View Full Version : Ugh! My R needs a rebuild it seems.
Crap.
Anyways, fired the R up today as it was sitting - waiting for a new pipe. Put the pipe on and during the downtime the bike was sitting I painted the engine.
Only rode it maybe 45 seconds and noticed I have oil on the top head and more down at the bottom of the engine near the exhaust flange. I'm guessing all my gaskets are shot right?
So - how hard of a job is this to do by one's self? Never did this before bear in mind. Any special tools I'm gunna need? And where is the best place to find a full complete gasket set for my engine? (1982 250 R)
Thanks in advance.
Yamatrike400
10-06-2008, 04:48 PM
Is there alot of smoke? if tranny oil was leaking you'd have tons of it. I get some oil by the exhaust flange too but its just from running it richer in oil. Mine hardly smokes at all.
Is there alot of smoke? if tranny oil was leaking you'd have tons of it. I get some oil by the exhaust flange too but its just from running it richer in oil. Mine hardly smokes at all.
I do have some smoke but not HUGE amounts.
I'm sure the top gasket must be leaking because I have oil up on a freshly painted head. The oil down at the exhaust flange doesnt worry me at all - kinda normal I figure. I'm just wondering if the bike will be safe to ride for a few days if the top gasket is leaking. :confused:
Sucks so bad cause I just installed my Boyesoen Reeds to and wanted to test them out.
DeePa
10-06-2008, 05:01 PM
how do you get oil on top of the head? is your plug loose? I dont see how any oil could get up that far.
its an air cooled motor, so the head and base gaskets are just for compression...and its not like oil is getting into the cooland so there isnt any...
im thinking your plug is loose and its seeping around up there, and the stuff under the exhaust flange is normal, especially if its the stock flange with that metal ring to seal the flange to the pipe...
I wouldnt be too worried about it, unless you take some pics so we can see what youre talking about.
I shoulda been more clear. The oil 'up top' is actually not on top, say where the plug is. It's right at the front of the engine where the gasket is for the head.
As for the oil down botton, what can I put there to stop this? An aftermarket flange?
And will this engine be safe enough to run as it is right now?
how do you get oil on top of the head? is your plug loose? I dont see how any oil could get up that far.
its an air cooled motor, so the head and base gaskets are just for compression...and its not like oil is getting into the cooland so there isnt any...
im thinking your plug is loose and its seeping around up there, and the stuff under the exhaust flange is normal, especially if its the stock flange with that metal ring to seal the flange to the pipe...
I wouldnt be too worried about it, unless you take some pics so we can see what youre talking about.
You can take the stock flange off and clean it. Then use high temp sealer to stop the oil leaking from the stock flange.
Yamatrike400
10-06-2008, 05:14 PM
If its leaking at the head gasket, i would replace it. Its a very easy job to do. You will probly get more power also if it is leaking. You might be able to get by with some high temp RTV smeared on the gasket.
The cheap way ( not really recomended) If its a copper head gasket, you can pop it off an aneal it, heat it till a dull red and let it cool at room temp, if your in a pinch, ive used it on big bore highcompression 2 strokes without problems.
Brockey
10-06-2008, 06:02 PM
I got the complete gasket kit top and bottom end on ebay for like $30 shipping included. The base gasket on my 84 leaks a bit of oil out onto the block under the head, is that what yours is doing? Mines been doing that since my father bought it about a year ago and doesnt hurt it. I plan on changing it soon tho. Also replacing head gaskets are easy as pie. The base gasket requires you to compress the rings to slide the cylinder back over the piston but this is an easy task even if you dont have the proper tools. I have compressed them by a key, flat top screw driver etc before.
I got the complete gasket kit top and bottom end on ebay for like $30 shipping included. The base gasket on my 84 leaks a bit of oil out onto the block under the head, is that what yours is doing?
Thats where I'm seeing some yes. However, I just went and rode her hard for 20 minutes with the new(er) pipe secured much better with hanger springs and I don't see any more there then what was there earlier!
And the top isn't putting out hardly any now either which is weird.
I'm still gunna buy the gasket set and at the very least do the top gasket. I also will need the kit when I take off my side engine cover to tap out a new hole for my 'oil check' screw.
All that said - with this newer pipe on her and the reeds - holy *Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited* what a big ass difference!! You can feel the bike hit her powerband now and just wanna tear off. Awesome. The old reeds (stock) were not in the best of shpe, there was a few pieces broken on them.
