Ice Tires.. and a few more ???'s

[chris200x]

So I was wondering what size tires most of you guys plan on running for this winter. I see the cheng shins are available in 18x9.5x8, 20x11x9 or 22x8x10.

http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/tpl/tire/atvtireproduct.jsp?skuId=640009&store=Main&catId=&productId=p642091&leafCatId=&mmyId=

I have both 8 and 9 inch rims I can use,, and my bike is already geared for the 20" mudlights I'm running for the trails... but that odd 9.5" on the 18 inch tires has me a bit confused. I'm not sure if they'll fit on the rims I have available.

SO I guess my question is should I just go with the 20's?

Would running 18's make that much of a diffrence? would I have to go with a +2 over stock front sprocket to compensate?

Anyone know off hand how many studs each of those cheng shin knobbies take? (# of knobs per tire?)

I already have a front studded with regular sheet metal screws. It seemed to work pretty good last year up at raffa's ice fest.. Would I be able to restud them with cold cutters without running into any problems?
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e137/chrisr200x/2008_0418racesSunday0155-2.jpg

I'll have a few more questions but we'll start off with these couple first. :TrikesOwn

[88 Turbo Coupe]

Popular size is 18x9.5-8 chens 826. 8x8 wheels. 320 screws per tire. You might have a sealing problem. Use silcone under the head or go with a screw with a larger shank.

[eddie pettengil]

I would run the 18 inch tires and adjust the gearing with sprockets. 18 inch tires will get you lower to the ground than the 20 inch tire (lower is better). The cheng shins 18x9.5x8 will take 320 studs per tire. One stud per nobby. Get rid of the sheet metal screws and do it right. I would screw the new studs in different holes on the front (just in case). I think your 8 inch rim will work fine.

[chris200x]

thanks guys.. Eddie, I believe I used sheet metal screws what were pretty long (over an inch) on the front. so if I took them out I'd have to use the cold kutters in the same holes.

My next questions have to do with lowering the 350x. ChrisD touched on it last year up at raffa's but I probably had too many Blue Moon's in me to remember that coversation. :rolleyes:

I've never been inside a set of forks before. What exactly needs to be done with the front. (I know about sliding the forks up in the triples) but I believe some of those guys took the caps off the forks and either removed the spacers or the springs. Can someone refresh my memory on what exactly needs to be done.

What about the rear shock? Is a lowering link needed or is one available? Or is there a diffrent (or cheaper way) to go about lowering down the rear end.

Thanks guys... I'm gettin pumped about getting out on the ice this year. Hopefully I got over my fears and wont be running for the shore when the ice pops this time around. :lol: :w00t: :beer

[brapp]

chris i just pulled the 3 inch spring off the front ther eisnt much airtime ont he lake and theb u can turn the preload down alot and take soem of the travek out of the rear shock.

[chris200x]

chris i just pulled the 3 inch spring off the front ther eisnt much airtime ont he lake and theb u can turn the preload down alot and take soem of the travek out of the rear shock.

Someone want to translate that into English for me?! :rolleyes: :lol: :lol: :lol: Sorry bud.. I couldn't resist! :beer

The preload? Is that the knob on the shock rezzy or the adjustment on top of the spring? what's that little black knob on the bottom of the shock for?

[eddie pettengil]

Chris, I did the same thing years ago. I used 1 inch screws in the front tires. Last year I took all the screws out and tried to stud them again and it leaked bad. I ended up buying a tube for the tire and used 1/2 inch studs. It worked great.

You are going to be really sorry if you get the good ice racing tires on the back and not do the front the right way. You will have so much grip on the rear and the front will just slide.

These other mods you want to do will be useless untill you get a good set of studded tires all the way around the trike.

[honda250sx]

18 chengs shins, 8x8 rim.
500 screws per tire.
Sheet metal screws ain't cutting the mustard.
Get some kold kutters.
I personally use shoegoe. Its a rubber cement product. Sold @ home depot.
15-20 psi in each rear. Don't want any side wall flex.

[honda250sx]

18's will allow you to slide in the corners. 20's provide too much traction.

[chris200x]

Hmm,, I thought I remember hearing that you could remove the rear shock linkage to lower the rear. can't remeber tho..

So would I also have to replace the chain going up to a bigger front sprocket? Looks as if I'll be spending a few hundred on these mods so I wanna make sure I get it right the first time.

I noticed last year I had a wobble running those wheel spacers. Where the heck do I get the right fine thread metric bolts to properly run the stock rims with the tapered lugnuts??? Someone posted a link a while back but I cannot find it.

