86 250r Engine noise...what's making it? You tube video to hear! [Archive]

Taiser

09-22-2008, 08:52 PM

Hey guys, thanks for all the help last time, it really helped narrow it down. Now she fires up on first kick, idles GREAT and puts out tons of power! Only one thing is still making me pull my hair out. This weird noise from the engine!

Don't know what's causing it. Sounds like it's coming from the reed's but I've never heard them make this kind of noise (although my 2 stroke experience is limited to 20 years ago on a YZ) so I'm looking for input. Again she has tons of power, compression is 175# and this is almost new engine. Noise is weirdly consistent and steady. Got buddies that say it's normal (I don't think so), some say too much oil in the gas, others that it's the counter-balancer. Any ideas would be helpful, I'm sure someone has heard this before!

You tube video here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoRPc56emmo

Don't mind the smoke, I've mixed the first tank pretty thick to break it in.

badasskfx

09-22-2008, 09:11 PM

sounds like the bottom end is ratteling. did it just start to do it? or are you just noticing it?

fabiodriven

09-22-2008, 09:26 PM

That sounds alot like my Tecate (250) at idle. In my case, I beleive it's the actual sound of the piston going up and down, and whatever clearance there is on either side of the rod making that little rattle. I've always imagined that's what I'm hearing because if you run it without the rotor cover you can see the speed the engine is running at and almost imagine the piston going up and down in sync. I'm not 100% certain that's the noise in either case (yours or mine), but it's an educated guess. Mine has always done it. I've had it for 4 years, had the motor apart, and she's always run flawless. I just got used to the noise. I've never owned an R, so I can't say if that's normal or not for you.

HondaHarry

09-22-2008, 09:36 PM

Ive been told thats normal... the notorious 250R counterbalancer rattle.
When I first got my 85 250R I noticed it too, and it freaked me out, I posted
on here, took it to a shop that my freind Kelly runs, (Best motorcycle mechanic I know) and after he got done giving me hell for buying a trike, he said it might be piston slap (but it is/was an extremely low hour motor that had just been gone thru with new seals, clutch update, and an 86 ATC cylinder with an old LA Sleeve 295 kit. (I still have the 85 cylinder, and its std. bore with zero wear) Anyhow he told me to just ride it and see if it got worse, when the motor was really warm it would become just a touch more noticable, but never had any ill effects, and nothing weird ever showed up in the oil. I have heard some bikes rattle louder than others, and I have heard this noise to varying degrees on many many 250Rs. That was my experience, and my $0.02. HH

Itrike

09-22-2008, 09:41 PM

I don't know what makes that noise but my 85 stock piston bike made it and so did my parts bike and the 86 r I had for a short time. Kinda funny just this weekend at silver lake I was talking with an older gentelman who has a couple really fast 85 rs he has had for a long time and built them himself. I mentioned I was thinking of building a big bore motor for my trike and he said when I do not to get excited abought the honda rattle. I wonder if this is what he is talking abought??

Erics350x

09-22-2008, 09:45 PM

That isn't normal noise. Does it get faster or louder with the RPM's?

fabiodriven

09-22-2008, 09:51 PM

That isn't normal noise. Does it get faster or louder with the RPM's?

No offense, Eric, do you own any 2 strokes? That would be a terrible noise for a four stroke, but mines been making a similar noise for years, and I don't baby her...

Yamatrike400

09-22-2008, 09:53 PM

Yeah mine sounds like that when i push down the kick starter while its running..It does slightly make that noise, but not as loud.

Tri-Z Pilot

09-22-2008, 10:01 PM

almost has a noisy valve train kinda sound to it, kinda like rocker arms outta whack. seeing as that dont apply here, its definately something connected to the rotation of the crankshaft, its not something just rattling by itself.

iowarotax

09-22-2008, 10:04 PM

Most of the Liquid Rs I have owned have had a little counter balancer noise, but not that loud. Usually its just a low buzzing noise.

Daddio

09-22-2008, 10:07 PM

It sounds like the counter balancer to me.
Here is 1upfront and his 83 250r. It sounds a little different but you can still hear it.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/lrdunlap/th_100_0209.jpg (http://s39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/lrdunlap/?action=view&current=100_0209.flv)

Here is his 84 300r drag trike. It is too loud to hear anything but the exhaust noise.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/lrdunlap/th_100_0226.jpg (http://s39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/lrdunlap/?action=view&current=100_0226.flv)

freaksfix

09-22-2008, 10:09 PM

I have owned 10-12 250r's 85 86atc and trx's 86 87.. They have all made that noise, they all have varied in how loud it was but never as loud as yours.. anyhow i never figured it out on what it was but never had any problem that related to it. and when ever i replaced crank bearings or topends or rebuilt trannys ect it never went away... weither its normal or not im not sure but it has never shown i real problem...