Another question - when I installed the new reeds I didn't put the stock reed 'stops' back in because the instructions didn't call for them to be put back in - that's correct though right?
Anyways - I spent 4 hours on my big red today trail riding and I had fun - but - after just spending 20 minutes on the R my heart is just PUMPING!! These old 2-strokes are awesome!!!
Yamatrike400
10-06-2008, 06:28 PM
I told ya you'd feel the difference! I love it too
And yeah, those metal stops supplied in the boyesen package are what you use instead of the stock ones.
I told ya you'd feel the difference! I love it too
And yeah, those metal stops supplied in the boyesen package are what you use instead of the stock ones.
BIG difference! Might wanna do some carb adjustments here and there but yeah - my trike woke right up - then stood straight up!! lol - in 3 gears even!! Once that powerband comes on it's like "hold on" :w00t:
Still feels sluggish down bottom but that IMHO is probably in the carb - needs tweaking.
Honestly - I think I need a new carb real bad - it still has the stock 27mm on there. :(
And thanks for confirming about the reeds - I didn't think the stock reed stops were needed but just wanted to make sure.
300rman
10-06-2008, 08:07 PM
definitely get a bigger carb. i wouldnt go larger than a 34MM though, as you are still using a 250cc top end.
Yamatrike400
10-06-2008, 08:41 PM
The 34 Mikuni on mine is perfect- Great top end, but still has low end grunt- Especially with those boyesen reeds. I would like to get a flatslide someday though.
34mm - your running a pipe now too right?
Yamatrike400
10-07-2008, 09:29 AM
I havent gotten a chance to try the new Bassani, still need the top end kit. But it ran very good with just the stock pipe so it should rip with that bassani on there. I might get the head shaved down too.
I havent gotten a chance to try the new Bassani, still need the top end kit. But it ran very good with just the stock pipe so it should rip with that bassani on there. I might get the head shaved down too.
Good luck. Can't wait to see that bassani on her!!
Did some good riding today on mine - poor thing is totally bogging down down low under light throttle but SCREAMING when she's opening up - like ripping.
So is that a sign of running lean or rich? Whats the cure? Would slapping a 34MM carb on there help with this alot?
One more thing real fast - dunno if it's the reeds - the new(er) pipe or sometrhing else but now when I haul through the gears I get a 'whoop' sound in between changes - 'whoop' is not the best word but - I dunno how to describe it. Everything feels good though so maybe it's just the newfound power?
BOB MARLIN
10-07-2008, 01:40 PM
I just ordered a top end gasket kit from honda,although it is aftermarket,it was only $16. I have an 81R and have been trying to get it to run right for months now. Re-jeting over and over . The top end is real fast. The low end sucks.
Last weekend I discovered that I had a leak at the head gasket,oily soot around
the head. It was a stripped head stud. I don't think you can get the jetting right
until you fix the leaks first.
just putting a carb on wont help your jetting problem...... geez does anyone read any information any more?? you need to jet the carb that you have, not just ditch it in favor of another carb...
and get the head gasket ASAP! you can creat a lean condition with a leaky gasket and fry your motor...
just putting a carb on wont help your jetting problem...... geez does anyone read any information any more?? you need to jet the carb that you have, not just ditch it in favor of another carb...
and get the head gasket ASAP! you can creat a lean condition with a leaky gasket and fry your motor...
I'm looking into a new carb because A. I just put new reeds in. B. I'm putting a Mugen pipe on soon and C. the stock 27mm sucks!
How do you know the stock 27mm sucks? it hasnt ever been tuned for your motor yet? I had a 300 kit that ran a 32 (on a 83)for a long time and it was stupid! and quite a few peeps can tell you it was, didnt upgrade till later, then took the 300 off and put back on the 32 and tuned it for the 250 and it was stupid again! new owner can tell you that... Everyone things you can just keep modding and modding and modding..... welll you acheive nothing by adding a bunch of stuff if you cant make it all work together..... Jet your carb right for your motor and I bet you'll be better off, and you'll save some money in the long run... New carbs dont magicly come jetted perfectly for your motor.
