Honda's thoughts on the 1981 ATC250R

[WaimakRydah]

Performance First. These two words say all one ever needs to know about Honda’s relentless quest to produce the industry’s finest motorsports machinery. Perhaps less apparent, though, at least to the casual enthusiast, is how aptly this, their official powersports mantra, defines what’s arguably Honda’s greatest and most enduring role: that of market revolutionary.

For decades, Honda has been the bellwether of innovation, introducing products across all motorsports segments that forever changed the way we look at performance.

The ATC250R, introduced in 1981, was one such machine. It marked the debut of the world’s first true high-performance ATC, signaling not only that Honda was as serious about winning on three wheels as it was on two, but also paving the way for the modern ATVs of today, the Baja 1000-winning Honda FourTrax Rincon being the most recent example.

Before 1981, odds were that the only way you could get your hands on a high-performance three-wheeler was to build it yourself, usually in the form of boring and stroking an engine to the absolute limits of its original design. All that changed for good when the ATC250R took its bow, starting with a completely new frame boasting a swingarm, adjustable Showa forks and rear shock, and front disc brake (all ATC firsts).The engine, too, was something never seen before in an ATC: a slightly detuned, liquid-cooled, 248cc two-stroke single straight out of Honda’s CR250R motocrosser, refined even further with a vibration-reducing counterbalancer. Mated to a close-ratio, race-spec, five-speed manual transmission, the ATC250R was as much at home slicing nimbly through the woods as it was railing across the desert.

None other than racing legend Mickey Thompson witnessed this performance firsthand at the 1980 Baja 1000. As the story goes, a group of Honda associates, running unofficially on preproduction ATC250Rs, surprised Thompson when they caught and passed him prerunning for the race. (Honda’s first official ATC race effort would come a year later in the SCORE-sanctioned Parker 400.) It wasn’t to be Thompson’s last interaction with the ATC250R, either, as he’d go on to play a huge part in getting an official three-wheel class sanctioned in time for the 1981 Baja 1000.

The ATC250R would go on to several performance-enhancing evolutions (improved suspension in 1983; liquid-cooling, Pro-Link suspension and low-profile knobbies in 1985) until it was discontinued after 1986.

However, the ATC250R’s legacy would be forever etched in the history of high-performance ATV-ing. And while the model itself might have been discontinued, the performance standards first established by this machine can still be seen today on every Honda ATV from the SportTrax 400EX to the FourTrax Rincon.

Source: http://powersports.honda.com/the_story/heritage/heritage_milestone.asp?Decade=1980&TargetUrl=Milestone/Milestone_Model_0132.asp&PrevPageTitle=TimeLine

[scooterroo]

yeah but kawi lead the way when it came to the innovation of liquid cooling, not honda. kawi dropped the first liquid cooled 250 2 stroke motor into a trike chassis in 83 ( 84 model kxt250 a1 ). honda followed the leader this time not the other way around. and from that day on kawi was the major thorn in hondas side.!!!! ROCK ON!!!!!!!!!!!!

[johnny's X]

spoken from a true kawi fan right there.

[Vealmonkey]

Why did it say that the 81 250r was liquid cooled?

[factoryX]

they had a liquid cooled head did they not? and honda did have a water coller in 84 but not open to the public till 85....

[scooterroo]

as far as i know 81-84 were all AIR foolers. not liquid cooled.

[scooterroo]

they had a liquid cooled head did they not? and honda did have a water coller in 84 but not open to the public till 85....

and kawi came out with the 84 t3 model in 83...again ahead of honda! enough of the arguement, just "let the good times roll!" lol.

[Hoosier_Daddy]

That's all good if you're a Honda fan. Unfortunately, Kawi fans know that 81 was really the last "innovation" by Honda in the 3 wheeler market. When the Tecate came out, it was all Kawasaki except for 1985. 1984 - 1987 Kawasaki led all the trike innovations. And Kawi's had far superior engines.

[Hoosier_Daddy]

spoken from a true kawi fan right there.

Yeah, what's wrong with that? Are you speaking in behalf of Honda because you're a Honda fan? Why is it OK for you but not the Kawi guys?

I just don't understand why the Honda guys get all bent out of shape when kawi guys bring up the superior Tecates. The truth is the truth. Getting upset about it, isn't going to change what really happened. Ride on!!:beer

[edog]

Honda took it to the next lever and never looked back.

Mad props to the Kawi first gen water pumpers.

[dansvan]

Thats why you see so many Kawis around. Superior overall product would equal larger numbers no?

[WaimakRydah]

Thats why you see so many Kawis around. Superior overall product would equal larger numbers no?

I've never seen a single kawasaki trike in my life in person or on trademe.

[Hoosier_Daddy]

What does the rarity of Tecates have to do with them being superior racers to Honda?

Why are small block Chevys so common vs Ford and Dodge? Is it because Ford and Dodge are junk? Why is it so easy and cheap to build a small block Chevy and it is harder to find aftermarket parts and more expensive to build old Fords and Dodges?

I think people get confused when it comes to a maker that was in the right place at the right time to corner the market in after market parts and people mistaken see that as in a certain company is superior. That just isn't true.

