valves

[Lukeatc185]

ok so i ripped my head off, to find a brand new piston and rings and a mint sleeve. so im gona have to say i have bad valves.. what is something to look for to find out if you have bad valves.. they look like they sit flush with the head, no gaps,

[Lukeatc185]

my problem was losing compression when my valve cover was off. so i guessed piston rings or valves.. is that a proper diagnostic? the piston is brand new, so are the rings, but i dont see how i was losing compression through my valves either now that the head is off.

[leevarnado]

did you do a compression check.

[Lukeatc185]

on what.. i was losing all compression when i took my valve cover off, so from what ive been told and from experince i had either a hole in the piston. bad rings, or my valves are bad. i pulled the whole head off this morning to find a brand new piston and rings, so it must be my valves by process or elimination right....

[Lukeatc185]

but they both look like there sitting flush with the head and tightly, i dont see how they could be leaking. neither are bent either.

[Lukeatc185]

lol pulling off the valve cover and noticing that the engine would turn over with NO resistance is enough of a test for me,, when i put the cover back on, i was good on compression. from what you could tell from pulling the cord.

[leevarnado]

it could be the valve seals,whoever put the new valves in probably didn't replace the old seals with new ones.

[Lukeatc185]

how do i check the seals?

[Daddio]

What engine are you talking about and which valve cover did you take off when you lost compression? If I were to take the cover off of the top of the head on my 70 I would lose compression also but it wouldn't come from the valves it would be leaking around the head gasket.

[Lukeatc185]

i left the tension bolt tight, and its a old engine it was a trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro to pull the head off even when lose to i dont think the head gasket was leaking, but its possible.

[Lukeatc185]

also when i had the valve cover bolted on.. and i remove the valve Cap.. i lost compression again. even with t he head bolted down tight.

[shadix518]

you know it would be possible for your valves bing find when the head is off but when it was on they could have been very slightly open and i can see that giving you no compression with the valve cover off....

[harryredtrike]

take pictures of your progress,your description is shaky to say the least.a picture is worth a thousand words.take pictures and point to what you did or are doing.just a suggestion if you want good advise.

[Lukeatc185]

this is true, i never thought about that.

[Lukeatc185]

well im happy at the fact that there is a new wiseco piston and rings in there, and thats about 150 bucks lol. almost what i payed for the whole atc. i gota get these valves check out.

[shadix518]

well a way you can check the valves is with the head off put some water on them and let it sit a bit and if the water is not setting on it and has seaped through the valves are not seating right. just make sure after this process you dry it really well

[Lukeatc185]

they are seated properly, and from what i can tell the engine has been rebuilt in the last couple of hours of use.. the piston has been run, but no more then an hour id say. the top of the piston is still somewhat silver, im running out of ideas, when it was together i checked the timing and strokes with the valve screw covers off, they look like the oil plug but they are so u can lube/see the valves. during the combustion stroke the cam has no push on the valves what soever.. so they arent being pushed during the combustion stroke either.. i am completely lost now, nothing is making sence, im going to take it in if it wont run when i put it back together.

[shadix518]

well thats awsome that it was rebuilt but you dont know everything the did during the rebuild i would still do the water test since you already have the head off and make sure there seating well they can look like they are even when there not

[harryredtrike]

they are seated properly, and from what i can tell the engine has been rebuilt in the last couple of hours of use.. the piston has been run, but no more then an hour id say. the top of the piston is still somewhat silver, im running out of ideas, when it was together i checked the timing and strokes with the valve screw covers off, they look like the oil plug but they are so u can lube/see the valves. during the combustion stroke the cam has no push on the valves what soever.. so they arent being pushed during the combustion stroke either.. i am completely lost now, nothing is making sence, im going to take it in if it wont run when i put it back together.

////if the cam is not making contact with the valves they are not set right,please read the manual on adjusting valves.i set mine at 2 thousandths of an inch each,exhaust and intake./////////////////////////////////////////////

[Lukeatc185]

on combustion stroke the cam doesnt touch the valves at all, but on intake stroke i can see the intake valve push down and open, and on exaust stroke i see the exaust valve open and close.. is this wrong? are the little arms that run off the cam movement supose to always be touching?