Tri-Z Pilot
10-07-2008, 07:03 PM
di you put an aftermarket pipe on? have you re-jetted? i would make sure your not running lean, with the weather getting colder, and especially since you have an air fooler, CHECK THE JETTING! its very easy to trash the top end on an air cooled 2 stroke by runnin lean. you could check into a product called dial-a-jet for your carb too. i have had great success with it on my old tri-z.
Dirtcrasher
10-07-2008, 07:40 PM
How do you know the stock 27mm sucks? it hasnt ever been tuned for your motor yet? I had a 300 kit that ran a 32 (on a 83)for a long time and it was stupid! and quite a few peeps can tell you it was, didnt upgrade till later, then took the 300 off and put back on the 32 and tuned it for the 250 and it was stupid again! new owner can tell you that... Everyone things you can just keep modding and modding and modding..... welll you acheive nothing by adding a bunch of stuff if you cant make it all work together..... Jet your carb right for your motor and I bet you'll be better off, and you'll save some money in the long run... New carbs dont magicly come jetted perfectly for your motor.
Excellent point!!!
You can't just assume that larger is better. Jetting is such a PAIN but you may surprise yourself as to what works the best for your machine........
Many combonations work, but none of them come easy - usually that is :D
The Goat
10-07-2008, 08:27 PM
How do you know the stock 27mm sucks? it hasnt ever been tuned for your motor yet? I had a 300 kit that ran a 32 (on a 83)for a long time and it was stupid! and quite a few peeps can tell you it was, didnt upgrade till later, then took the 300 off and put back on the 32 and tuned it for the 250 and it was stupid again! new owner can tell you that... Everyone things you can just keep modding and modding and modding..... welll you acheive nothing by adding a bunch of stuff if you cant make it all work together..... Jet your carb right for your motor and I bet you'll be better off, and you'll save some money in the long run... New carbs dont magicly come jetted perfectly for your motor.
the new owner dropped on a fresh 300 kit is running a 36mm and had has a head that was ported to hell and back...:w00t: :w00t:
at last check with one tooth larger in the front riding on 20s he was running 76 mph...as per a gps and my car. I'm hoping I can catch him with the 350x...but I don't think it's gonna happen.
shens
1upfront
10-07-2008, 09:16 PM
the new owner dropped on a fresh 300 kit is running a 36mm and had has a head that was ported to hell and back...:w00t: :w00t:
at last check with one tooth larger in the front riding on 20s he was running 76 mph...as per a gps and my car. I'm hoping I can catch him with the 350x...but I don't think it's gonna happen.
shens
That's good to hear he had some questions for me awhile back and I tried to give him the best advice I could, is he running a 36pwk like I recommended?
The Goat
10-07-2008, 09:22 PM
he did go with the carb you recommended...took a while to tune, but from what I've seen it came out great.
Ok then - since the trike runs great at 1/2 to WOT but bogs down low and sometimes won't idle - the problem is probably my pilot jet right?
Ebay the best place to buy jets?
i58829
10-07-2008, 10:33 PM
Well i dont have a ton of time tuning and swapping carbs on the R's, liquid or air, but i can say that my air was an awesome ride, never fouled a plug, and would have power any time needed but the low end torque wasn't there at all compared to my liquid R. I know there's a lot in the tuning/jetting/set up of the motor and what not but the air cooled machines just aren't gonna pull like a liquid, in fact you can't even compare the two. I'd say the air cooled R's need to be blown out and run at a much higher rpm more often than the liquids. But thats just my opinion and take it for what its worth, but stuffing a larger carb and inevitably more air isn't the answer, if you want to putt around ride the 4 stroke, TC...
Well I still say the bike will, if not does now, need a bigger carb then the stock 27mm.
I'll try and tune it for sure, but with reeds, new air filter and a mugen pipe the bike is gunna have that 27mm as a bottleneck.
I'm betting a 34mm carb, jetted and tuned for my application will outperform a 27 which is also tuned/jetted for my application.
Just my opinion.
The Goat
10-07-2008, 10:45 PM
It will, but the point is, don't think that you can't tune the 27 for your mods.
hell...given enough time...I could tune a 37mm fcr for an atc 70.
you will have better tourqe fromt the 27 then you will the 34
Well then - today I had my first foray into playing with a carb! Yay for me.
Still can't get the *Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited**E dited* to idle though - yet. I took the needle out and moved the clip down 2 spaces to richen the fuel with colder winter coming on. (to my shock the needle clip was at it's highest/leanest position) The bike felt good after that.
