250r clutch basket questions. loose basket!!!!??? VIDEO

[2quicktecate]

as you might have read in another thread my 250r has a little rattle, i pulled the clutch cover to see if it could be the counter balancer or bearing holder, and all of them are good and tight. but the clutch basket has alot of play, i know on my tecate's they have a little if you rotate forward and back. this one is pretty loose and wiggles in and out up and down and forward and back, seems looser than it should. you can even see where the basket gear is rubbing/ contacting the kicker gear.. Could this be the rattle?? it runs great the clutch works fine, just wondering if this is normal or if i'm missing a washer.. please let me know what you think and how i should go about correcting it. i'm hopeing this will get rid of this intermittent rattle knocking sound when the motor has no load on it..
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee291/vwgli16vracer/th_MOV01870.jpg (http://s235.photobucket.com/albums/ee291/vwgli16vracer/?action=view&current=MOV01870.flv)

[2quicktecate]

in that video you can hear it when i'm giving it that little bit of throttle

[Autophysn]

dude, I am kind of un-experienced in this area, cause I have yet to do a clutch on my bike. But I think you may have stummbled on to something here. I remember everyone saying the noise is normal and not to worry about it, but my bike doesn't have that rattle. I am very interested in finding out what everyone has to say about this. Good investigation work bro, thumbs up ;)

[Nick_R_23]

The reason the clutch basket has play is because the rubber dampers between the basket and gear are worn out.

This image is from bansheehq and is a Yamaha clutch but same idea. This is with the backing plate removed to expose the rubber dampers.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/Nick_R_23/2007_1022Raptor0006.jpg

-Nick :TrikesOwn

[Autophysn]

The reason the clutch basket has play is because the rubber dampers between the basket and gear are worn out.

This image is from bansheehq and is a Yamaha clutch but same idea. This is with the backing plate removed to expose the rubber dampers.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/Nick_R_23/2007_1022Raptor0006.jpg

-Nick :TrikesOwn

That sounds good in theory, but on the parts breakdown, I don't see anything like that. There is a washer and needle bearings that look like if they where worn, would cause the basket to be loose, or even if the basket it'self is worn.

Dude, can you take the basket off and take some pictures? I bet just by removing the basket, you will find the problem. But since you have gone that far anyway, you may as well pull it and check everything out. At this point, if you do go back together with it, you will kick yourself in the ass if the noise is still there. Plus you can eliminate the basket as the cause, and give you peace of mind.

I know where you are coming from, little things like that drive me batty!
Up to you, but if you don't have a book for it, get one, download it, or whatever.

No offense Nick, I just don't see it. I also can not get a decent picture of the back of the basket, but even so, there really is nothing for the basket to ride on back there. the basket does have a gear between it and the pressure plate, then the basket is splined to another gear that rides on bearings and fitted to the shaft. The wear point between the splined gear and the basket would mean those rubber bushings you are talking about, would have to be very very small.

Unless you are talking about those rubbers acting like some sort of cushion, for when the clutch hooks up, then I can see that working. But the whole basket would not be loose like he says. It would only have lateral movement vs forward and back movement.

If I am wrong, please feel free to kick me in the teeth! LOL! It wouldn't be the first time hahahahaha!


I really wish I could copy and paste the parts break down, but I am having a hard time, and I am sure someone else here will do it. My copy will not allow me to copy the page from the manual. Sorry

But I really think you have busted needle bearings on the shaft for that wobble to be there in all directions.

Keep us/me (ha ha) informed on what happens, Now I am really interested:beer

[Daddio]

I Think I know what it is. It is probably a combination of the needle bearing that the clutch assy rides on and wear between the gear that slides into the clutch hub. It is fairly common.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/lrdunlap/100_0347.jpg

Also this thread touches on this subject.

http://www.3wheelerworldforums.com/showthread.php?t=84453

[Nick_R_23]

No offense Nick, I just don't see it. I also can not get a decent picture of the back of the basket, but even so, there really is nothing for the basket to ride on back there. the basket does have a gear between it and the pressure plate, then the basket is splined to another gear that rides on bearings and fitted to the shaft. The wear point between the splined gear and the basket would mean those rubber bushings you are talking about, would have to be very very small.

