85 YTM Tri-moto 200 wont start....need help

[shadix518]

Ok i got this 85 Tri-Moto 200 from a guy last sunday and it wasnt running. the fuel tank was not hooked up at all and the air box was disconnected from the carb. So i cleaned the tank out to make sure of nothing was in there due to it not having a gas cap. so after cleaning the tank i hooked it up to the carb gave it a few(like 20-30 pulls) nothing. pulled the carb and cleaned the bowl and tryed again and it started. It ran for about 10 sec then died while it was running it was spitting stuff out of the carb that looked like a oil and gas mix and smelled that way too. So i pulled the carb again soaked it in carb cleaner overnight. it was dirty but not the worst ive seen. i put it all back together and tryed firing it again. nothing the only thing i can get is a backfire here and there. So i got some starting fluid and tryed some of it and nothing it is getting fire. but one thing i did notice is after pulling like crazy i pulled the plug and it was dry. So i sprayed starting fluid directly in the plug hole and put the plug back in and tryed again....and the same thing NOTHING. tonight i will be puting a new plug in it and i think i may adjust the floats to make sure their not set to low. anyone else have any idea what i need to do to get this thing running??

ahh and one more thing i pulled the oil check stick and looked at it oil is clean but has a hint of gas smell to it?? bad rings??

[shadix518]

none have any ideas??

[Yamada]

Maybe if the oil smell gas, you flooded the engine. Remove the spark plug and pull the recoil several times.
Then plug the spark plug and ground the electrodes on the head. Pull the recoil and look for a blue spark at the tip of the plug. Also check if all the switvh are at the ON position.

[shadix518]

i have pulled the plug and cranked it over serveral times and it is getting good spark but the only thing is, is that the plug is dry when i pull it out after trying to start it for so long

[Lukeatc185]

check your carb boot, and the intake hole behind the boot, i had an old dirt bike stall out and not run because it was stored outside and some leafs got stuck inside and wouldint allow the mix to get through effincently so it would not fire.

[Lukeatc185]

if you have compression in the cylinder fuel/air and spark, and timing is on it should run.

[shadix518]

yea im wondering tho when i sprayed starting fluid in the plug hole it did not fire over ither

[Lukeatc185]

sounds like something to do with compression. if you had good compression and a nicely cleaned carb you would be getting a wet plug. my atc is doing the EXACT same thing. im losing compression from my valves. and i have a dry plug and it wont fire either.

[shadix518]

could it be due to the float being set to low?

[Lukeatc185]

well no, the float to low would just mean almost no fuel comming through the carb right. but if u put fuel right into the cylinder with no fire. its nothing to do with your fuel, its another issue. timing or compression id say.

[shadix518]

would it have good compression if i had it running for like 10 sec??

[Lukeatc185]

yes, but that dosent mean something didint happen in the 10 seconds that you had compression. something happend in those 10 seconds to, either mess with spark or valve timing, or compression, im not a mechanic or anything but i think others will agree, it seems like you have a bad valve or something changed in those 10 seconds.

[shadix518]

ok ill have to check the compression when i get a chance but heres a question i was thinking that mabe it isnt running due to the floats not being set right along with the air box and air filter to make the mixture correct to the button

[Vealmonkey]

If you had it running for 10 seconds, then it fired, which means you have spark. Now where did the fuel come from so when it had spark it fired? It had to come from somewhere. A spray of starting fluid doesn't last forever, maybe 5 or 10 seconds. Sounds like you have a fuel problem. Have you made sure that the air intake from the outside of the trike, throught your airfilter and into the carb is not blocked off. Also, didn't you have a thread about this yesterday?

[Lukeatc185]

mixture is set with a screw on the carb, all the mixing happends in the carb and the boot. not the air box. you should be able to run it without any air box period, if the fuel mix was incorrect, you should stil get a wet plug after a couple of pulls.

[Lukeatc185]

its definatly not a fuel problem. he put fuel right into the cylinder without any fire. it should have putted a few times.. its a compression or timing problem. but i guess you can say if its got bad compression now it wont pull fuel and air into the cylinder.

[shadix518]

no i didnt post this yesterday i posted when i got it but thats about it and i hadnt done any work to it

[Vealmonkey]

If you try and run the trike without a filter and the airbox, it will just cause a lean condition and if and when it starts, it will just runaway, deathrev! Don't run the trike without a filter or airbox, you won't be happy and you better either be ready to hit the off switch and hold it down until the trike stops or pull the spark plug wire or the trike will deathrev.

[shadix518]

only reason i brought up the air box and filter is i saw on another post about someone having starting issues and when they hooked that back up it started but i may have read wrong

[Vealmonkey]

If you put fuel or fluid into the trike and it happens to be on TDC, you won't really get anything into the trike to start it. Also if he used starting fluid, he could have taken so long to put the plug in that it evaporated.

[Lukeatc185]

if he pulls the airbox off it shouldint jus high rev and take off....... the airbox is mounted behind the carb. ive ran hundreds of engines without any airbox or filter for testing this does not happen, if the bike takes off without an airbox. you have a bad seal on the boot or something like that. your air is regulated by the throttle moving up and down and allowing more air.. not having an airbox on.

