobes are completely perpendicular to the center line of that cam albeit up OR down, then you got it set correctly.

What exactly did you do after Swiney called you with some sound advice?? I can only help if I know where it was at and what you moved to fix it or "tried" to fix it.

I only see 2 scenarios:

1) You were off a few teeth because you mistook other markings as a "T" and bent a valve.

2) You are off just enough that a valve hangs open at the wrong time and you cannot build compression.

BUT, if I recall correctly, you said somewhere in a post that you felt interference when turning it over by the kicker which tells me that you were not 180 out, you were completely off from where you needed to be.

AGAIN, let me remind you all that I bent the ever livin snot out of an intake valve when I "helped" uhmm cough cough a friend when I was about 17yo and thought I knew how to put a topend in. Looking back, I feel bad that I was overly confidant and screwed up the poor kids paper route influenced XR200 rebuild :(

I think I need to start a new thread here, then move it to World Class help discussing the 4 stroke, how it operates and how the cam, ignition and timing all relate to one another.

What someone posted here (and appears deleted now) is just one example, based on his statement of 180 out bending valves, I think we need a larger discussion on all this timing crap so people get a clearer idea whats going on inside our little thumpers :D

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Well, you and John basically had the same advice. And i can say that when the T is lined up the cam lobes are facing down BUT, I may have been off while finding TDC allowing the timing chain to be off a tooth or two.

If you remember back to my other thread asking for help, I thought the line was the timing mark on the flywheel. You guys pointed out that it was the T not the line. Then I fount the T and F and I lined it up with the T.

Also, you remember that there was interference with the valves and piston and that is true. However, i have also learned from my experience back in the day that I now never assemble an engine then crank it over with the kicker. What i did was use a ratchet on the flywheel and slowly turned the engine over to make sure there was no interference. This is the point i could feel the piston touching the valve. At no point did i ever exert enough force to bend the valve so i know a bent valve isn't my problem. I recommend that method of checking for clearance to anyone who does a rebuild.

But when I felt the piston and valve touching, I rechecked my T mark and cam position and everything was in proper position. Yet, I still had to back off the rocker adjustments to stop the piston from hitting the exhaust valves. This is my first attempt at a 350X so I just figured this might be normal because, like I said, everything was lined up properly.

With all that in mind, right now, I'm leaning to 90% chance that my timing gear is off a tooth or two. I'll have to reverse engineer my screw up to find out though. lol

[Dirtcrasher]

^ Hoosier, one or two teeth will not cause an engine failure with a stock engine. It may not run or may not run well, but it will not cause 30PSI to show on the compression gauge. You would have to be numerous teeth off to have a leak in the compression stroke.

30PSI is bad, very bad and can't mean anything good. Especially if the head and valves were leak proof to start with.

If this turns into a "do I have the right piston", "are the clearances correct", "did I set my rings right" - I'm truly gonna go out of my mind (Steve is angry now) :lol:

One easy test is the TBLSPN of oil test. Check your compression, then dump a TBLSPN of oil thru the spark plug hole (if you ask what kind of oil, I swear I'll hunt you down and kill you..) and recheck compression. If it goes up, you have a ring and or ring to cylinder clearance issue. If it remains the same, you have a valve leak issue. This is a 5 minute test which tells the basics.......

If you go to that motor now, line up the T and yank the valve cover, where is the cam at. Does it have 2 lobes hanging down perfectly centered like a set of hoots? or 2 lobes pointing up on center? Either way, it would mean that the valve timing is either dead nuts or 180 out. But neither of those situations would cause a compression leak. Only a lobe clearly rotated numerous degrees could cause this. OR, it was previously off too far and some damage occured.

What pisses me off about this?? If you guys lived near me, it would take me 5 minutes to find the issue. Doing repairs and troubleshooting over the net is decent at best. Allot of which relies on the person to be 100% honest about it all. Many people hate to admit mistakes, but if after you totally F UP something you gain a clear understanding of how it all works, then you have certainly gained allot and won't do it again :beer:

Follow the manual, triple check all clearances/gaps/tolerances and set the timing right or 180 out and nothing will get damaged aside from pride.

WHY is it that some of you guys can put fenders on, polish aluminum, spray paint your parts etc etc etc but you can't get down the rebuilding procedures?? EVEN with a shop manual??

