reliabilty?

[adamd]

how reliable is a 6mm stroker with a .50 over bore in a 200x ? i also am considering a oil cooler setup to make it run a liltle cooler also would a extended dipstick side cover help it run cooler?

thanks

[factoryX]

once you bore out your 200x motor, your looking for more problems.

[atctim]

once you bore out your 200x motor, your looking for more problems.

There won't be any problems boring it out - what do you think people just replace the whole jug once it needs bored???? I don't understand your comment factoryx.

Not sure on reliability of the stroker. Will this require a new crank - if so - and you do all the bottom end bearings - I see no reliability issues what so ever.

[Dirtcrasher]

.50 must mean 1/2MM or .020" and I don't see any reliability issues but when you go larger the cylinder wall gets thin. Someone here had offered sleeves that had a thicker wall thickness than stock.

It seems like stroking the motor seems to create more of a time bomb, but it's also where you get some great gains!!

[adamd]

ok dc my pistions is a 65.50 mm stock is 65. mm so thats .50mm over right? the stroker is a 6mm stroker if i figure right thats a 215cc motor correct?

i dont understand fatory x ether.

i know were a new powroll stroker is seting on a shelf if i got it i am gona put new bearings seals basicly new everything except cases and tranny and they r in great shape i dont ride the bike a whole lot at the most a weekend a month my other ones is the stock bike i ride most of the time

[Dirtcrasher]

^ Just from what I've read, stroking an otherwise very reliable motor compromises it.

But, if it were my bi-weekend warrior and I had access to the parts for a fair cost - I'd do it in a heartbeat!!

I'd love to build a stroker motor for the 86/87 200X but they aren't a shelf item and it could run me 500$ or so just to stroke the crank. I'm sure at some point I'll end up doing it though as I have 7 motors to expirement with :D

As far as "FactoryX" goes, your post does say .5 or what can be perceived as 1/2" overall increase in diameter or 1/4" off of the wall, maybe thats what he was thinking??

But, from what I've read even a 1.5MM overbore doesn't seem to be an issue.

It does depend on each models design and sleeve thickness though. Heck my 250SX is 2MM or about .080 thousandths overbore. It's still an SX though :lol:

[Brad200X]

OK now I'm confused. I really don't think an extra half MM in piston diameter is gonna make a difference as far as HP, or reliability. Somebody enlighten me. Are you gonna run a 12:1 piston?

[Dirtcrasher]

Why are you confused bro??

Boring cylinders NEVER makes a huge difference. Thats why newer 250cc motors offer 290 kits with a different cylinder etc etc.... Even a 2MM overbore does not make a 250 a 300, thats a misconception ALLOT of uniformed people make.

Power is made with stroking, compression, porting (not by you and Mr Dremel), exhaust and carburetor changes......

And believe me , I have ALLOT to learn before I'd even attempt to take on a motor like SEADOO has; he's not giving up any secrets either :lol:

[Brad200X]

Thanks for clearing that up. I totally agree with you. I mean I've got a 2mm over stock piston in my 250R, and that only adds up 262 CCs, and that probably added a fraction of a HP. I was just confused why 1/2 MM was taken so seriously by some.

[factoryX]

I was talking about common people just boring out the stock cylinder and leaving stock parts in. Also, if you have a high comp. motor the kick start on the 83-85 like to break the return spring or shatter the kick start gear. Get ready to replace every thing on the top end.

[adamd]

ok
heres what i have so far powroll valves and titanium retainers, a norris cam (topend hi rev cam) 65.50 mm bore stock compression. very open cobra style pipe.

i posibly have a extended dip stick side cover coming to hold more oil if not im planing on building a oil cooler setup. or both
i can get a powroll 6mm stroker from a friend at a decent price.
im thinking ether 10.25:1 or 12:1 not sure yet got some plans.
and im looking for a lectron carb or just a bigger carb. proly a xr
i am thinging about a 200e head for the decompressin switch. this should help the kicker gear a great deal correct?

right now the bikes lacking power with the cam and springs on stock compresion. i think this would cause that right?

this bike porbally will not get rode more than 3 or 4 times a month. it alredy is inneed of a kicker gear geting replaced soon as i decided what im gona go stroker or not. i may just leave the stroker and go with everything else.

[factoryX]

well if you go with that set up I'd stroke it... if you use 12:1 your looking at race gas, 10.25:1 is premium with no ethanol.