Dammit!

09-22-2008, 10:27 PM

Mine has been doing that the entire 18 or so years I've owned it.

Dammit!

09-22-2008, 10:38 PM

Wait for the end of the vid. I was having to work the choke to keep it from dying. You can here it best at idle.

http://www.triketrash.com/random/250rknock.mov

Edit: after listening to yours again, that is really loud. I have a somewhat loud pipe though. Maybe it's just being drowned out more.

SCEADU

09-22-2008, 10:47 PM

My 88 does it too. I thought that it was the cranik bearings but I was asured by a mechanic that it was normal.

KASEY

09-22-2008, 10:47 PM

that sounds like a 250r to me,,,, :w00t:

Taiser

09-23-2008, 08:07 AM

Thanks for the input guys...yeah it sounds pretty scarry at first but aside that it runs flawlessly, even idles!!! :eek:Again my 2-stroke xp is limited to motorcross and ski-doo's, but none of them made this sound.

Dammit, your engine sounds a lot like mine, especially at idle. I'm trying to make mine 100% stock so I do have the stock pipe but i may update the pipe later on. That would probably drown out the sound because when I hit the gas the sound goes away with the engine rev's so a louder pipe would likely mask it.

My noise might be sounding a little harder to you guys because I used a pro camera from work to record it...don't know, but again it runs great and I don't really want to tear into a less than 10 hour new engine to find a phantom noise, not when the thing will pop wheelies in 3rd gear without even trying!

On the upnote, she's almost done! :D Just ordered new rad fairings (oem), and brakes (yeah I was booting up and down there with zero brakes! :eek: Need a new wheelie bar and rear plastic. Then I tear her down again and do the full new paint rebuild. Still not too bad for a bike that every part of it came off of e-bay! :)

Erics350x

09-23-2008, 08:37 AM

No offense, Eric, do you own any 2 strokes? That would be a terrible noise for a four stroke, but mines been making a similar noise for years, and I don't baby her...

None taken, but for the record
I've been riding them for 25 years and was raised in a shop. If you listen alittle closer you can hear what he's talking about. It's not a normal noise. It may be just counter balance noise, but it would drive me nut's!

Kintore

09-23-2008, 10:14 AM

Your all set, no worries. My duncan PV 265 does that as well!

Nick_R_23

09-23-2008, 01:43 PM

After reading this I feel a lot better, my 250r makes a slight knocking sound from the balancer, and I was about ready to tear down my motor and replace all the bearings!! After revving it up it goes away, but I didnt want to scatter my engine on the trail from bad bearings. Guess I dont have to now!

-Nick :TrikesOwn

Jonpin

09-23-2008, 01:50 PM

It sounds like when you kick a bike over and have the kicker down still but louder i think and if thats normal for a 2 stroke to sound like more the reason not to get one i would go crazy hearing that all the time ,good luck resolving the problem.

Dirtcrasher

09-23-2008, 04:29 PM

It does sound like most R's but something sounds a bit loose to me....

If you want some piece of mind grab a gasket kit.

Take off the left cover and see if there is any play in the crank, you can get to the counter balancer on that side too and make sure they're tight and the holder isn't broke. My holder was cracked.....

Then you can take off the right cover and do the check on that side, it will only cost you 2 gaskets.

That helps you rule out most of it.

If it's a "newer" motor, then hopefully whoever did the work checked the lower connecting rod bearing.

300rman

09-23-2008, 06:59 PM

my air R sounds like its coming apart when its running.....and its 100% fresh....i know air and water cooled are night and day difference, BUT.......

Taiser

09-23-2008, 07:43 PM

If it's a "newer" motor, then hopefully whoever did the work checked the lower connecting rod bearing.

It's literally factory new, never been opened. If you listen at the end of the video after I come back from the quick boot, it seems to be louder! :( I'll look into the crank, never know what could be up in there but to me it seems like it's coming from near the reeds, someone on youtube said it could be from the starter gear too?

Dirtcrasher

09-23-2008, 08:09 PM

cybrman

09-23-2008, 09:04 PM

It could definitely be something with the kickstart, spring messed up or something. Not sure how the 250r's are put together but I've had that noise on a 250sx with a spring that got wound around 180 degrees. I managed to heat it up and reshape it but I swear to this day I can still hear a small sound roflmao makes me crazy!
The sound I heard sounds like it could be similar. Only one way to find out. I'm with DC pop the cover off and have look.