I TRULY feel for you and wish I could be there to explain it and help get it done. The worst part is, I'm NO EXPERT! I'm just a guy with a bit of experience that has learned more from his mistakes than from his successes and I read and read and read, And from when I was just a squirt, I took lawnmowers from the dump and watched how they worked.

The big thing is just understanding WHAT it needs to work. That "T" doesn't mean CHIT to me. If you understand how things relate to one another, you can rebuild/time a motor without even removing those plugs. HOWEVER, If you rely solely on those marks to assemble a motor without a clear understanding of why they are there and what they do; how can you even double check yourself???????????????????????????

If you guys want to be your own mechanic and save the 75$ an hour, you had better have a fairly clear understanding of timing, "rough" jetting and bearing installation basics. Either that or until you learn, get some help, read up and ask ALLOT of questions :D

[SWIGIN]

wait...........it still dont run?

easy to read way to time a 350x...lol

1. piston at TDC with the T lined up on its grove

2. cam lobes down and line up cam sprocket marks (while the T is still lined up)

3. you are done

[Hoosier_Daddy]

wait...........it still dont run?:confused: I just assembled it over the weekend. What do you mean "still"? I haven't had time to mess with the engine to check for problems yet this week. Just discussing it for now until I get time to get back at it.


easy to read way to time a 350x...lol

1. piston at TDC with the T lined up on its grove

2. cam lobes down and line up cam sprocket marks (while the T is still lined up)

3. you are doneIt's also easy to go back to more then one post in this thread where it is "easy to read" that those steps have been accomplished.:)

The whole point here is, it is quite probable, that my issue isn't a timing issue. I may have put the rings on wrong (even though I went by the manual and THOUGHT I had them right) or maybe the shop sold me the wrong set.

The bottom line is simply this, the engine ran good before I took it apart. The ONLY reason I took it apart in the first place was to take care of a slight oil leak out of the rocker cover. I figured while I was in there I would put on new valve seals and later decided "what the hell, why not just throw on new rings for extra assurance".

THAT was my mistake. I am a dumb arse for taking a good running engine apart in the first place. I should have left well enough alone. Now, I don't know when I'll be able to have time to take it back apart to fix it.

[Macs]

i remember when all the builds on this site was low budget. Then slowly everyone kept one uping it until we got to the builds we see today. It is nice to see something that goes back to the roots of 3ww.

[racerxxx]

^ Hoosier, one or two teeth will not cause an engine failure with a stock engine. It may not run or may not run well, but it will not cause 30PSI to show on the compression gauge. You would have to be numerous teeth off to have a leak in the compression stroke.

30PSI is bad, very bad and can't mean anything good. Especially if the head and valves were leak proof to start with.

If this turns into a "do I have the right piston", "are the clearances correct", "did I set my rings right" - I'm truly gonna go out of my mind (Steve is angry now) :lol:

One easy test is the TBLSPN of oil test. Check your compression, then dump a TBLSPN of oil thru the spark plug hole (if you ask what kind of oil, I swear I'll hunt you down and kill you..) and recheck compression. If it goes up, you have a ring and or ring to cylinder clearance issue. If it remains the same, you have a valve leak issue. This is a 5 minute test which tells the basics.......

If you go to that motor now, line up the T and yank the valve cover, where is the cam at. Does it have 2 lobes hanging down perfectly centered like a set of hoots? or 2 lobes pointing up on center? Either way, it would mean that the valve timing is either dead nuts or 180 out. But neither of those situations would cause a compression leak. Only a lobe clearly rotated numerous degrees could cause this. OR, it was previously off too far and some damage occured.

What pisses me off about this?? If you guys lived near me, it would take me 5 minutes to find the issue. Doing repairs and troubleshooting over the net is decent at best. Allot of which relies on the person to be 100% honest about it all. Many people hate to admit mistakes, but if after you totally F UP something you gain a clear understanding of how it all works, then you have certainly gained allot and won't do it again :beer:

Follow the manual, triple check all clearances/gaps/tolerances and set the timing right or 180 out and nothing will get damaged aside from pride.

WHY is it that some of you guys can put fenders on, polish aluminum, spray paint your parts etc etc etc but you can't get down the rebuilding procedures?? EVEN with a shop manual??

I TRULY feel for you and wish I could be there to explain it and help get it done. The worst part is, I'm NO EXPERT! I'm just a guy with a bit of experience that has learned more from his mistakes than from his successes and I read and read and read, And from when I was just a squirt, I took lawnmowers from the dump and watched how they worked.

