Tpc 450r

[ChrisCrash]

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff223/motomanimal32/DSC03532.jpg

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[Bigbore]

Looks good.:beer Looks like it ran better than the others you were running against. Are you going to start making a small run of frames? Nice project.

[ChrisCrash]

Any questions will have to be answered by Bill. He is at another message board. Can I say the Name? I do know the rider with the red helmet is Chuck, one of our other riders


Thank You,
Jeff.

[atctim]

Being on the line and racing against this machine, I can give my thoughts about it (these are just my opinions, so please - no flames). Upon the first gate drop, it took a MASSIVE holeshot (that is the picture you see above coming out of turn one in front of everyone). Keep in mind though - Holeshots are alot more rider than machine. Regardless - there were two other 450cc 4 stroke trikes in this race. Being as though Smith Road raceway is a really old school race track, I am not sold that this new machine has any handling advantages over a standard 250R on that track. Not saying that on a more hard core track with bigger jumps - I am sure it would really outshine any "dated" ATC250R but in that specific race - the only BIG advantage would be the power and torque curve. Alot can be said about any trike that can run with a 250R on a track and not even change gears!

It is a great bike for sure. I hope to see more and more of the builds like these in the future. It was a great day to see this bike, Jason Hall's CRF450 based trike, and Derrick Adam's tri-z based 450 all on the same gate.

good times boys, good times!

See you all at Summit Indoor. 3 months away :)

[WIkid500]

Wow very nice! Looks like it rips too :) Where did the forks come from?

[Ryan.]

wow, that is simply the most amazing trike i have yet to see...

[Blown 331]

Being on the line and racing against this machine, I can give my thoughts about it (these are just my opinions, so please - no flames). Upon the first gate drop, it took a MASSIVE holeshot (that is the picture you see above coming out of turn one in front of everyone). Keep in mind though - Holeshots are alot more rider than machine. Regardless - there were two other 450cc 4 stroke trikes in this race. Being as though Smith Road raceway is a really old school race track, I am not sold that this new machine has any handling advantages over a standard 250R on that track. Not saying that on a more hard core track with bigger jumps - I am sure it would really outshine any "dated" ATC250R but in that specific race - the only BIG advantage would be the power and torque curve. Alot can be said about any trike that can run with a 250R on a track and not even change gears!

It is a great bike for sure. I hope to see more and more of the builds like these in the future. It was a great day to see this bike, Jason Hall's CRF450 based trike, and Derrick Adam's tri-z based 450 all on the same gate.

good times boys, good times!

See you all at Summit Indoor. 3 months away :)

So how did the 450s place in that race? You said the 450 had a power advantage. What more powerful 2-strokes were in that race?
And as far as handing goes you gotta remember the TRX250R has the same rear suspension as the ATC250R. And still today 250R handling seems to be what other quads are always compared to. What I'm saying is 250Rs handle damn good, but you gotta think the front inverts gotta help on "newer ATCs", I'd say rear suspension is debatable if you update the 250R shock but I'd says the linkage is up to par with anything today or at least close.

[SYKO]

well my thoughts on this and Bill knows is that I like it... I will be talking to him next year about my thoughts.

[atctim]

So how did the 450s place in that race?
Not sure about overall - but heat 1 Jason Hall's 450 came in first


You said the 450 had a power advantage. What more powerful 2-strokes were in that race?
Kintore's got a power valved 250R with MX port work - and Lou had his CR500 Powered ATC in the race. Keep in mind - on a track like this - a smooth torque curve is what you want - and that is exactly what these new 4 strokes offer.


And as far as handing goes you gotta remember the TRX250R has the same rear suspension as the ATC250R. And still today 250R handling seems to be what other quads are always compared to.

All 3 of the new 4 strokes are running very expensive rear shocks - like Elkas and the like - not sure on specifics - but high dollar stuff - way better than stock. All 3 I believe are running TRX450 swingers I think. Compared to TRX and 86 ATC250R set ups - they seem kind of "dated"


What I'm saying is 250Rs handle damn good, but you gotta think the front inverts gotta help on "newer ATCs", I'd say rear suspension is debatable if you update the 250R shock but I'd says the linkage is up to par with anything today or at least close.

