To everyone recommending Klotz Super-Techniplate

[kbreese]

Well after reading many good things about it, I bought a gallon of it from Rocky Mountain ATV for my 86 250R....BUT THAN I FOUND THIS FROM ANOTHER FORUM:


I have been using Klotz Super Techniplate for almost a year now. I recently decided to do some research on the product and HERE IS WHAT I CAME UP WITH. (http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=617454&highlight=klotz) It was told to me by the Production Manager at Klotz. It was also confirmed in an email from an Account Representative (I emailed but they were slow to respond so I called).

The Super Techniplate is made for extremely high reving motors because it contains 20% benol. It is NOT designed to be a storage lubricant and will rust up an engine if left in it for too long. They advised me to stop running this in my 200exc.

The R-50 is best used by 2-stroke riders who spend much of their time in the powerband (motocross or flattrackers). It is OK to use as a storage lubricate but will spooge at lower revs.

They highly recommended the Motorcycle TechniPlate TC-W3 for my uses. I am on the pipe about 50% of the time.

I have a bottle of Super Techniplate I'll sell you if you want it! I'm using up the R-50 I bought and switching to the regular Techniplate

I will probably only be riding a few times a year so my bike will sit a lot, and although I'll be driving it aggressively I am not an actual racer and will also plan on some trail riding too which may involve lower rpm chugging here and there

....So I will either be returning or selling this gallon and buying something else...maybe the Pro Honda HP2 oil.

But anyhow, I think people should understand and point out the caveats of that super-techniplate before just saying how great it is and how nice it smells :)

[Dirtcrasher]

Thanks for sharing...

I'm really sick of this oil chit, years ago you could just get any oil and change it and be good. Even premix, all I avoided was lawnmower or chainsaw chit and I was good.

Never seized a topend or lost a clutch from anything I built.

But, just like anything else, they have to make EVERYTHING difficult!!

[Dammit!]

I've used both R50 and SuperTechniplate and never had problems with either. I do rev the crap out of my R at the dunes though. It also does sit for a few months at a time in the off season. It (supertechniplate) supposedly seperates at low temperatures (under 30 degrees if I remember right) which I do run into on occasion. It's rare and only lasts a few hours and not the hours I'm riding it. I've thought about switching back to R50. I might for next season.

[DixiePlowboy]

I'm confused by the quote in your post though, kbreese. The person quoted saying "Super Techniplate is made for extremely high revving motors", but "R50 is best used by .......(motocross and flattrackers)" makes no sense to me.

All the available flat tracks in my area are dirt track(car)ovals that will keep your RPM up, where the extra film strength of the 20% Benol castor in Super Techniplate would be advantageous and desireable compared to the all-synthetic R50.


I switched from Maxima Castor 927 to Klotz Super Techniplate 3-gallons ago, and all I can say is that it burns cleaner, my throttle response is a noticeably crisper, and yes....it smells nice.

That said, mine is run at high rpm a good bit of the time, and I don't intend to let it sit still long enough for anything inside it to rust, so I'm sticking with ST.

Dammit!, my ST bottle says it will stay in suspension indefinitely and has no warning of seperation like 927 does.

[riverrat]

Guys, any synthetic oil can rust an engine. We run synthetic oil in our very expensive R/C planes, and it is required by the manufacture to put in after run oil, to prevent the engine from rusting during periods of storage.

This is an example:
http://www.rcslot.com/pc-radio-control-slot-cars/EVOX1000.html

Page 9 of this manual gives an example:
http://www.evolutionengines.com/ProdInfo/Files/EVOE0520H_52NX_Heli_Manual.pdf


The rust than can develop is fine, and can be abrasive. It can ruin an engine, especially after extended periods of storage. The engine can go bad in a few minutes. I had a small RC engine go bad after 2 tanks. It had been in storage for years though.

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Thanks for sharing...

I'm really sick of this oil chit, years ago you could just get any oil and change it and be good. Even premix, all I avoided was lawnmower or chainsaw chit and I was good.

Never seized a topend or lost a clutch from anything I built.

But, just like anything else, they have to make EVERYTHING difficult!!Agreed 100%. It may not have been entirely smart but i used to mix 30W auto oil in my old school air foolers when i was young and never had any problem. as long as the cylinder is getting lube. Of coarse newer synthetic oils run better and help with a bit more performance but in the long run you have to look at necessity. Is it necessary to pay outrageous money on a pint of oil when you don't have to? I don't think so. I'll be running spectra sx2 in my T3. I hope it's good enough.

[Maico]

I've used Super Techniplate for over 20 + years and never had a problem. Of course I don't buy an oil because it smells good either. Klotz never claimed ST to be a storage oil. Also....Klotz will not rust up your motor...but a lack of storage oil will.

ST has no separation issues. Straight Benol does....at temps *30F and lower.

What do want for the gallon of ST??