[shadix518]

well not neccesary touch but be very very close you need to make sure you set them with a feeler gage to the correct amount....if they are not set right they can cause a no starting issue... ill find the specs on it

[harryredtrike]

on combustion the valves are closed,cam not touching.everything sounds right,the way you have it

[harryredtrike]

well not neccesary touch but be very very close you need to make sure you set them with a feeler gage to the correct amount....if they are not set right they can cause a no starting issue... ill find the specs on it

////////////set them at 2 thousandths

[shadix518]

ok there you go

[Lukeatc185]

no water has goten through the valves. yet. so i think they are seated properly, when i had the engine together it would not run.. so any last sugestions? almost ready to take it to a shop and pay the 500 dollar bill :(

[Lukeatc185]

there definatly alot more gap then 2thousands of an inch between the little arms and the actualy valve during the combustion stroke thats where you want me to use my feeler gauge right?

[shadix518]

yea from the sounds of it it may be valve adjustment i would try setting those before taking it to the shop

[harryredtrike]

no water has goten through the valves. yet. so i think they are seated properly, when i had the engine together it would not run.. so any last sugestions? almost ready to take it to a shop and pay the 500 dollar bill :(

/////////////did you down load the manual from here?if not do it and read it.check your timing,you have compression,getting fuel,good spark plug,it can only be a few things.

[Lukeatc185]

alright sounds good, there quite a bit of play between those little things, thank god my cheap ass mastercraft tool set has a feeler gauge,

[Lukeatc185]

i did check spark, timing was good ill need to reset it now that i tore it apart, i had everything nessesary to run besides my compression was being lost through the valves some how

[shadix518]

yea you need to use the feeler gage and as you tighten it move the feeler gage back and forth once you have very little movement tighten them but make sure you dont set them to tight or it could damage the cam

[Lukeatc185]

ok. 2 thousands of an inch would read, 0.02mm ? mine reads in mm.

[shadix518]

correct make sure you adjust them with it all together or they wont set right

[Lukeatc185]

alright, thanks man ill have it back together tomorrow noonish ill let everyone know.

[shadix518]

kinda sux im in the same situation as you hope we can get our trikes running

[Lukeatc185]

i am wondering if my aftermarker wiseco piston will add any power.

[shadix518]

depends on the specs on it compared to whats in it....

[Lukeatc185]

previous owner said it was bored out to a 215, but i dont see it. still think its a 180cm3 its the weight of the piston thats probably a big diferince.

[shadix518]

yea that will make a little difference and i highly dout he bored it out to that amount

[Lukeatc185]

yea me either, i hope it runs after rebuilding it up and setting those valve gaps. if it does ill be the happiest 20 year old trailer ever!

[shadix518]

well once you get yours fixed come on over to my place and help me get mine done lol

[Lukeatc185]

lol your a good 10 hour drive from me :P or id come over tonight to help ya. i love working on engines, i just get frusterated after a month of a run around.

[shadix518]

haha i get frustrated after using a pull start for 5 min so you got me there

[Lukeatc185]

dude i killed my arm so many times not using my pressure swich on the head. id just tinker with it and wana see if i did any good, and id pull it a couple times and forget and then id have a sore arm all afternoon lol i almost picked the bike off the ground one time i grabbed it with both hands cause my arm was getting tires, and that happend to be the pull that it had big compression, the bike came an inch off the ground and i let go. broke the pull cord spring. still need to fix that too.

[shadix518]

that sux...whoever thought of pull starts on atvs needs to be kicked somwhere....kick start or electric start FTW

[shadix518]

also you need to post some pics of your bike

[Lukeatc185]

thats next on my list to build is a kickstart that can be used like the pull cord. im thinking i can use the same case and the same setup inside accept im going to weld an bolt comming out thats attached to the spinning round thing that catched the flywheel, i have an old dirtbike kick start lever

[shadix518]

oh you should totaly build one for my tri-moto 200

[Lukeatc185]

take some pics of it and show me how it works. is it the same as idea as mine u spin it, 3 little arms fly out and catch the flywheel?

[shadix518]

yea ill do that ive got the wealder just not the parts

[Lukeatc185]

if u got the welder.. i can think of a 5 dollar solution lol.

[shadix518]

like what? lol

[Lukeatc185]

well when you show me the pictures of your pull cord all around ill let you know, usualy a washer and a high quality large bolt and either a big drill bit or a dremel.

[shadix518]

well mine is kind of weird if you sitting on the bike its on your left side and the pull fuction makes the gear turn towards the back wheel so i dont know if its doable?

[Lukeatc185]

your engine spins clockwise? thats effed

[shadix518]

yea so i would have to get a gear in there somehow to make it work

[Lukeatc185]

not nessesarly im sure theres a way get me some pictures so i can help you out on that. i do alot of welding/metel work my best friend is actually licenced in the trade and has all the goodies :) he helps me design everything, thats why im also just looking for a rear suspension arm from another ATC, my buddy is going to do all the fabricating with me. its going to be easy and done good.