Oh btw... one guys says 500 per tire another says 320?!?! :lol: 1000 screws wont be enough to properly stud 3 new tires? :confused:

[honda250sx]

To run a good pattern you will need 500 per tire. 320 not sure where that came from. Maybe he counted lugs? I run two per lug in some areas. But I run a certain pattern. I also do things to the lugs. And run the pattern a certain way to make sure the ice is clearing properly.

You need metric 10 x 1.25mm pitch bolts. Not sure how long. Not sure what spacers you are running. If there the plastic ones I'd junk them. They ain't worth a hoot.

Possibly get some 300ex style hubs I think it is. That should put you near the width you have with spacers. You probably have 3+5 offset wheels right?

[chris200x]

I was using these spacers. 2 3/4". With the offset on the OMF beadlocks I was a tad over 52" across the back. :pics: The stock rims I have take the tapered lugnut.

The only grade 8 bolts I can find locally were standard. Gotta be at least 4 1/4" or longer....

I'd just be using one stud per knob on those tires.. those screws are expensive.

[88 Turbo Coupe]

320 lugs on the chens, 1 screw per....

[fabiodriven]

I'm hearin alot of hate towards the plastic wheel spacers. Are they that bad? I've got a set and was planning on running 'em on the ice. Is that a bad idea?

[chris200x]

To run a good pattern you will need 500 per tire. 320 not sure where that came from. Maybe he counted lugs? I run two per lug in some areas. But I run a certain pattern. I also do things to the lugs. And run the pattern a certain way to make sure the ice is clearing properly.

You need metric 10 x 1.25mm pitch bolts. Not sure how long. Not sure what spacers you are running. If there the plastic ones I'd junk them. They ain't worth a hoot.

Possibly get some 300ex style hubs I think it is. That should put you near the width you have with spacers. You probably have 3+5 offset wheels right?

If you get a chance can you post a pic of the tire pattern you ran? :pics:

Fabio.. Those spacers should be just fine if your only ice racing..

My buddy that I ride with has a 300ex.. never crossed my mind about checking the hubs. :idea: :welcome:

[ChrisD]

Hi Chris......


ChrisD touched on it last year up at raffa's but I probably had too many Blue Moon's in me to remember that coversation. :lol: We did drink a lot of beer.

I don't know if your X is an 85 or 86 and I do not have a 350X, but I do remember my friend removing the block that connects the shock to the swingarm and bolting the shock directly to the swingarm and it lowered the bike perfectly......see attached pic. As you can see, his was an 85. The 85 250R and I believe the 85X also had the same front spring set up. It is a 2 stage spring setup. You can remove the 3 inch spring and it will lower the front end perfectly. My R is an 86, so I bought a set of 85 front springs off ebay for $15. It's the ticket.

http://home.comcast.net/~atc330rrider/image/hrcrand350x1989.jpg

DO NOT UNSTUD YOUR TIRE!!! If it hooked with the sheet metal screws, then great. Once you take them out and replace them with new anything (sheet metal screws, kold kutters, etc) you will most likely cross thread the screw in the tire and it will be prone to spitting the studs. Once you stud them, always leave them alone.

The 20 inch cheng shins are too much for a three wheeler. It will cause you to plow the front end. It gets too much traction. You can try the 20's if you like and you may like it, but for me, I powerslide the rear around the corners.

If you need evidence that the 18's work well....please review the following race...there were a couple guys racing and I loaned my extra set of 18's to one of them.....:naughty: ...i do believe he won the race...by a lot...:lol: Man, it was wet that day!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7iM--zPnGM

The 300ex hubs will add about 11/2 inches to each side. If your buddy's hubs fit, let me know. I have an extra set that I bought for my 85R, but the 250R axel does not fit the hub. I can give them to you, but you will have to wait until after Christmas. I have to get up to the other house to get them.

[fabiodriven]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you guys talking about removing springs from the forks? I just slid mine up in the tripples like 4 inches or so. Bad idea?

[brapp]

you can slid them or remove spings on top but the chris d russ beat us by alot cause chrisr and i wer eboth runnign sheet matal screws

[ChrisD]

I was just joking with Chris, but yes, Russ did win because of the Kold Kutters. It will be fun to see you guys again this winter. If things don't freeze, we will have to do a winter ride. I just got my trailer back last weekend and am all ready to go.

[thefox]

I don't think EX hubs work on the 350X, the spline count is different. I'm not 100% sure on that so hopefully someone else will chime in with what will fit but I do remember hearing something about that.

On second thought, if nobody else checks I can tomorrow.

[chris200x]

Thanks for that info again Chris!! I'm an 85, with an 86 frame. I gotta get my bike back down the house here so I can mess around with shocks to see how low I can get her... shouldn't be too much trouble to swap things back if I feel the need to trail ride.