[kbreese]

I emailed Klotz today to ask them myselves. Basically I said I had a 250R used for recreational use and would be used in both summer and winter and only used myabe 5-6 times a year and would sit for several months at a time at times. Here is the response I got:


Kevin,



The best product is the kl-302 mc techniplate. This or any of our tcw3 mc snow out board or ski craft techniplate products are what you should be running based on what you have told me. The part numbers that you can run are as follows

KL- 215,215,300,301,302,303,306,307,332,333. These are all the for mentioned products.





Super tech and benol should not be run, based on the amount of storage times you will have.

These are made for racing only.



Best regards,



Jared Booth

Sales Manager

Technical Support

7424 Freedom Way

Fort Wayne, IN 46818

260-490-0489 Ext. 228

260-490-0490 Fax

Visit Our Website-

http://WWW.KLOTZLUBE.COM

[kbreese]

I've used Super Techniplate for over 20 + years and never had a problem. Of course I don't buy an oil because it smells good either. Klotz never claimed ST to be a storage oil. Also....Klotz will not rust up your motor...but a lack of storage oil will.

ST has no separation issues. Straight Benol does....at temps *30F and lower.

What do want for the gallon of ST??

What do you mean a lack of storage oil? How would I do that? Like if I spend a weekend riding than bring it back to the garage where it may sit for 2 months...what am I supposed to do, drain out all the remaining gas in there and than add a gas/oil mixture in using a different kind of oil...than drain that out the next time i want to go riding and add back in the ST/gas mixture??

As far as selling the ST, not 100% sure yet if I will sell, but mostly likely I will. I'm guessing it will cost me like $10 to ship it, so $35 shipped? I don't even have it yet...my order hasn't come from Rocky Mountain yet.

[deathman53]

I use the same oil, TC-W3. I had a problem with r-50 clogging the powervalve. klotz told me that they don't use r-50 or super tech for powervalves, it clogs them. The tc-w3 is a snowmobile oil. When I order it, the honda dealer goes nuts, when they can't find it in the mx/atv book. And then go look for the snowmobile book. I use it at 32:1 on my 250r's and 40:1 on my 200exc. The guy that had the 200exc before me use hp2,, talk about a clogged screen in the silencer!!!! and alot of spooge. Now the silencer is clean and no spooge, I did have some issues with fouling plugs in the 200 at 32:1, at 40:1 no issues. The 250r is usually screamed so it runs really clean and no fouling. The 200exc, probably 1/2 the time, I'm at no more than 1/2 throttle, the excess oil, caused spooge and fouled plugs.

[Maico]

What do you mean a lack of storage oil? How would I do that? Like if I spend a weekend riding than bring it back to the garage where it may sit for 2 months...what am I supposed to do, drain out all the remaining gas in there and than add a gas/oil mixture in using a different kind of oil...than drain that out the next time i want to go riding and add back in the ST/gas mixture??

As far as selling the ST, not 100% sure yet if I will sell, but mostly likely I will. I'm guessing it will cost me like $10 to ship it, so $35 shipped? I don't even have it yet...my order hasn't come from Rocky Mountain yet.


Relax...you'll be fine if your trike is kept indoors. 2 months is not a long time. I've left my old Maico's outside covered under nothing more than an old tarp at times w/ST in it and never had an issue. Most guys experiance fouling problems when first trying ST because it's designed for hi RPM use. Use the regular Techniplate otherwise.

The snowmobile stuff has rust inhibitors in it cause....well....most sleds are only riden for 3 months max and sit for the other 9 months.

Let me know if you decide to sell it when it arrives.

[Autophysn]

Good read! I just switched to 927 myself and could not be happier with it's performance on my last dune trip. I can not easily find the Klotz, so I opted not to run it. I really appreciate the info

[Jason Hall]

I have run HP2 for Years, and swear by It. I ran my 86R at a harescramble In Ohio with a blown head gasket for 2 hrs. Yes, I know why would you do that? Well, because I drove 4 hrs, and don't like to loose :lol: :lol: Me and my partner (team Harescramble) finished 2nd and both ended up on my 3 wheeler, as his blew out the coolant elbow from the cylinder head. I filled the radiator avery 3 laps. The engine was so hot It started to melt the stator wire rubber that seals the side cover. The piston finally got a nickel sized hole burned through It. When I pulled the engine down, the piston skirt was still like NEW, and the crank Is still being used. I run HP2 at 48:1, and that cures the oil dripping problem. HP2 stays soft, and slimmy and does Not crust up like I have seen Klotz do, but does not smell good :D :D

[Louis Mielke]

You gotta admit, Klotz smells like candy. Klotz and Cam2. Best smells ever!

[kbreese]

Honestly, i think thats the main problem. All anyone cares about is that it smells like candy. I am looking into Amsoil...

[Saul]

Honestly, i think thats the main problem. All anyone cares about is that it smells like candy. I am looking into Amsoil...

Amsoil Interceptor FTW!

:beer

Craziest crap I've ever read on here is people raving about 'good smelling' oil. :lol:

[Dammit!]