Erics350x

09-23-2008, 09:32 PM

Taiser

09-23-2008, 09:36 PM

Starter gear?? It doesn't have a starter gear :lol:

Listen to whoever and whatever gives you piece of mind. If it was a NOS motor, it's very well that the mains or something else could be the problem.

New doesn't mean much, was it stored in a dry area for 20 years? Did the bearings dry out?

350X motors cranks that sit for 2 decades lay in oil all that time, 2 strokes rely on the premix oil that lubes them, the more they sit the drier they get including the lower connecting rod bearing.

No need to get crazy about it, we can all come up with our own ideas and or thoughts, but if you check it out best you can than thats all you can do..........

Whats the history on this motor??

Well has to have something from the kick starter to some kind of gear...it don't start by osmosis! :beer

Engine was sitting for the last 20+ years but was properly stored, had been fogged and had proper long term storage oil in the gear case.

checked the inside when I got it with a borescope, all was well, no rust, still oily from the fog.

Little bit of surface rust on the crank would not hurt it long term, although I saw no evidence of that.

Still like to know what exactly makes that noise! :lol:

fabiodriven

09-23-2008, 09:42 PM

I say it's normal. Just my .02-

Daddio

09-23-2008, 10:16 PM

It,s a 250r. They make funny noises. They run like a scalded dog. Ride that sucker for a while and if it gets any worse then worry about it. Chances are you will get used to hearing it first, unless of course you choose to sell it to someone else. If you buy another one, it too will make funny noises.
I think it,s the nature of the beast.

oscarmayer

09-23-2008, 10:45 PM

ok before anyone goes further, are we sure the oiling is correct for that motor in the mixture. I've been a crew cheif in karting world for a few years, and that noise sounds like lower bearings going, or even rod end bushing gone. also sounds like piston is scouring the cyclinder walls.

nowgranted the mtoors i tuned were rotax 125s, but wouldn't a 2stroke sound like a 2stroke at idle?

one other thing it could be while thinking of it is reeds are not correctly installed, or worn prematurely.

I do know if I heard that in a motor i was workign on, it's be torn down and sent off to the shop for rebuild (not allowed to rebuild and seal them per racing rules, but i was allowed to dissamble all i wanted for troubleshooting but not assmeble).

I'd look at the oil/gas mixture your running, next check the plug and tuning. tune the carb and get the mixture right. set the plug gap accordingly or even the plug heat range. after that i'd start checking for internal wear.

good luck.

oscarmayer

09-23-2008, 10:48 PM

ok listened again for 4 times. in a row. sounds like bottom end noise. in the trans or clutch area is what it sounds like to me.

only other thing is the reeds are not right is what i can think of.

Tri-Z Pilot

09-23-2008, 11:00 PM

seeing as many other peoples r's sound like this, it could just be the way they are once they wear into themselves

Taiser

09-23-2008, 11:15 PM

Oil is thick at around 20:1 since it's (my) first tank and it was sitting for a long time, plug is new, gapped properly. Noise is coming from on top somewhere, near the reed area, put a stethascope (sp?) on the bottom end, all is smooth, most of the noise again seems to be coming from the reed area, maybe a bit in front and is mostly noted on the left side, probably because the exhaust is on the other side and hiding it? Would the reeds make noise if they started going?

Tri-Z Pilot

09-23-2008, 11:18 PM

if your worried about the reeds, throw a nice aftermarket set on, couldnt hurt.

Erics350x

09-23-2008, 11:20 PM

Well has to have something from the kick starter to some kind of gear...it don't start by osmosis! :beer

Engine was sitting for the last 20+ years but was properly stored, had been fogged and had proper long term storage oil in the gear case.

checked the inside when I got it with a borescope, all was well, no rust, still oily from the fog.

Little bit of surface rust on the crank would not hurt it long term, although I saw no evidence of that.

Still like to know what exactly makes that noise! :lol:

I've seen alitlle bit of surfaced rust on crank bearings destroy several PWC engines after a few hours of use. If this where a engine that had been ran all these years then i might be more willing to believe that its the counter balance or some other worn part. But it's not!
Pull the reed cage and look at them and the piston through the hole where the reeds go. Another strong possiblity is the wrist pin bearing, since the engine was prolly fogged without starting it below the piston wouldn't get touched by the lube. If so, you'll know for sure in a few more hours of use when it breaks a piston skirt from the wrist pin freezing up.

peter250r

09-24-2008, 07:31 AM

mate, that is definitely the kickstarter gear. my 86 makes that exact same sound when the kickstarter lever is held down while the engine is running!!!

Erics350x

09-24-2008, 08:15 AM

The kick start makes a sound like a ratchet. To eliminate that as the noise, start and hold the kick start down. You'll either hear anouther noise or no change.