[Vealmonkey]

Performance is a combo of factors. The big thing is, what do you plan on doing with the trike. If it is for racing or wide open throttle alot of the time, you build accordingly. If it is meant for tight woods and pleasure riding, then you build accordingly. No need to build a high compression high rev stroker big bore, for something you harldy ever twist the throttle wide open on. Believe me, you won't have any fun riding a trike with an engine that is over built. Tons of problems.
If this is not a competition trike, I would personally not use over a 10.5 piston. No need to use special fuels and cost yourself lots of extra money for nothing. Also, no need to cam it for the max, if your not running it to the max, it will only hurt the engine in the long run. If you are not running the engine hard or running in very hot conditions, then there is really no use to run an oil cooler. If you really want more power, than you should really look into a trike with a bigger engine, like a 350x. You can build a 200x to make alot more power than stock, but it comes with 2 prices. Cost and reliability. The people that raced 200xs', they built the engines to the max and they rebuilt the engines often. If you are not looking for a maintenance queen, then I would stay more towards stock or mild upgrades. It's your ego and your wallet, but alot of people build their trikes for conditions they never see and they run like total pigs. You are almost better off running stock, but making sure everything you have is fresh and working properly. Make sure your valves are seating properly and nicely ground of nicely lapped in valve seats. A timing chain that isn't stretched all to heck. A piston and rings that are nice and fresh. A bore that is in round and has been properly honed to have the proper cross pattern so the rings can seat and work as needed. An oil pump that is within proper specs and not worn to the point where it will barely have any oil pressure. Fresh gaskets that have been properly torqued. A decent tune up with fresh oil and spark plugs. Bearings that aren't dragging so badly that it actually causes drag on your drive train. Those are the things that will make a trike run really well. Performance parts aren't always what they are cracked up to be if you other systems aren't up to snuff. You'd be amazed at what some people will spend big money on and their drive chains are rusty and binding up or their wheel bearings are so bad the axles rock back and forth or brake systems aren't properly working. Some, more than some I should say, just don't get it. In these economic times, spend your money wisely.

[adamd]

well i dont want to build a stock bike i want a lil more i have 2 diferent cams a norris and a kenny harmon i havent herd alot bout ether of these cams for the 200x i only know of one other norris for a 200x, im gona stay with the bore i have now considering it has maybe 10 hrs on it. other than that and a cam n springs its stock and bout 15 mph slower than my stock bike some of this i know at the point in time is the 18in tires vs the 22s on my stock bike runing 2 1 tooth biger in front with the 18in tires i know is slower but its lacking power all around. i do need bearings but they have been ordered and my front breaks r perfect and no back breaks looking for a caliper mount everything else on the bikes fine.

so would you say go with the 10.25:1 and no stroker and wich cam?
and a xr carb. the motor was rebuilt by a good friend of mine before i got it with a new crank piston rings fresh bore few other random things.
i ride a resonible amount wide open. i would like it to run around 60 or a lil more wide open. my stocker with a pipe runs 55ish wide open

i want to make the bike close to how it was originaly a built flat tracker considering i have 90% of the flat track parts cut back tank no steer stops, +6 i think durable axle, 18in armstrong tires, and soon to be back on it the sundahl (spelling) low pro fenders
also the guy im geting the plastic back from says he has a 20ish tooth rear sproket that was on it but he changed it. was told it would run with a close to a 85 350x when it was a built flat track bike.
i raced with the same 350x on my stocker just to see how much he left me by n i got smocked when he hit 4th i think n he was ltn me top out before he ran it hard

[Nick_R_23]

Boring cylinders NEVER makes a huge difference. Thats why newer 250cc motors offer 290 kits with a different cylinder etc etc.... Even a 2MM overbore does not make a 250 a 300, thats a misconception ALLOT of uniformed people make.

This. Dont stock cylinders sit a few cc's under what their supposed number is anyway, so that when its on its final bore it reaches that number? IE your 250cc engine is really 246cc on a stock bore, so its last bore brings it to 250cc.

-Nick :TrikesOwn

[Vealmonkey]

It's kind of strange seeing a flat track trike with a longer axle. Most flat track trikes stayed stock or shorter to get the better turning radius. If you don't really know what cam grinds you have, I wouldn't use them. If you have some kind of radical cam, then it won't really work in a stock bike anyway. You want a slightly better than stock cam or a stock cam. You also need to make sure the bike is geared for what you have in it. Tires can throw off the best range of power for your trike. A good exhaust, a decent airfilter and maybe opening up the airbox some. A bigger carb and proper jetting would help. Your buddy might have put a new piston in and bored the cylinder, but if the head and valves and seals and such are tired, a new piston and bore won't help much. If the valves don't seat properly in the valve seats, you will lose compression and lose performance. If the valves leak by during any one of your 4 cycles, then that will lose you performance. A harmoniously running engine is very hard to accomplish, but well worth it when it all goes right. Also just like a car engine, you can bluepring your engine. Make sure the intake manifold is smoothly mated and blended to your head. If you had a supertrapp muffler, you could dyno tune your trike by adding or removing baffle plates and making sure your carb is properly vented. Making sure your clutch is working properly and not slipping or none of your clutch or transmission parts are binding or slipping. It really all the attention to details that make a difference. There are many small tricks. And the little tricks are what makes a difference as well as the attention to details.