I agree - and I am not talking smack on any 250R - heck - that is what I am running - but they are far from what these guys have. When you come off a 60' table top or some big arse doubles - I bottom out my rear shock all the time - these guys may have a tougher time bottoming theirs out. Know what I mean, Jellybean?

[Louis Mielke]

Overall was Jason Hall in first on his Aluminum framed ATC450r, myself in second on my ATC500r, CORRECTION: Bill took 3rd overall on the TPC450r.

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I would like to add that everyone raced their guts out that day and there was a few pile ups and some mechanical failure for several people. I would expect the overall to be very different with different circumstances. I know myself placed 6th first moto and then the planets, stars and moons aligned perfectly and lady luck let me take first in moto 2.

Everyone had an excellent race.

[thefox]

I had the pleasure of riding the TPC 450 a few weeks back, I think I am still smiling from it. I just went for a few laps around a small practice track but it was a blast. I rode it with the stock swinger and shock and although the shock valveing felt fine to me the short (stock) swinger was a bit harry. Yes the rear of a 250R could be upgraded to match the 450R, but the front is no match. The inverts on the 450R work terrific, I think that is the best upgrade over all. The power of the 450 is great (of course) but personally I don’t need that much (but it’s nice!), it’s the front end that impressed me the most.

[Dirtcrasher]

DAMMIT!!!!!!!!! I hate living in MASS, you guys get all the fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!


AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG GHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

Sorry, I'm just jealous as hell. :(

[keister]

DAMMIT!!!!!!!!! I hate living in MASS, you guys get all the fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!! :(

DC,
Pick a holiday next summer (Memorial, July 4, or Labor Day) and hit Smith Road. I guarantee you won't regret it.

[AJZ_200X]

Sick machine man:beer Nice fab. work - you definitely got my vote for the nicest trike!

[fabiodriven]

DC,
Pick a holiday next summer (Memorial, July 4, or Labor Day) and hit Smith Road. I guarantee you won't regret it.

I might run that with ya, DC.

[300rman]

I nominate a slot in the Top Tier Showcase. !!!

[brapp]

hey binghamton honda isnt that far from me? its only an hour or less possibly.

[ChrisCrash]

At Smith Road, both Bill and Chuck finished 3rd overall. Bill was leading his first race until he stalled it. I'm not sure what hapened in his second race. Chuck was in 2nd his first race untill he stalled it. He won his second race. Neither Bill or Chuck had a lot of time on it. We did not get it finished until days before the race.


Here is some more info on it...


Chassis;

Frame............................................. .............06 TRX/TPC conversion
Triples........................................... ..............Wiess Racing/TPC
Front Hub W/Dual Bearings.........................TiogaTool/TPC
Front axle.............................................. ......Tioga Tool/TPC
Front wheel............................................. ....ITP T-9 Pro 10"
Front Suspension........................................ 06 CRF modified 11.3" travel
Rear Shock............................................. .....PEP 11.5" travel
Swingarm.......................................... ..........Custom +1" Walsh savior link
R. Axle.............................................. ...........RPM Dominator 2
Axle Carrier........................................... .......PRM millennium/Tapered Bearings
R Wheels............................................ .........Hiper 8" dual beadlocks

Engine;

Crank............................................. .............Stock 06 TRX
Piston............................................ ..............Stock 06 TRX
Head.............................................. .............Stock 06 CRF
Pipe.............................................. ...............HRC Titanium
Silencer.......................................... .............Pro Circuit Titanium
Carb.............................................. .............07 CRF 450 41mm FCR W/ R&D Float bowl/Accelerator pump, Works Connection Fuel screw, moose magnetic drain plug.