[Lukeatc185]

yea that could be true, but he should be able to just spary it into the carb itself. remove the airbox and spray it right into the carb

[shadix518]

well i def need to check the compression....on thos ytm 200 they have a lever on the side that attaches to the valves i think would that keep it from firing?

[Lukeatc185]

yea if somehow that was stuck open, it would kill your compression and without compression the engine fires and turns over, but wont have the momentum to keep turning on its own power. does your bike even put or try starting or is it just dead turning over.

[shadix518]

well every so ofter it will pop but it takes awhile to get even that pop form the exhaust

[Lukeatc185]

how did it sound for those 10 seconds.. the timing could have been a nad off and 10 seconds would be all you need to bend a valve.

[Vealmonkey]

OOPS, I was thinking 2 stroke, sorry. Been working on too many 2 strokes lately, well everyones but mine! LOL Luke is right, yank that airbox and filter off. I still am thinking carb problem though or at least the carb is one of your problems. Sounds like you are battling multiple gremlins though. You need to pull your rocker box covers off and make sure your valves are cycling through. Also you may have to end up resetting your valve clearances and try that. After you have your airbox off, you should try holding open the throttle and have a friend slowly pull your recoil cable while you hold your hand against the carb and see if it is pulling a vacuum against your hand. And you should try starting fluid instead of pouring gas in. It's easy to pour in a little too much gas and flood the engine. I wish I was there to see what all you are doing.

[Lukeatc185]

flooding the engine is the least of his worries putting fuel into the cylinder with a 4 stroke.. straight gas will strip the oil off the piston sleeve, and if it happends to fire up and sit on a high RPM after putting in alot of fuel into the cylinder you could really do a number on your sleeve or rings.

[shadix518]

well i have done the hand trick and its pulling really good vacume....so i dont think the valve may be the issue....and i didnt put alot of gas in the cylinder i only put a drop or so from putting a hose in the tank then just driping it off of the hose...i did look at the timing breifly but did not make sure it was down pack....i really need to get it to TDC and check but its hard to when im doing all of this by myself....

[Lukeatc185]

yea i have no clue about timing on a yamaha, hondas are fool proof, amazingly easy.

[shadix518]

well on the yamaha its really easy to check there is a little srew on plug on the case where the pull start is....the only problem is putting the motor on TDC while lookin in the hole for the T mark on it...lol....also i would like to say i REALLY HATE pull starts......my arm and hand are killing me

[Lukeatc185]

there should be a mark on the Flywheel, that identifies TDC use a screwdriver in the spark plug hole, make sure when it reads TDC the piston is all the way up.. when u do that, check the cam shaft should be another indicator on the cam shaft gear, im not sure how trailprotrailpro engine times spark, its either points or a CDI magnito. if its points wait for another person to repply with that awnser if its magnito u just need to line up the magnito properly. and your timing should be set.

[Lukeatc185]

just because you have some vacume through the carb dosent mean you have suffiencent compression for combustion.. i have supreme carb vacume until i remove my valve cover.. then i lose everything.. wich means a bad valve because ive checked my piston and rings. remove the valve cover.. then pull the cord if its really easy to pull after you do this.. you have a blown piston bad rings or a bad valve. if it happends. remove the head. if the rings are good and your piston is good. and it sits in the sleve snugg. u have a bad valve.

[shadix518]

man i hope thats not the case but ill look into it im really curious to see if the plug just has a weak spark....im replaceing it tonight and readjusting the float....

[Lukeatc185]

regardless... you have a dry plug u have some kind of compression/fuel issue, i wouldint run out and buy a plug.

[shadix518]

already bought.......

[Lukeatc185]

once you start getting a wet plug and you still wont fire, then getting a spark plug may be a good idea.

[Lukeatc185]

put it in see if it fires. if not take off the valve cover and pull the cord a few times and pray to got its still hard to pull.

[shadix518]

well i dont know i pulled the plug today before work and it smelled like gas so mabe....mabe not

[Lukeatc185]

it could also be something as small as a head gasket with a bad leak too.

[shadix518]

mabe but still the running for like 5-10 sec keeps making me think when it ran it spit and sputtered and like i said there was a oil/gas mix that was spitting out of the carb

[Lukeatc185]

oh there was stuff spewing out of the carb? towards the airbox.. if so sounds like your intake valve is opening when you have compression and its pushing fuel mix and old engine crap out with it..

[Lukeatc185]

there is oil in your cylinder so you could be getitng your mix in,, and it could be comming back out of your carb... pull of the exaust make sure theres no blockage..

[shadix518]

well i didnt think of the exhaust......a black puff comes out of the pip when it pops in the exhaust

[Lukeatc185]

lol you could have a rat in there or something.. ive heard of some weird stuff comming out of airboxes and muflers lol

[shadix518]

well the guy that i got it from said the only reason it was taken apart was because a kid was re-doing it as he said lol