[adamd]

ok i have to tear the motor down no mater what for a kicker gear thats sliping bad. i plan on new bearings everywere except the crank being the crank bearings i know are like new. i plan on puting new valve seals and valves. i do not know the exact grinds of ether cam being i cant find much info on them the kenny harmon cam has the markings K/H and ds on it and the norris cam has norris and a lil number engraved on it cant recall the number its in the bike now or i'd tell you. any info you might be able to geat me vealmonkey would be very greatly appreciated beings i know u deal with alott of rare parts.

i have decided the motors geting 10.25:1 wiesco 65.5mm and one of these 2 cams and keeping the powroll valve springs n titanium retainers.
i am gona put new bearings and seals and proly valves and timing chain. new clutchs. and thats about it. decided not to mess with a oil cooler but if i get the extended dip stick side cover im gona put it on. and the xr carb mod. supertrapps coming as soon as i find a deal on one.

with these mods what gearing would you run with 18in turftamer style tires?

i attached a few pics of my axle and tank and pipe any ideas on what kinda pipe?
as far as the turning it will turn on a dime the wheel will go about 80 degres to the frame. notice how much of the tank was cut back. the history i have on the bike was it was flat tracked from new and put in a chicken barn in 1988 when he quit raceing it.

[Vealmonkey]

Do a search and you will find a thread on how to figure out gearing for smaller tires. I want to say you change one tooth on the front sprocket for every 3 teeth for the rear sprocket, but I can't remember off hand in which direction that would go in, more teeth or less teeth. The formula would tell you in which direction you would want to go, to add or subtract teeth. I know it's in here somewhere, you just have to look.
Once again, beware of those 2 unknown cams. They may hurt your performance rather than enhance it. You may just want to go with a known cam instead of something that may not work and is unknown. It's your trike though.

[harryredtrike]

power gains comes from increases in flow.<air flow.>increase the carb dia.and increase the exhaust flow,larger valves,porting,exhaust,airfilters,and friction reducing methods I.E.roller rockers,bearing types,and the old rule that there is no replacement for displacement.

[Dirtcrasher]

I'll 2nd the vote on the odd cams.

I'm at the point that I'm thinking I've had allot of trouble jetting because my cam is simply way to aggressive. It seems to love wide open top end but not so much off idle to midrange. My cam was an "unknown" EBAY cam.

I do have another I can see what it does, but if I have to, I'll buy a good midrange cam so I have more usable power.....

[adamd]

i am gona go with the k/h ds cam i think its a kenny harmon? becuse one i know its not alot more than stock and i like how it run in my stock bike but with a high compression it should be even better i found out a bit more about it its a low mid cam and the other is all top end.

so i have decided on a wiesco 10.25:1 65.5mm and replacing valves keeping the stiffer valve springs, timing chain, all seals and bearings (a new kicker gear no matter what) and geting a xr carb to help with my mods being i have herd this even will helpam they a stock 200x a noticable amount.

edit the bigest reason im not still going bigger is i have decided to build a 250x/350x later on this summer or winter seems like it will sute me better all around and keep me off the original 200x and this old flat tracker. and i can do my trail riding and speed riding with a 250x 350x the bigest reson im not gona go with a 350x is i am not 100&#37; confident with the 350x power and just cant hold the 350xs power tell i get use to the size being im only 5,8 140 ish pounds and i can get 250x motors alot easyer and when i get more confident with the size change and power i can always drop in a 350x for more power most of the time i will be riding this i will be with guys riding 350xs and 250rs and have beein riding since they came out i hae rode there 350x's n they are just more power than i want right now and i loved the power of my old 250x,s i had n traded

[Dirtcrasher]

Make sure to not only replace the timing chain but BOTH guides.

That is an absolute MUST with all the 1st generation 200X motors and you'll hear the difference; like night and day.....

[adamd]

ok i will be sure to replace them also i start working again in 2 weeks so this is gona happen after i get payed