The big thing is just understanding WHAT it needs to work. That "T" doesn't mean CHIT to me. If you understand how things relate to one another, you can rebuild/time a motor without even removing those plugs. HOWEVER, If you rely solely on those marks to assemble a motor without a clear understanding of why they are there and what they do; how can you even double check yourself???????????????????????????

If you guys want to be your own mechanic and save the 75$ an hour, you had better have a fairly clear understanding of timing, "rough" jetting and bearing installation basics. Either that or until you learn, get some help, read up and ask ALLOT of questions :D

DC---Once again TOP NOTCH!

HD-- Also something else to think of--What's the status of your compression release??? I don't have a 350X but, looking thru the manual and rememebering your past posts mentioning the Decomp, just thought I'd bring that up. DC is the Decomp a possibility????? Just throwing Ideas around the campfire.Can It get assembled wrong?:idea:

[Dirtcrasher]

OK, the only thing that frightens me now is some talk about the rings.....

Quote from HD "
The whole point here is, it is quite probable, that my issue isn't a timing issue. I may have put the rings on wrong (even though I went by the manual and THOUGHT I had them right) or maybe the shop sold me the wrong set."

Cmon, now this is getting a bit out of hand. You were entirely confident of your rings before..... Your frightening me now HD......

Staggering rings is simple, the "T" is simple. Where do we begin to help you my fellow rider??

I'd bet even rings lined with all the gaps lined up would grab a bit more than 30 PSI there spanky.......................

I honestly feel like I'm getting more stupid every post I make lately........

Forestcrasher signs off.

[Erics350x]

Check the decompression setup, or bettter yet, remove the cable for now.

[Sargon2112]

Erics350x, you beat me to that! :beer

Yes, like the man said, check the decomp first.

[Hoosier_Daddy]

OK, the only thing that frightens me now is some talk about the rings.....

Quote from HD "
The whole point here is, it is quite probable, that my issue isn't a timing issue. I may have put the rings on wrong (even though I went by the manual and THOUGHT I had them right) or maybe the shop sold me the wrong set."

Cmon, now this is getting a bit out of hand. You were entirely confident of your rings before..... Your frightening me now HD......

Staggering rings is simple, the "T" is simple. Where do we begin to help you my fellow rider??

I'd bet even rings lined with all the gaps lined up would grab a bit more than 30 PSI there spanky.......................

I honestly feel like I'm getting more stupid every post I make lately........

Forestcrasher signs off.I still am confident with the the rings. But, I know i checked that timing gear several times at every stage of assembly and i can say it is either 180 degrees off or it is right where it is supposed to be with the exception of being off by a couple teeth or maybe even one tooth. You have claimed this scenario will not create the compression loss.

Let me get this straight with you. I have admitted many times in this thread that I obviously made a mistake somewhere and will have to correct it. You basically accused me of being overconfident and arrogant in one of your posts. Nothing can be farther from the truth. I am a very humble person and the FIRST to admit when I make a mistake. If I wasn't, I wouldn't be here asking for help, right? Now you appear to be accusing me of having no comprehension of how an engine operates. I assure you, I'm very well aware of how an engine operates. But, just because i know how the engine works does that mean I'm impervious to making mistakes? Hell no. I think you are getting more stressed about my engine then i am. I'm calm and collected about this. Just discussing possibilities of the possible causes with fellow trikers is all. I haven't had time to get back into it yet.

Relax my friend, I'll get it figured out when I get the chance. This is one of those "school of hard knocks" for me and I'll learn from this mistake and move on to make new mistakes in the future and learn from them as well. That's what life is all about. But, as far as my trike, it's all good. I know the engine is solid. There isn't anything major wrong with it. I just have to work out the bugs, figure out what I did wrong and all will be good and I'll still have my budget trike. I appreciate your advice and help. I know you try hard to help out and it doesn't go unappreciated. You gotta know I love ya man.:lol:

[Dirtcrasher]

I'm not accusing you, I'm TELLING YOU!! However it's not meant to be demeaning and or belittling :D Allot of the things I say in posts are just general statements and not necessarily meant for one person in particular.