Filter cover............................................. ....Moose magnetic.
Air Filter............................................ ..........UNI
Air Box............................................... .........Insane Performance Aluminum
Radiators......................................... ...........Fluideyne 4 core 06 CRF
Radiator Hoses...........................................CV 4 silicone

Controls;

Handlebars........................................ ........Pro Taper CR low bend
levers............................................ ............ASV
Grips............................................. .............Renthal medium custom shaved
Front brakes............................................ ..Stock 06 CRF 450R
Rear brakes............................................ ...Stock 06 TRX rotor and caliper, +2" streamline SS brake line, RPM anti fade Hub, Moose block off plate, Faset Clevis. Pro Circuit aluminum reservoir

Misc;

Clutch cover............................................. ...Sick 450's
Front master cylinder cap.......................... Sick 450's
Fork guard screws......................................Red anodized aluminum
Fork clamp bolts.........................................Tita nium
Grab Bar............................................... ......PRM Baja
Chain & sprockets......................................Sid ewinder Ti 2 & smart chain
case saver............................................. .....billet aluminum

[Louis Mielke]

I stand corrected.

[Derrick Adams]

Just for the record my Tri-Z 450 runs a stock TRX450R rear shock. No expensive unit here. (YET)

[dlgorie@yahoo.c]

very nice trikes. just curious would anyone consider selling or building me a 450 based trike and roughly how much it would cost???

[TriMotoMan]

Awesome Bike!, looks like it just rolled off the show room floor

[dlgorie@yahoo.c]

well i sold some toys and want another one so a 450 trike would be the ticket

[greythorn3]

sweet! sounds likea good one!

[Blown 331]

I'm not 100% sure but I think that was the idea behind the TPC450 (Three-wheeled Performance Cycle 450 if memory serves me corectly). Once they get it where they want it I think they will be trying to sell them...or kits to make one...or something like that.

I would be interested in a kit depending on price, had had the first TRX450R sold out of a particular dealer back in Jan of 04 so I know how they run.
Kinda ironic. I was on this site back when the 450 quads came out and it seem like most people on here dogged them and prefered the 250R, my how times change! :)

[SYKO]

well I still much prefer a 2 stoke... the problem being is parts... even now the 250R based parts are starting to fade out... much nicer to have a "newer" machine that parts will still be avail for years to come.... even if its a 4 stroke....sigh....

[Jason Hall]

I'll admit I was one of the guys that talked up the 250r. After building the 4 stroke 3 wheeler I feel different. I have to say my 2 stroke would still win In a all out drag race. For trails and MX there Is no comparison to the smooth quick revving power of the modern 450's. The power Is even throughout the rpm range without the low end bog then light switchy transition of a modded 2 stroke.

[edog]

I would be interested in a kit depending on price, had had the first TRX450R sold out of a particular dealer back in Jan of 04 so I know how they run.
Kinda ironic. I was on this site back when the 450 quads came out and it seem like most people on here dogged them and prefered the 250R, my how times change! :)

Your going to need a loan.

[300rman]

modern 450's. .

think if that much R+D was put into the 2 stoke motors. they remained mostly unchanged, and when honda came out with the new design in 02, they didnt refine it long enough to get the bugs worked out.
with that much R+D, they would still be miles ahead.

my buddy rides a CRF450. its a great trail bike, but for racing, i have converted him back to 2 strokes. you just cant beat the weight difference, it is MUCH easier to handle.
2 strokes require more talent to ride, and this is why most riders turn much faster lap times on a 4 stroke. the TRUELY fast riders will be faster on a faster bike, but most will be faster on a slower bike.

if i had money, i would get a 450 for trail riding. but between the cost of the bike, and the cost of maintenance, ill stick with the 2 stroke.

[Jason Hall]

In 02 the CRF450 was 12 pounds heavier than the CR250. I know for a fact that the later model 450's are lighter than the 02's. I don't agree at all that a TRULEY faster rider would be faster on a 2 stroke. The power of the crf engine Is SOO smooth It Is SIMPLE to get It to the ground. Once the fast rider realizes he no longer has to shift his butt off to keep In the power he will automaticaly be faster on the modern 450. I broke my shifter off at TF 07, and ran the small MX track at Haspin In 4th gear. I usually run 3rd and 4th only at Smith Rd and 4th and 5th at my practice track (other than the holeshot of course).