But I couldn't get at the pilot jet today because the guy who owned the bike before me did a sweet number on the screws holding the bowl onto the carb - so I gotta get some new screws to replace them before I work em' out with the vice grips.
I'm hoping if I get at the pilot jet and clean it up good I'll get her to idle. Hope.
I'm just so new at this, especially adjusting carbs and stuff - but the basic jist of it seems to be coming easily. Pilot controls idle to 1/4 throttle - main jet controls WOT which right now is perfect on the bike.
Also, I did everything possible with the air screw and also the idle screw and it didn't help idle at all - didn't even seem to make the slightest change whatsoever.
So tomorrow I'll either try harder to get at the pilot and clean it up or try and install the new shock and/or headlight that came today. (thanks homebrew!)
The Goat
10-09-2008, 07:43 PM
adjusting that needle jet WILL affect your top end...contrary to popular belief.
adjusting that needle jet WILL affect your top end...contrary to popular belief.
Top end still feels fine - pulling like a beast. I just need this trike to idle!
Where is everyone buying their jets? I'd like to get a bunch of different jet sizes for the pilot and main.
fabiodriven
10-09-2008, 08:28 PM
I can't recall the last time I saw an airfooler R idle. Not a dig, just the truth.
I can't recall the last time I saw an airfooler R idle. Not a dig, just the truth.
Gotta be a way to get her to idle!
The Goat
10-09-2008, 09:17 PM
you could adjust your throttle to give it a small amount of gas.
Brockey
10-09-2008, 09:33 PM
My airfoolers dont idle for no longer than 20 seconds. So I hit the throttle to rev her up, then she idles down and slowly tries to die out again.
here ya go READ!
http://www.3wheelerworldforums.com/showthread.php?t=55086
Daddio
10-09-2008, 10:01 PM
I can't recall the last time I saw an airfooler R idle. Not a dig, just the truth.
I don't know how many of them you've seen but I have have never seen that problem before. It shouldn't matter whether it's air-cooled or not, it's just an engine after all. It may be that the ones you've seen that don't idle haven't had the carb adjusted properly. I've seen a lot of machines air cooled, liquid cooled 2stroke and 4stroke that were being ridden around and were not properly tuned. some people don't know how to do it or maybe they just don't care.
hell my 300 idled with half a piston!! just ask everyone in fla!! LMFAO!! no... really it did..... lol!
here ya go READ!
http://www.3wheelerworldforums.com/showthread.php?t=55086
Yeah, umm - read that thread a few times. Every page of it.
Right now I think the problem lays with my pilot jet and if all goes well I will get the sucker out tomorrow and clean it or if I can find a new one - replace it.
Daddio
10-09-2008, 11:03 PM
On your carb you should have an idle adjusting screw and an air fuel mixture screw. The idle screw has a tapered end that screws into the the carb at the bottom of the slide. as you screw this in it should raise the slide up. if you screw it out it will let the slide go down thus increasing or decreasing the idle speed. If you are having problems with the idle this is the only thing that will fix your problem. The pilot jet will have very little affect on the idle. Do you have a manual?
On your carb you should have an idle adjusting screw and an air fuel mixture screw. The idle screw has a tapered end that screws into the the carb at the bottom of the slide. as you screw this in it should raise the slide up. if you screw it out it will let the slide go down thus increasing or decreasing the idle speed. If you are having problems with the idle this is the only thing that will fix your problem. The pilot jet will have very little affect on the idle. Do you have a manual?
A manual for the carb? No.
I have the Clymer manual for the trike though. I've adjusted the idle screw, about 45 minutes yesterday steady adjusting it. I'm thinking maybe I'll try what was mentioned here and tighten the throttle cable up a lil bit - just enough to keep her running and idling.
I was interested in checking the pilot jet because in the carb jetting thread it says this -
Pilot Jet: This is second jet in your carb. Much smaller than the Main Jet and typically has no effect beyond approximately 1/4 throttle. It's used to adjust your mixture at idle and low throttle.
and here -
My bike is running fine but it won't idle no matter what I do with the idle screw. Should I change the pilot?