I started using klotz many years ago because that's what the guys that built my motor suggested. The smell is just a nice side benefit. :lol:

[ants84olds]

I have ran 927, amsoil, and super techniplate. I have to say I did not have a problem with the amsoil. I switched to klotz because the person who ported my motor said the amsoil had a really high flash point and had to get hot before it burned. So on start up the oil is not really protecting. I did not like the 927 because it was really messy and left a lot of residue. I like the klotz right now but I have only ran one or two tanks so far.

[Doc86R]

I used to run klotz until my engine guy gave me a rash when I took the jug in for porting. He got me to switch to Amsoil Dominator. I just did a top end on the R after 2 years with a lot of idle time, bottom end felt/looked good, jug cleaned up with scotchbrite - no complaints. Amsoil also has a pretty slick online ordering and delivery system - I ordered two qts Monday nite, got em Wed - paid about $28 with shipping.

I have to admit I do miss the smell of the Klotz, but I don't miss the spooge.

[kbreese]

After researching it and emailing the techs at the companies themselves I am definitely going with Amsoil Interceptor. It can be used for all seasons in all temps and can be stored, and it seems Amsoil has one of the highest quality and cleanest oils out there and they do a lot of research and testing which they are very open about. Its also the one oil I've never heard a bad thing about, unlike every other oil I looked into...

[Jason Hall]

I have found that most any salesman, or tech that works for a company will tell you that their product Is the best. I use the what works for me approach. I have been a machanic for 20 years. I maintain a fleet of 13 concrete mixers, and have had MANY oil salesmen In my shop telling me their oil Is the best for my Allison Transmissions. The truth Is, they will tell you what you want to hear, and do what ever It takes to make the sale. When you have seen the difference's from one product to another, and see that one product Is better, thats what you stick with. I use HP2, and will Never use another oil In my bike's :beer

Amsoil Is probably a great product. I have seen first hand that some company's can do amazing things with oil additive's. I use Lubrication Engineering Transmission oil In our Mixer's, because It does not break down like other oils. I had a competitor come In with one of their beekers & a propane torch and try to burn up my LE oil. They left feeling Very silly, because there Is not a better oil made for my application even In a synthetic!!!

Good luck with your oil choice. I'm not saying you should not use It. I do think that If you decide to use It then stick with It. I wonder why the guy from Klotz told you what he did? Is he going to work for a different company? Or Is the product he recommended more expensive?

[kbreese]

I was also strongly considering HP2 until I read this:


The difference between HP2 and Amsoil line of 2-cycle engine oils are like night and day. First, HP2 is a petroleum based lubricant which is adequate but if you are looking for better lubricity, heat resistantancy, cleaner engines, increase in performance these are some of the things that make Amsoil products stand out in front of the competition. Because Amsoil uses nothing but the finest synthetic base stocks- and they are lots of so called synthetic engine oils on the market that call themselves synthetics but which are hydro-refined petroleum base stocks- industry has approved this base stock to be referred as a synthetic from a lawsuit between Mobil 1 and Castrol in 1999 which I could expand on this subject in the future. These Group III base stocks DO NOT perform as well as a genuine Polyalphoelfin (PAO) base stocks Group IV. Then Amsoils uses custom mfg. synthetic additives and chocks each quart full of them. It is my opinion and others that by running a leaner ratio of Honda HP2 could result in piston failure (overheating). With Amsoil Series 2000 2-Cycle Race Oil 50:1 would be the ideal mix ratio.


OK, here it is: vitually all lubricant mfg's use what is known as Group III basestocks which is hydroprocessed petroleum oil. These basestocks DO NOT perform as well, DO NOT provide the smaller wear scar, DO NOT provide extended drain intervals, DOES contain isomerized hydrocarbon waxes, DOES contain contaminants, DOES contain friction modifiers and molydeumdisulfides (stabilzers). A lawsuit changed the defintion of "synthetic" lubricants in 1999 when Mobil 1 sued Castrol over a change in Castrol's synthetic oil, Castrol changed from Group IV basestocks to Group III to save production costs so Mobil sued them. The court side with Castrol and said they were allowed to refer Group III as a "synthetic". So from that day forward the consumer has been led to beleive that if was printed synthetic on the label that it was that---WRONG!!! Amsoil uses a very high quailty Group IV basestock and custom additive package that is the difference---APPLES and ORANGES.

[Afrothunderkat]

In case anyone comes across this via google search (as i did)

I ride year-round, I use Klotz ST at 32:1 in both my 85 250r and 03 RM 250. My plugs are chocolate brown, little bit of spooge. I have not had any issues with separation. Also, I see alot of people using klotz and saying 40:1 fixes there spoodge. DO NOT DO THIS. Keep in mind smokers make peek power 16-18:1. This is not at all feasible and takes perfect tuning/conditions. Pick a ratio and JETT for that ratio

Dead thread is dead, but I figured I'd save people time with this info.

[ceaserthethird]

I really Like Honda HP2, 40:1 seems to be the ticket. Try a few different kinds of oils.

[shovelryder]

Ive been using wal marts off brand for many many yrs.....never an issue. In my old harleys, cars, atvs..........Ill stay with that......