My only complaint with the new 450 Is that the upkeep Is far more expensive. If you keep your air filter clean, and change the oil regularly It's not that bad. I put stainless valve's In my CRF engine and keep an extra filter oiled and ready, thats the key to long life from the valve slammin 4 stroke's. These 450's turn more RPM's than the old 2 stroke's. At 13,000 RPM's your valve's close about 80 time's a second so keep your filters CLEAN :beer

[atctim]

Jason is right - I agree with him. There is now way that the top pros could possibly turn faster times on two strokes than the new 4 strokes. Technology took over.

Although - if you want to see 2 stroke technology - look at the E-Tek snowmobile engines. They use Evinrude technology and are nothing shy of amazing.

People associate new 4 stroke motors with the heavy boat anchors of yester-year - the new ones are L I G H T and powerful - just the opposite of the old underpowered heavy powerplants.

[Curtis-Tecate3]

The only real problem is that you need to hang on to your wallet, checkbook, and credit cards if you blow one up.

Curtis.

[300rman]

i never said faster on a 2 stroke. i said faster on a faster bike.

and here is a bit of interesting info:
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r208/Lorne23/450vs500.jpg

[thefox]

Today I got to take the TPC450R out again, this time with the +2 swinger and matching rear shock. It was quite a bit different that what I remember it being last time witht the stock swinger and shock. Before just opening the throttle would pull the front end letting you know that it wanted to stand up. Now with the longer swinger that first ¼ throttle is usable as a trail machine, open it up more and you better hold on. I would defiantly go with the longer swinger; it makes the power more usable.

Now if you would excuse me, I have to go buy some lottery tickets and hope…


:w00t: :w00t: :w00t:

[Derrick Adams]

I sure don't understand that. I run a stock length swinger on my 450 with absolutely no problems keeping the front wheel down. And thats with a 12 tooth front sprocket. Maybe it's my 4 speed transmission though. Jason is running a stock length arm on his 450. Wonder if he has issues with it wheelieing like that.

I also don't know if I agree with the maintainence argument either. From what i've read on thumpertalk the Yamaha 450's are going 100 hours before even adjusting the valves. I've ran mine for 2 years and haven't touched it. (although I am rebuilding it this winter)

[Jason Hall]

Derrick, you know the Yamaha Is just special LOL. I think Honda Is just not steping up and using strong enough material for their valve's. I feel they are just relying on the loyalty of the Red riders to keep people buying, then picking their pockets with valve's that are not up to par. It kinda makes me mad :mad: If they (honda) were not raking In the cash selling their parts they would have made the change.

I love my bike just like It Is, I do have a stock swingarm and would never change It. It turns great, and Isn't a crazy wheelie machine. I think throttle control Is something that takes time to get used to.

300rman, My 2 oldest boys ride dirt bikes, one has a crf250, the other has a cr85. My 11 year old on the 85 has a hard time jumping In our yard because of the explosive power of the 2 stroke. He ends up with the bike hitting the power right at the lip of the jump sending the front end skyward. The 4 stroke Is faster off the turn (torque) and easy to manage because of the smooth power. I hope to have him on a crf150 by spring.

[ChrisCrash]

Hello,

Thanks for all the interest in the TPC 450R.

TPC does indeed stand for Three-wheeled Performance Cycle. We hope to be offering conversion kits and complete built-to-order Trikes by Jan 09. I'm also working on the website which will go live by Jan 09 as well. This and the message board is one of my jobs at TPC by the way.

The Trike in the picture was just finished in August of this year and we want to thoroughly test it in the next few months. I do know the swingarm was always intended to be replaced. However the accompanying shock did not arrive in time for our scheduled "first ride" reveal. Several people were invited to this ride and they all came away with the same impression: it needed a longer swingarm. For why I'll turn it over to Bill...





..."Why Derrick and Jason are happy with the stock TRX swingarm I can only speculate. For one, about the only thing they all have in common are that they have 450cc four-stroke motors on 3 wheels. After that, they are very different. They all use different chassis and this probably has a lot to do with it.

Both Jason and Derrick use 18" fast trekker tires. I'm not sure if they use other tires.

However, I use 18" turf tammers, which, from my experience, get a lot more traction than fast trekkers on tracks. And, other than Chuck, I'm the only other one to ride with them.