Dammit!

09-24-2008, 10:23 AM

I'd just go ride the crap out of the thing. If it breaks something was wrong and then it'll be easy to spot and fix afterwards. :lol:

Seriously though I don't think you have anything to worry about. All 250R's click like that. Yours just seems louder than most. Could be because it's a stock pipe and a NOS motor that hasn't been properly broken in yet.

Taiser

09-24-2008, 11:41 AM

I'd just go ride the crap out of the thing. If it breaks something was wrong and then it'll be easy to spot and fix afterwards. lol

Best advice yet, yeah I think I'll keep riding it and see what happens, she's almost done, then she gets stripped down for the complete make-over. If anyone still has idea's I'm all for hearing them but if she blows well I guess It's an excuse to mod the engine! :D

Glad I'm not on welfare. :beer

NewfieBish

09-24-2008, 05:35 PM

man i started mine up today after watchin that video and realized... mine is JUST like that, except not as loud haha, ive been ridin mine a couple of months now since i got it and nothin's broke yet, and it still got loads of power.. i think its normal..

DeePa

09-24-2008, 06:03 PM

runnnnn it...

devilman

09-24-2008, 06:08 PM

mine does it also. no one seems to really know what it is.

Daddio

09-24-2008, 07:28 PM

mine does it also. no one seems to really know what it is.

It's a 250R!

fabiodriven

09-24-2008, 07:30 PM

I swear to you, you just gotta get used to it. I'm tellin ya, my Tecate's been making that same noise forever.

peter250r

09-24-2008, 10:19 PM

mate,

that is definitely the kickstarter gear. mine makes that exact same sound when the kickstarter is held down while (and only when) the engine is running!!!

fabiodriven

09-24-2008, 10:38 PM

I know this noise and it's definately not the kickstarter. As someone already said, all you have to do is push the kicker down and that'll kill that theory real quick.

I don't know how well you know Chuck Norris, but if you can get him to take a look at it he could definately tell you what's wrong. That is, if he doesn't kill you-

Erics350x

09-24-2008, 10:53 PM

Not this Chuck Norris crap again, i went through years of reading this crap on pwctoday.com .
I hope the bottom end blows in a hundred pieces so i can say i told you so. lol j/k

Taiser

09-24-2008, 11:02 PM

Nope not the kick starter, pushed that down and I could hear the gears stripping, totally different noise! It gets louder as it warms up. Somebody in another forum said that the counter balancer gears have sloppy tolerances and that it's normal. Guess I'll have to get use to it for now...still sounds pretty scary though! :(

250rAL

09-26-2008, 08:54 PM

Mine makes the sound too, just not near as loud.

brapp

09-26-2008, 11:14 PM

if your worried abotu it use a logn screwdriver and place the handle against your ear hole and you move the head of the screwdriver to diffrent areas to the motor and listen wher eyou hear it loudest and it willhelp you determine where abtu it is its a redneck stethoscope and has helped me find bering ticks and slaps and ticks before they become major.

2quicktecate

02-10-2009, 04:25 AM

just curious if she still runs? i just got a built 85r and it sounds like that too. but it not really as consistant. all three of my tecate motor sound worse than that and run like a raped ape. i'm just gonna run my r and see what happens. i feel a little better hearing that alot of r's rattle

2quicktecate

02-10-2009, 11:47 PM

here's a video of how mine sounds
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee291/vwgli16vracer/th_MOV01870.jpg (http://s235.photobucket.com/albums/ee291/vwgli16vracer/?action=view&current=MOV01870.flv)

big schott

02-11-2009, 12:11 AM

That sounds just like mine did/does. I found a bad bearing on the ballancer. The gear moved about a 1/8". A small engines guy told me if that bearing goes the counter ballancer or bearings flying arround the area could go through the case.

It's easy to check if this is bad. Just pull off the right side cover and check to see if the front gear (the counter ballancer shaft) moves. if you see front to back movement pull the ballancer out and replace the bearing. $25.

Now I don't know if this will fix mine or yours but, it can't hurt.

:beer

Twilight

02-11-2009, 12:34 AM

2quick, thats what mine sounds like... just add some smoke.

2quicktecate

02-11-2009, 12:40 AM

2quick, thats what mine sounds like... just add some smoke.

lol.... mine fricken rips though the rattle has been there for a while says the previous owners

atvmxr

02-11-2009, 01:34 AM

I not going to read all 4 pages. Simply state this has been brought up many times on the TRX board over the past 10 years. the 250R makes a wierd knocking sound when idling in neutral. Dont know what causes, nothing will fix it, dont worry about it. :)

now if your in gear and giving it gas and its making noise, then you gots a problem :Bounce