I dont know if the Honda clutches are set up the same way, but you wont be able to see it from a parts diagram. Only way to get to those rubber pieces is to drill and punch out the rivets and take off the backing plate. Usually you wont do this unless you are installing a new basket to the OEM gear.


Unless you are talking about those rubbers acting like some sort of cushion, for when the clutch hooks up, then I can see that working. But the whole basket would not be loose like he says. It would only have lateral movement vs forward and back movement.


That is thier purpose, is to cushion the basket. As it gets used, they wear down and the basket begins to have play. If you grab the basket in one hand and gear in the other then you should be able to twist it back and forth about 1/4" if they are worn. But again, I dont know how Honda has these baskets set up.

-Nick :TrikesOwn

[2quicktecate]

thanks for the hel guys. i'm gonna pull the basket and let you all know what i figure out.. thanks again. i will post pics if i can get my cam to work

[2quicktecate]

ok pulled the basket, everything looks good, i seem to have an 86 motor according to the manual. the clutch gear and crank gear seem to be rubbing a bit too. i may just put another washer between the basket and trans bearings, i don't know tell me what you guys think

[2quicktecate]

ok it has a mixture of 85-86 parts i think. the sleeve that goes on the tranny first looks to be 86 then it has 2 seperate bearings like 85 minus the spacer in the middle of them. the 86 had a double row one piece bearing right? the play in the basket is coming from the gear splines that slide into the basket, i think its normal, my engine noise must be coming from a loosly bored cyl. so i'm gonna run it and see what happens. the piston looks fairly new through the exhaust and intake ports. it's also roughly ported, could that cause any noise? thanks for all the help, i'm new to 2 stroke honda's i know the tecate motor inside and out...

Darin

[2quicktecate]

sorry for so many post's but is has an 86 outer guide and 85 needle bearings minus the spacer, should i get the 86 bearing and call it good or just put it back together as it was... everything looks new such as basket disks bearings. my trike is dated jan of 1985. but it must have been opened up to have miss matched parts

[2quicktecate]

should the waterpump shaft has a little resistance? theres no bearing wobble but it doesn't spin totally freely. feels like a new car water pump, kinda takes a lil effort to turn.

[Red Rider]

should the waterpump shaft has a little resistance? theres no bearing wobble but it doesn't spin totally freely. feels like a new car water pump, kinda takes a lil effort to turn.I assume you're spinning the waterpump with the clutch cover removed. Yes you will feel resistance due to the mechanical seal that rubs against the backside of the waterpump impeller.

Does this bike have a Hinson or aftermarket clutch basket? With a Hinson clutch basket, they require you to grind a 45 degree chamfer on the crank gear. Otherwise it will rub against the clutch basket as you described. I listened to your video, and I don't hear any other rattle other than the normal noises that 85-89 250R's make. Good luck!

[2quicktecate]

it might be a hinson the crank gear does have a chamfer on it, i thought it was from rubbing but it looks to clear is fairly well. thanks for the help. i put it all back together the way it was.. just wanted to check the balancer bearings. everything seems fine.. thanks again for the help

[beets442]

Hate to say it, but it sounds to me like the main could have a little play. No? Some 250's seemed to rattle more than others but, they always run best before they blow! Not funny I know. Funny He He , not Ha Ha!!!

[Autophysn]

Hate to say it, but it sounds to me like the main could have a little play. No? Some 250's seemed to rattle more than others but, they always run best before they blow! Not funny I know. Funny He He , not Ha Ha!!!

I am kinda new to the 250r world myself, man, that is scary, cause my bike seems to be running great He He

anyway, so what happened 2quick? Is the noise still there?

[2quicktecate]

noise is still there. there was no main play. i had the clutch and flywheel covers off and can't move the crank. i guess i'll see if she blows... ha ha! my tecate is pist at me because i'm riding and loving on the R and not her, just hate beating the beautiful tecate that i worked so hard on...

[peter250r]

in that video, that was the left side of the trike - the flywheel is on that side. the clutch is on the rightside. if the engine was running while the clutch cover was off oil would be pouring out.

[2quicktecate]

i never said that.. never ran it at all with the clutch cover off, i guess i should of for a second.. oh wel. you can hear the noise oll over. i'm gonna run it

[beets442]

I think you'll be O.K. Back in the 70's. The old Maico's, Bultaco's, and Penton's all had that type of rattle. Ran like rape apes. Ride man ride!!!!