Everyone else has ridden with 20" Knarly tires which get a lot more traction.

If indeed both Jason and Derrick are using stock TRX swingarms then they only have around 9.5" of travel vs. the TPC 450R's 11.5". This can also play a part.

Then there are motor/tranny differences. I'm not sure what motor (quad or bike) Derrick uses but I believe Jason uses a 02 CRF 450 setup.

Whereas, I'm using a 06 TRX tranny and lower end with a 06 CRF head. I'm also using a 07 CRF 41mm FCR carb that is modified.

I believe Derrick and Jason use stock exhaust vs. my HRC/Pro Circuit Titanium combination.

Both Jason and Derrick also use a larger and heavier front wheel and hub combination. They both use, if I ‘m not mistaken, 11x7” rims on stock Honda cast aluminum hubs. Whereas, I use a 10x5” front wheel and a smaller, lighter aircraft-grade aluminum billit hub.

I don't know the wheelbase of either Jason's or Derrick's trikes, how much they weigh and what the weight bias front to back is.

When I first mocked it up, it was built to 86 ATC 250R specs, i.e. wheelbase, footpeg height, width and weight bias were identical and seat height and handlebar height were 1/2" taller. Knowing that the old factory Honda ATC's used +1.5"-2" swingarms and knowing the 450 puts out more power, I decided on a +2" swingarm and I also pushed the forks 1.5" forward in a new set of triples.

Comparing the stock swingarm vs. the +2" is night and day. With the stock swingarm, you have to lay off the throttle and you are not able to use all the power. Whereas, you can hammer the throttle and use all the power with the +2" yet still the front end will come up if you’re not paying attention."...


Here are some pics and short video clips from the other day of riding with theFox.

TheFox checking it out
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff223/motomanimal32/riding002.jpg


http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff223/motomanimal32/riding011.jpg


http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff223/motomanimal32/riding026.jpg


http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff223/motomanimal32/th_1.jpg (http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff223/motomanimal32/?action=view&current=1.flv)


http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff223/motomanimal32/th_MOV03714.jpg (http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff223/motomanimal32/?action=view&current=MOV03714.flv)


http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff223/motomanimal32/th_MOV03717.jpg (http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff223/motomanimal32/?action=view&current=MOV03717.flv)

[Derrick Adams]

What Bill said is totally true. All our bikes are totally different chassis designs. I'm sure that has everything to do with it.

[thefox]

What Bill said is totally true. All our bikes are totally different chassis designs. I'm sure that has everything to do with it.

I guess I will just have to test ride them all then. :naughty: :naughty:


There wasn't enough time for you guys to swap trikes at Smith Road? Unfortunately when really testing the trike you need a good amount of seat time that and being a more skilled rider then I am would help too, I'm not a racer.

[ChrisCrash]

Fox,

You're exactly what we want. We want riders of varying skills and abilities to test ride the TPC 450 and let us know what they like and what could be improved.

What is your opinion on the seating position given that you're much taller than Bill and Chuck?

By the way, you're welcome to get as much seat time as you want. You know where we are.

Anybody else in the NY or PA area is also invited to take a test drive and give us their opinions.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[SYKO]

how tall are you FOX? im 6 and 250 im cuirous as to how it feels as well.. my 85 250R has a 2 in longer subframe and seat and 2 in lower and 2 in back pegs and I feel comfortable on it now.

[Jason Hall]

I agree with what Bill said except that I can't have more than 9.5" of rear suspension travel with a stock swingarm. My frame Is a CRF, I did not move the mount under the swingarm bolt that holds the front shock linkage. That mounting bolt Is closer to the rear of the bike. That allows the linkage to have more movement before It Is fully extended. Because the mounting locations are different on my bike I use a Linear linkage setup. That simply means there Is no Progression In my linkage. The shock movement In refrence to the rear axle stays the same through the entire shock stroke, where a progressive link varies the movement of the shock In Its travel. With the linear link It takes some of the guesswork out of shock valving.