I think allot of people ARE a bit overconfident and I can read it in there posts. If I had a 250R for every guy that posts about a trike they bought, plans to rebuild it and 2 months later we get the "no compression" "won't run" "leaks oil like crazy" - I'd have a 60x100 foot building filled with 250R's :lol: Like I said though, I'm just as guilty as the next guy in making mistakes.... But, I always find out what I did wrong and discipline myself with a sharp pick and or sawzall.

All I was saying is that by either removing the valve cover itself or the caps and using a straw in the plug hole, you can rough check the timing in 5 minutes IF you have a clear understanding of what needs to happen and when. At least then you can rest knowing that your on the right path.

All 4 strokes do the same thing be it chain driven, belt driven or gear driven. That critical timing is merely "proved" by those timing caps, a visual look at the cam and a straw placed in a spark plug hole and the pulse generator lined up with a flashlight does the job. Or it's done with the timing covers removed and the piston at TDC to begin with.

The amount of cam to crank revolutions is the same in all 4 stroke engines. Guys that say 180 out bends valves FRIGHTEN ME and it wasn't you I was referring to that said it. But, some people do feel that it bends valves and I wish someone could simply show them how the 2 TDC's are the same in terms of valves to piston relations and the only variable is ignition timing.

You felt an obstruction and the timing HAD to be off for that to have been felt.

As far as the rings, you were confident you lined them up. To the point that you eliminated it as a problem. Just as you are now, I would second guess myself about any aspect of this because the "phantom problem" is unknown at this point.

Even if all 5 end gaps were not placed exactly 70 or so degrees (360/5) rough, it wouldn't be a huge issue. Typically I place the top and 2nd ring forwards at 10 and 2, the oil ring back at 6 and the other oil rings at 8 and 4 O-clock.

But, I'm fairly certain you could line them all up and even upside down and still get more than 30psi. Thats all I was trying to get across.

As far as the decomp lever that people have mentioned, we went over that pretty clearly when you had the problem in the 1st place.

Sadly, even shops you pay big money for cannot be trusted. And I just love the sign that says "NO WARRANTY!!" That makes ya feel good doesn't it??!! :lol:

I'll never forget the one time I left a motor at the Yamaha shop. Blaster bottom end only and it needed main bearings. I handed it to him, 3 years old and spotless and he put a tag on it labeled "BASKET CASE". At that time I didn't have a shop, a press or the correct flywheel puller. I got it back, lifted out the clutch pivot and the ball was sitting inside!! I knew from reading that the ball belonged at the opposite end of the pushrod and the clutch cover and other parts had to come off again. I went back to the shop and I swear I was so angry I was shaking, I couldn't believe they assembled my whole bottom end and made such an obvious mistake as that. They fixed it, but it certainly didn't make me feel good about the 67$ an hour I had just paid them..........

Since then, I only pay to have cylinders bored or valves and seats ground. I just don't have confidence in ANYONE!!

[SWIGIN]

:confused: I just assembled it over the weekend. What do you mean "still"? I haven't had time to mess with the engine to check for problems yet this week. Just discussing it for now until I get time to get back at it.

It's also easy to go back to more then one post in this thread where it is "easy to read" that those steps have been accomplished.:)

The whole point here is, it is quite probable, that my issue isn't a timing issue. I may have put the rings on wrong (even though I went by the manual and THOUGHT I had them right) or maybe the shop sold me the wrong set..



what i ment by still is the last 2 350x motors i rebuilt both were running in 3 kicks.....not 3 kicks each motor....3 all together.

if....and that seems to be a huge if right now....you have the timing right it should fire right up.

[300rman]

Check your compression, then dump a TBLSPN of oil thru the spark plug hole

What kind of oil should i use?





OH, and to check the spark, hold the plug against the ehad and have a budd kick it over, or just hold the coil wire. it doesnt hurt just kind of zolts you lol.

[Hoosier_Daddy]

OH, and to check the spark, hold the plug against the ehad and have a budd kick it over, or just hold the coil wire. it doesnt hurt just kind of zolts you lol.Oh boy, I learned that the hard way when i was about 14. I was even holding the plug away from the cylinder to see the spark while my cousin kicked over the bike and I got shocked through the boot. The boot must have been cracked but I'll tell ya what, it woke me up pretty quick. Now, I hold the boot with a pair of pliers that have insulated handles. I prefer not to feel that again. It wasn't torture but it certainly wasn't enjoyable. haha

[Hoosier_Daddy]

