flushing a bottom end

[atctim]

Any words of advise for flushing out the bottom end of an 86 250R?

Mine ate a 2 inch piece of a clutch plate (aluminum and fiber). My oil is very silver metallic and there are sand sized pieces of aluminum all through everything.

My plans are to set the bike on it's side - fill cases with kerosine and turn over by hand (with the clutch basket out and the ride side cover off).

Then drain and do it again.

then put it all back together and run engine with oil / kerosine mixture for a couple minutes - then drain again and put oil in it - run it - then check oil again / change it.

This sound right? any tips / tricks from the pros?

Let me know.

[SWIGIN]

i have a sure fire tip to get it all out.........open up the cases and sleep good at night.

i have never done it (i always split cases) but i have seen guys do the kerosine thing but you never know 100% if its all out unless you open it up and look. i have torn motors down that were ''just flushed'' and they were still loaded with metal.

they always say......oh, but fluid was clean......... yeah right

[hondawasaki]

Yeah I'm with SWIGIN the only way to be sure is to open her up. It sounds like a lot of work, but you can have it done in a saturday, then you know for sure. Gaskets are expensive, but just try and price trans bearings......

[Tri-Z 250]

I have to agree...if you believe a 2" peice is in there...I'd make the choice to split it now and replace gaskets and broken clutch. If you run it and it gets wedged and granades the bottom end; you'll be kicking yourself for being cheap. Besides isn't it down time for the season for ya? SNOWING in PA...has to be. You got time before SUMMIT indoors...if your attending. I only flush out barn finds or used bikes just purched needing clutches. I believe the kero gets into the fiberplates and changes there ablity to work properly after they get hot post flush.

[88 Turbo Coupe]

You might consider flushing it under pressure with the clutch removed. Buy a 1 gallon pump sprayer from the garden center. With the wand you can get inside the engine or remove the engine and put it in a safety clean tank.

[Dirtcrasher]

I'd split it and clean every single piece thoroughly and put it back together. Hate to lose a more vital part from overlooking something!

[ATC-Eric]

My worries are with your bearings...........

[SWIGIN]

You might consider flushing it under pressure with the clutch removed. Buy a 1 gallon pump sprayer from the garden center. With the wand you can get inside the engine or remove the engine and put it in a safety clean tank.


and thats easier and better then spliting the case? gaskets arnt that much money, just seems like a LONG way to go to still have a good chance of metal in your motor.

not to mention that you could only get a sprayer to hit a few spots

[max]

Call me asap!!

[88 Turbo Coupe]

and thats easier and better then spliting the case? gaskets arnt that much money, just seems like a LONG way to go to still have a good chance of metal in your motor.

not to mention that you could only get a sprayer to hit a few spots

Just an alternative to splitting the cases. Some people can and maybe some people can't.

[Dirtcrasher]

Atctim has been around awhile, has lots of trikes and seems to use his head......

I imagine he just doesn't "feel" like taking out the motor and splitting the case.... The 250R is one of the simplest of motors out there, but it's still a big giant PITA!!!!!!!

[88 Turbo Coupe]

How much damage can aluminium and fiber cause? It's alot softer than steel. Take your chances with it or start splitting. How long was your engine munching on the piece?

[Mosh]

Well, I agree,the best thing is to split the cases.
But if you are like me, it wont just be a few gaskets.
man once I am that deep into a motor, it gets anything that might be a problem.
I would definately go with a new crank and bearings and seals..As well as counter-balancer and bearings.

Here is something that may help you make the decision.Remove the stator cover and grab the flywheel....ANY movement and I would just split it and rebuild it.

If you want to take the shorcut.....
Hose that engine down with like 5 cans of brake cleaner.Get in every hole and crack you can..
Rinse it out,then install the clutch cover with the old gasket.
FILL the motor up to the dipstick hole with Auto trans fluid and bump the starter over repeatedly.....Drain and repeat at least 2 times total.Then drain again,and remove the cover,and re- rinse with brake clean.
Then assemble and fill the oil to the proper level and, drain the oil at least 2 times within a hour of running.
Tranny fluid will get things really clean.And by filling the engine up to the top,it will submerse all the bearings,and remove the shavings the best with out splitting.

But you will never get them all out.

[The Goat]

A lot of things are softer than steel and can still do a number on it.

I'm not even talking about precision machined stuff.

[fabiodriven]

I like the brakleen idea IF you're going to leave it together. I was doing the clutch in my ATC 110 last week and the clutch material was everywhere in there. It ain't exactly a racer so I just cleaned the inside of the cover and what I could see. I used brake cleaner and it totally dissolves the clutch material on contact.

If it were mine, I'd just spray the hell out of it and call it a day. It would be different (to me) if the stuff were lubing the crank and top-end. As we all know, though, the only real solution is disassembly.

[atctim]

Well - since this has nothing to do with the top end and crank bearings - I will just flush it. I already flushed it some with kerosene tonight - used an oil can "squirter" and took my time spraying lots back inside the tranny through 2 hole locations. It is sitting on it's side ride now for over-night. I will take Mosh's idea next (tranny fluid)- then just run it for small increments with very very frequent oil changes. The way I see it - the tranny already chomped up a big piece into sand grain sized pieces. I am sure frequent oil changes will eventually get most out.

I'll keep you all posted on how it works.

Keep in mind - there are crank seals in there to keep this stuff out of the crank bearings.

Rob - I just checked my crank bearings not more than 5 ride hours ago - I'll check them again to see if this did any damage - if there is any play - then I will take the appropriate rebuild precautions (keeping my fingers crossed). I was hearing this "noise" for about 3-4 ride hours prior to tear down. The actual noise I was hearing was the 2 broken discs still in the basket.

Thanks for the input guys!

[Mosh]

I think you will be fine with flushing.
It just seems like, every 2 stroke I get has the left side crank bearing loose from improper stator cover sealing.
So anymore,as soon as I get one,that is the first thing I check.
If your crank bearings are tight, I would go with the flushing method too.

Tripod's motor was a disaster last year when I redid the kicker and clutch and top end.

I mean, black goo with all kinds of metal shards in the trans case.
I flushed the hell out of it, and he rode it all of this year with no problems.

You can't get too sexy with this stuff.

Knowing him,it probably has the same oil in the trans, I put in there when I built it...LMAO.

[88 Turbo Coupe]

Is this a stock engine or do you have a small fortune sunk into it?

[Daddio]

My worries are with your bearings...........

My thoughts exactly. If you have sand sized pieces in there they are in the bearings too. It's enough trying to get crap out of a bearing that is in your hand let alone inside the engine.
Sorry but I tend to side with Rob on this one. This past summer when 1upfront melted down his clutch rod in the 300 and we had to split the cases to get it out we checked all of the bearings and found several that had some roughness in them. It was probably from clutch debris left from when he smoked the clutch earlier in the spring. We flushed it then and thought it would be okay. If we wouldn't have had to split the cases it probably would have made it through the rest of the year but then again...
He already had all of the gaskets and bearings so we just replaced them. PITA but it's good for next year already.