As for Derricks bike, he can also get more rear suspension travel by adding long travel linkage along with a long travel shock. All his rear suspension bolt locations are the same as a stock 450R.

Bill did you shorten your front forks, I ask this because I noticed that your fork gaurds are not close to the lower section of the aluminum tubes. My fork gaurds are even with the aluminum dust seal collars.

[thefox]

how tall are you FOX? im 6 and 250 im cuirous as to how it feels as well.. my 85 250R has a 2 in longer subframe and seat and 2 in lower and 2 in back pegs and I feel comfortable on it now.

I’m 6’-3” and 180. I can’t compare to the 85 R because I have never been on a water-cooled R before.

First getting on the 450 the seat height feels a little tall but that feeling soon goes away. I do slide forward on my 350x a little as I am riding which cramps the space some, I didn’t notice this at all with the 450.



Did the pictures of the 450 next to the 350x come out?

[SYKO]

yea I just looked over them again.... im very interestes and I will have to wait till my house if paid off next year befor doig any major decisions on anything...

[ChrisCrash]

Here are some more Pics Of Andrew Riding it.


http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff223/motomanimal32/DSC03645.jpg

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff223/motomanimal32/DSC03674.jpg

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff223/motomanimal32/DSC03670.jpg

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff223/motomanimal32/DSC03671.jpg

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff223/motomanimal32/DSC03684.jpg

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff223/motomanimal32/DSC03685.jpg



Jeff.

[bigpimpin]

wow! nice build! the conversions just seem to be getting nicer and nicer

[torker]

What's it's weight?

TORKER.

[Blown 331]

What's it's weight?

TORKER.

I can tell you the TRX450R weighed 350 so probably a bit less, not too bad at all.

[ChrisCrash]

What's its weight?

TORKER.

Just under 318lbs. The goal was 300lbs. However, this is the prototype, there are several areas where weight can be saved.

Additionally, this is Bill's personal Trike AKA "Black Sheep" edition. He uses several components that are actually heavier than stock such as the swing-arm, axle, while also using a lot of titanium to help offset it.

Depending on how they are set up the weight can be anywhere from 310-330lbs.

[torker]

Hhhmmmmmmmmm!!!!! :wondering :wondering :wondering
I thought it'd be lighter, it's almost sport quad weight, but, considering the weight of the engine and not beeing made by a big Mfg (huge resources) it does not sounds bad at all. If it can beat 270 lbs. R's beeing a lot heavier says a lot of it. I wonder how it compares in fast trail riding with comparable sport quads?
Can't beat new technology...

And of course...Price???

TORKER.

[The Goat]

it's the same as a 350 people...come on...that weighs absolutely nothing.

New rule (to supplement the "if you can start it you can ride it"), if you can't pick it up, you can't ride it

[atctim]

Yeah - 320 is what 350Xs weigh. I was wondering about weight also. I know it is fast!!!!! Think about how fast a TRX450R is - then put it on Slim-Fast :)

[POS 250sx]

it's the same as a 350 people...come on...that weighs absolutely nothing.

New rule (to supplement the "if you can start it you can ride it"), if you can't pick it up, you can't ride it

haha i think we might see a 3wheeler comeback if that rule holds true. I can deadlift the weight of my trike, I dont kno if i can lift the whole thing at once, kinda awkward and no where to hold on.

[SYKO]

lol... I can do the infamous 350X dead lift.. just like the nutjob on huevos 5. lol... bad for the back though.

[atctim]

lol... I can do the infamous 350X dead lift.. just like the nutjob on huevos 5. lol... bad for the back though.

Only wimps would say something like this. I can lift a 350 with one hand then balance it on my nose - like a broom!

[SYKO]

Only wimps would say something like this. I can lift a 350 with one hand then balance it on my nose - like a broom!

pppssssshhhhh!


im at my computer...... and my 250R is floating in my carport with my ENOURMOUS BRAIN POWER doing it....


what.....:D

[The Goat]

I hang trail pros on my weenie...okay enough thread jacking. ha...jacking.

point is this is a nice conversion, a lot of that weight comes from that front end, quite a bit heavier than the stock setup on any trike.