Try adjusting the air screw before you go tearing into the carb to change the pilot jet. The stock pilot size should get you close enough to fine tune it with the air screw for most applications. The pilot jet can also become clogged. In which case it needs to be removed and thoroughly cleaned out or simply replaced.
http://www.3wheelerworldforums.com/showthread.php?t=55086
Yamatrike400
10-10-2008, 04:53 PM
I can't recall the last time I saw an airfooler R idle. Not a dig, just the truth.
I dont know whats so hard about getting it to idle?? Mine will idle forever if i needed it to.
Daddio
10-10-2008, 09:00 PM
[QUOTE=Saul;662675]A manual for the carb? No.
I have the Clymer manual for the trike though. I've adjusted the idle screw, about 45 minutes yesterday steady adjusting it. I'm thinking maybe I'll try what was mentioned here and tighten the throttle cable up a lil bit - just enough to keep her running and idling.
I guess you could do it that way but that is what the idle screw is for.
I was interested in checking the pilot jet because in the carb jetting thread it says this :beer -:welcome: :lol:
and here -:beer :wondering :beer
http://www.3wheelerworldforums.com/showthread.php?t=55086[/QUOTE
When you had your slide out did you notice if it had a notch worn in it from the idle screw? Is the end of the idle screw worn?
I would at least clean and inspect the carb before changing the jetting. That is why I asked if you had a manual. And I meant a manual for the trike not the carb. It should have a section in there on the carb if it is any good. I sure hope you get this figured out. :rolleyes:
I
mustangmachanic
10-10-2008, 09:24 PM
my 82R would purr all day but its a part now
When you had your slide out did you notice if it had a notch worn in it from the idle screw? Is the end of the idle screw worn?
Honestly - the whole carb looks 'worn' - the idle screw is pretty beat - and the 'spring' that controls how far you can adjust it is kinda beat. The 'air' screw looks 'tired' and the slide looks a little worn to be honest. I mean - I'm no expert on this by NO MEANS but the whole carb looks like it's showing it's age (it's the original 27mm keihn carb - 20+ years old!!) I just think it needs either fixing or replacing.
I would at least clean and inspect the carb before changing the jetting. That is why I asked if you had a manual.
I have/did cleaned it up with carb cleaner and also lowered the clip on the needle 2 notches which seemed to help performance a bit, even if it didn't help get the trike to idle.
And I meant a manual for the trike not the carb. It should have a section in there on the carb if it is any good. I sure hope you get this figured out. :rolleyes:
I
Yeah, the clymer manual was the first thing I bought after getting the trike - I was hoping I wouldn't have to come on here and keep asking these BNOOB questions but a manual isn't always as good as having real people like yerself who have been through this stuff and made stuff work. The clymer really has helped a bunch and gives me courage to tackle stuff I wouldn't have before - like today I took my old shock out and put a new shock in my bike, tightened my clutch and throttle and yesterday took apart my carb - all because I had clear cut instructions from the clymer manual!! But it's still nice to have 3WW.com for real world feedback, real time feedback from members like YOU daddio - people who actually seem to care instead of just yelling - read this thread or hit search or whatever - so thanks man, thanks daddio for actually coming across as someone who actually gives a damn instead of coming across as someone who wants to be the 'I know it all and everyone else should know it all too!' - I'll be honest here - I DON'T know it all - I've got ALOT to learn about these 250R 2 stroke engines and trikes in general. I'm not afriad to get my hands dirty - I just don't waqnna destroy my trike in the process.
I'm having a ton of fun though - I paid 80 bucks for the R - I've spent a couple hundred all ready in parts and crap and I'm loving it. It's fun to turn wrences on the trike - as long as I feel I'm making progress! The feeling I had just the other day when I put the new reeds in alongside the new pipe was incredible.
This is most certainly a big addiction and I just wanna thank the KIND members here who understand what I'm going through and understand I am a noob who is gunna have ALOT of questions along the way. Questions that might be very very common and/or trivial but for me - I just don't KNOW the answers too.
Anyways ...
p.s. the person who owned the trike before me had the bright idea to 'weld' the hubs to the axl - and guess who BROKE the weld today while riding? YUP! So depending on how bad the damage is - I may need a new axl for the R soon.
*groan* I am about to replace the stock rims and hubs with 400ex hubs and 10" rims and tires - now it looks like I may need the whole axl too. LOL! The '80 dollar fun trike' is starting to look more and more like the 'never ending money pit' everyday - thankfully I have a good understanding woman behind me.
Hopefully I don't reach her limits too quick.
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