OK, silly story here, I guess. I kept getting 30 PSI of compression because i figured I put it together wrong. Yes, that hurts my pride because I have always been pretty damn good with engines. Anyway, out of curiousity, I decided to check the psi on my Tecate. Well, it too is only 30 psi. Then I knew something fishy is going on. You see, I dodn't have a compression tester. I borrowed my dads. His tester is many many years old and has been stored in his garage for probably 15 to 20 years. I know my T3 has plenty of compression because it runs fine and I haven't taken it apart yet. So, I'm thinking the compression tester is faulty. Well, it is faulty. For some reason the needle gets stuck at 30psi. So, I went and bought an inexpensive tester at Auto Zone. My T3 has 150psi. So, I checked my 350X once again and sure enough, she has compression. So, compression has not been my problem this whole time.


This is where I need help. I am helplessly lost with electrical. The bike ran before I took it apart but the problem with my trike is, no spark. I know the stator had a ground that ws broken off but the other was still in place. I assumed the bike ran like this before because I never messed with it so the stator wasn't any different then it was before disassembly. Could my stator be causing my problem? I checked all the wires and hooked everything up to the best of my knowledge. The ground is connected. Can you guys give me any clues why I suddenly lost spark? If I get spark, this bad boy will be running!!

[Erics350x]

Clean the paint off of the coil mounts and the ground post near the coil and i bet you'll have spark again if the stator wire didnt short out.

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Clean the paint off of the coil mounts and the ground post near the coil and i bet you'll have spark again if the stator wire didnt short out.I'll try that. Thanks bro!

[Dirtcrasher]

"As the Trike wheel turns......" :lol:

Your FOOT couldn't feel the difference between 30PSI and 150PSI :crazy: :wondering

A good tip a mechanic once gave me for just a quick general compression test, he said "If you put your thumb over the spark plug hole firmly, it should blow your thumb off"

I wonder what was the "obstruction" that was felt when turning it over??

Are you sure a little elf didn't come by and wave his magic wand in the last couple of weeks :lol:

Just check the basics first like the on/off switch itself but if you messed around with another stator, that may be the issue and it might be a piece of cake. Get out your OHMM meter and Shop Manual. If it ran before, then it's whatever you touched (stator?) as long as ALL the other stock connections are clean and correct.

Wasn't there an issue of an 85 VS 86 stator and or flywheel? Did you get the matching components?

I hope it all works out for you... :beer:

[Hoosier_Daddy]

"As the Trike wheel turns......" :lol:

Your FOOT couldn't feel the difference between 30PSI and 150PSI :crazy: :wondering

A good tip a mechanic once gave me for just a quick general compression test, he said "If you put your thumb over the spark plug hole firmly, it should blow your thumb off"

I wonder what was the "obstruction" that was felt when turning it over??

Are you sure a little elf didn't come by and wave his magic wand in the last couple of weeks :lol:

Just check the basics first like the on/off switch itself but if you messed around with another stator, that may be the issue and it might be a piece of cake. Get out your OHMM meter and Shop Manual. If it ran before, then it's whatever you touched (stator?) as long as ALL the other stock connections are clean and correct.

Wasn't there an issue of an 85 VS 86 stator and or flywheel? Did you get the matching components?

I hope it all works out for you... :beer:
Thanks for the kind words, bro. Actually, as stated in an earlier thread, the compression felt very strong so that it whay I couldn't figure out why only 30psi was showing up. The good news is, I have to figure out an electrical ordeal, as was mentioned, just a bad ground most likely and i'll be running here soon enough. I'm stoked but as I admitted, I am adsent minded with electrical so this will be a challenge for me. Just as a back up, I prchesed a brand new startor and flywheel just to be on the safe side. Then when i check all the ground contacts, I think I'll have my beast going.

I do have a qustion though, I honed the cylinder (actually deglazed it, and put on new rings. Any recomendations for a proper breakin for just that? Should I take it easy for 15 minutes to 1/2 hour or just ride it normal to braek in the new rings?

[Erics350x]

Everyone will give you a different opinion on engine brake-in. I personally (on 4-strokes) just ride it easy long enough to get it up to temp. Then i let it cool down, then i run it abit harder till temp is reached, let it cool down. Then change the oil and ride like you stole it. 2-stroke's i treat abit different.

[Bryan Raffa]

dirtcrasher you kill me ...:lol:

get a OHM meter and a manual.. start with a continuity test on the wireing harness..