Since the front max that's on the front now is getting worn,, I'll just go ahead and stud that one,, and grab those 18" knobbies in a few weeks.

Thanks again for all the help guys!

Oh,, I dont even have to click on that link to know what it is... :lol: I think I did pretty good the few laps I was able to run until my eye lids froze shut from the spraying water. good times!!! :Bounce :beer

hey Fox... You writtin this stuff down! :lol: :TrikesOwn I can ask my buddy to check on those hubs. I probably wont be able to get up there till next weekend.

[honda250sx]

I have a set of those hubs too chris if they work. Some genious here said that 300ex hubs would fit a Z. Wrong. They dont :(

They are blasted and powdercoated red. I would definetly part with them.

If you buy tires Chris. check Magicracing.com. They offer them on rims for dirt cheap!

[sandpuppi101]

Here's a few of my pic's Chris,I started out on the R then the 350x and last year with the 600.I use the Ching seng C826 also,18x9.50x8 ,they work good and there solid.My R was the 1st year iceracing so I went with the sheet metal screw's too," I did'nt know",then I went with the cold cutter's the next year and what a differance.When I set up the 600 last year I put them with 2 per knob and patterened them too.I put a pattern in so there were more on the outside right ,less inside and on the left tire and I put more inside and less outside,LOL -you get that.I was hanging with the guy's on the ice 2 year's ago asking lot's of question's and checking out there set-up's.On the 350X I have set up in the pic I lowered it as far as I could ,with having any preassure on the spring and tied and it sat way down,I raised the front on it also,It just handled good for me like that,and ran my bar's lower.LOL,I was about dragging the ice,and I was 52" wide also.
The 600 I lowered also,with just more stud's.I have no clue how manystud's I put in there but it was a few cocktail's per,at least.Also I run a little less air in the inside tire ,to help in the slide's,there's afew more trick's but I gotta think of 'em 1st.Deffinatly go with the coldcutter's and if ya got screw's in there already,just leave 'em like SX ,I think said..

[SWIGIN]

I have a set of those hubs too chris if they work. Some genious here said that 300ex hubs would fit a Z. Wrong. They dont :(

They are blasted and powdercoated red. I would definetly part with them.

If you buy tires Chris. check Magicracing.com. They offer them on rims for dirt cheap!

they do but the honda hubs have to be worn (or your axle)...then they will fit snug on a yamaha axle.

i have seen this done since the late 80s and it works great.

[chris200x]

I never thought of just tying down the rear Roger. Great tip!!!

This whole talk of registrations in some other threads is really starting to ruin my buzz....

Never having to deal with "paperwork" before....

[honda250sx]

As a machinist with experience in gear/spline cutting. They are close but not close enough. They would have to be considered "junk" for a honda to work on a yamaha. The yamaha spline OD is about .015" to large.

I opted for a plus 4 banshee axle and then went with durablue hubs with honda pattern.

[ChrisD]

chris200x I never thought of just tying down the rear Roger. Great tip!!!

I would suggest against that. I have done it and so have some friends. You don't want to see what happens when the strap accidentially gets cought in the sprocket. It is not a good thing. I would try removing the block first.

[fabiodriven]

I personally use shoegoe. .

Is the purpose of the shoegoo to seal air or to hold the stud in the tire?

Is this the stuff?
http://www.biosafe-inc.com/shoegoo.htm

[DeePa]

john, yeah thats it...ill return your call at some point tomorrow...lil late now

[honda250sx]

Well yeah similar. Its a little different tube at HOME DEPOT

[fabiodriven]

Well yeah similar. Its a little different tube at HOME DEPOT

Does it seal the air or hold the stud in?

[honda250sx]

Acts as a sealer

[badasskfx]

chriss have you tried turning around the dog bone for the rear shock to see if that drops it down. not sure if it will work but its free to try....

[JohnR.]

What about the rear shock? Is a lowering link needed or is one available? Or is there a diffrent (or cheaper way) to go about lowering down the rear end.

Chris,

You can remove the "dog bone" on the rear of the 350X and put on of the bolts directly through the swingarm and shock without it just like ChrisD said. I have my '85 350X still sitting in the shed like that from last year at Raffa's house so if you need a pic of how its done just let me know and I'll get one for you.

In the front, I prefer to remove the upper springs. Its easier than sliding the forks up the triple clamps.

John

[Georgia Boy 666]

since i didnt read all the comments lol- that was alot for mr buweiser. i would use the hex head sheet metal screws that are 1/4 to 1/2 long but no more, depending on your tread depth " not the sheet-metal- just cause of the metric look to them- not enough grip into the tire :) and when you screw down the screws- drill out the centers just until it starts to take off the edge of the screw, makes it sharp, and unfortuntally hard to take back off lol