[Hoosier_Daddy]

dirtcrasher you kill me ...:lol:

get a OHM meter and a manual.. start with a continuity test on the wireing harness..
Just curious, what's so funny about it?

I have a manual but i'll bust out the ohm meter.

[Bryan Raffa]

Him Saying That Your Foot Couldnt Feel The Diffrence Between 30psi And 150 Psi...:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: IT'S EVEN FUNNY TODAY!:lol:

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Him Saying That Your Foot Couldnt Feel The Diffrence Between 30psi And 150 Psi...:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: IT'S EVEN FUNNY TODAY!:lol:Oh, I see. Yeah, he knows that I thread a while back i posted that the compression felt great so the 30psi was a complete puzzle to me as well. He's quite the kidder. lol:lol:

Anyway, I cleaned the grounds and still no spark. I have to have done something wrong because it ran before. I checked all wires and made sure everything was good befor putting on the plastic protectors. I will be getting the fly wheel that matches the stator I bought from eric350x when i get the puller mailed but just for the hell of it, i bought a new startor and flywheel to throw on. Anyone think this spark problem could be a stator /flywheel problem? Or is it likely something else.

Please let me reiterate I am a complete dumb azz when it come to wiring. I need help with this on in a big way. Thanks guys!

[Hoosier_Daddy]

"As the Trike wheel turns......" :lol:

Your FOOT couldn't feel the difference between 30PSI and 150PSI :crazy: :wonderingNot to mention the fact that the compression was there the whole time but the compression tester was faulty. :crazy: :twisted: :lol:

[DeePa]

i love it how you get made fun of just as much without me in here, but if its hidden in a post you're clueless about it. You need a person to tell you you're an idiot just to get it...you dont get hints very well

[Hoosier_Daddy]

i love it how you get made fun of just as much without me in here, but if its hidden in a post you're clueless about it. You need a person to tell you you're an idiot just to get it...you dont get hints very well...............

[Dirtcrasher]

i love it how you get made fun of just as much without me in here, but if its hidden in a post you're clueless about it. You need a person to tell you you're an idiot just to get it...you dont get hints very well


^^ :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Man, I usually tear the chit down, coat it, rebuild it, plug it all back in and it's CHICKEN :welcome: :beer

I must have a 14kt gold horseshoe up my stinker.........

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Well, Thanks to Erics350X i got a WORKING pulse generator and got the bike back together. After that it didn't take much work at all to get it to fire up. Runs great. I only let it run for about a minute because i haven't broken in the rings yet and didn't have the time to do it so i shut it off. Then just for my own piece of mind, I wanted to kick it over again to see if it would start ok. Fired right up first kick. This whole compression thing, then the "trying" to find why i lost spark crap seems ridiculous but this whole time all it was, was a faulty pulse generator. Anyway, I'll break in the rings when i get the chance then I'll be good to go riding.


Dirtcrasher, to answer your question that i forgot to answer before, when i felt the obstruction while turning the engine over, it happened when i set the cam by the wrong timing mark on the flywheel. After you and jeswinehart straightened me out on the proper mark, I was able to adjust the valves properly and it was all good after that.

I'm just glad it's running now and all my work wasn't in vain.

[Erics350x]

Glad you got it goin, but these guy aren't gonna let up unless you post a video of it running. lol

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Glad you got it goin, but these guy aren't gonna let up unless you post a video of it running. lolYeah, I'm going to post some video when I can get out and get my dad's video camera at some point. But, anyone on here who "thinks" they are giving me a hard time over an internet message board, is the last reason I'll be posting a video. ;) I'll do it for trike fans to enjoy instead.:beer

[racerxxx]

What's the Dillio???????????????????????

Break in story,Ride report,VID, something

UPDATE Please, lets get some vids!

:w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t:


This is all in good fun, wait for it.................




wait for it...........................





























This is priceless!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

rtfm

Not sure who created it but I can't stop laughing, HD no offense please, I just happened to find it while looking fo a new icon to insert and couldn't resist. I'm not trying to start a new rant/war, just in a great mood!!!!

[Dammit!]

This is priceless!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

rtfm

Not sure who created it but I can't stop laughing

Glad you like it. :lol:

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Sorry, no break in or video yet. My oldest daughter is here for the summer from out of state and it's the only time I get to spend with her every year so I have been spending family time. The trike takes a back seat for a while. I'll post up some vid when I get a chance though.