The bottom line is, Hondas were everywhere. They jumped out in front of everybody and people caught on and stuck with them. The other manufactures were beat to the punch and had less of a following because of it. The after market opened up for Honda and since there were so many more made, they are easier to find parts for and more readily available.

None of that has anything to do with Tecates being a better race machine then Honda. You can hate it, disagree with it, dislike it all you want, but Tecates were superior to 250R's except for 1985 (and even then the KXT 250 was a more powerful engine then the 250R). So deny it if you want, you can't hide from fact.

[Yamatrike400]

Then how do you explain this?
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff257/gdkarma1/3WheelerDragRacing.jpg

Just kidding, i have always liked kawi's and will admit they do seem to make far better machines

[edog]

Then how do you explain this?
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff257/gdkarma1/3WheelerDragRacing.jpg

Just kidding, i have always liked kawi's and will admit they do seem to make far better machines

I don't know about that.:lol:

[factoryX]

ok, why then can some one build a 250r with slight mods, to be faster than a tecate and still be able to hold is reliabilty? tecate was a good bike but they did things kind of wierd...


also, Why can I find a tecate that has been sitting for 19 years because of engine grenade, when I can find a running 250r's all day?

[edog]

ok, why then can some one build a 250r with slight mods, to be faster than a tecate and still be able to hold is reliabilty? tecate was a good bike but they did things kind of wierd...


also, Why can I find a tecate that has been sitting for 19 years because of engine grenade, when I can find a running 250r's all day?

Well said!

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Then how do you explain this?
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff257/gdkarma1/3WheelerDragRacing.jpg

Just kidding, i have always liked kawi's and will admit they do seem to make far better machinesWell, money, better rider, better tuner, it could be a myriad of reasons. Those bikes are far from stock. Who knows what mods have been done. I know you aren't getting too serious in this debate but I'm just sayin. I don't want to get into a full blown argument over this stuff but a case can be made and hold plenty of water in favor of the Tecate.

[Hoosier_Daddy]

ok, why then can some one build a 250r with slight mods, to be faster than a tecate and still be able to hold is reliabilty? tecate was a good bike but they did things kind of wierd...


also, Why can I find a tecate that has been sitting for 19 years because of engine grenade, when I can find a running 250r's all day?
Really? That's news to me because there are plenty of Tecates on Ebay that are running just fine. Just because you found a single Tecate at some point that had a blown engine doesn't mean they were all bad. Also, you can find 250Rs still running because everybody has one and most people who bought them just trail rode them or just used them for recreation. Tecates were racing machines with that single purpose and most people who had them beat them to death because of it. I can assure you, if you go looking for Hondas that have been beat to death in races throughout the years, you'll find plenty of blown engines as well. With that being said, I give Honda the nod for dependability. I've heard things about Tecates and dependability even though I never experienced those problems myself. Honda does have a reputation for dependability. And I give them credit. I've owned plenty of hondas and they were all good solid bikes.

The bottom line for me is, I love the 250R's, Tri Z's and Tecates. But we all take a bit of an alligence to a manufacturer. I happen to be a Ford guy and also like old Pontiacs. But you'll never see me sitting back and spewing that the 70 LS6 Chevelle wasn't an excellent monster of a car just because I don't like Chevy. Because that's crazy talk. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and give credit where credit is due.

[chris200x]

Everyone is intitled to an opinion so here is mine! I would put honda relabilitlity up against a kawasaki any day of the week. I would much rather be a mile or two an hour slower than always be in the garage wrenchin on my ride. IMO

[ProCarbine2k1]

I dont think anyone can argue Honda's reliablity over any other make. Not to say Kawasaki, Yamaha, or Suzuki didnt make fine machines, but there is a reason for Honda's "cult like following." :):) I say this unbiased, I wouldnt trade my Yamaha or Kawasaki for the world!

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Yes, Honda has the edge on dependability. But when did this discussion turn from who has the baddest, fastest bike to reliability?

That's always the excuse for the Honda guys to fall back on when these discussions come up so I'll let 'em have it. haha:lol: :twisted:

[big schott]

yeah but kawi lead the way when it came to the innovation of liquid cooling, not honda. kawi dropped the first liquid cooled 250 2 stroke motor into a trike chassis in 83 ( 84 model kxt250 a1 ). honda followed the leader this time not the other way around. and from that day on kawi was the major thorn in hondas side.!!!! ROCK ON!!!!!!!!!!!!

But they're GREEN!!!!,,, The color of frogs and lizzards aaaannnndddd,,,,,,Puke.:lol: :lol:

Just kidding, Kawi has its place in history.:beer

Plus,, It is a Three wheeler, and that makes us friends:TrikesOwn

[Merge_88]

I have both, I ride both, and I love both. Who the hell cares........lets go racin'!!!

[factoryX]

Really? That's news to me because there are plenty of Tecates on Ebay that are running just fine. Just because you found a single Tecate at some point that had a blown engine doesn't mean they were all bad. Also, you can find 250Rs still running because everybody has one and most people who bought them just trail rode them or just used them for recreation. Tecates were racing machines with that single purpose and most people who had them beat them to death because of it. I can assure you, if you go looking for Hondas that have been beat to death in races throughout the years, you'll find plenty of blown engines as well. With that being said, I give Honda the nod for dependability. I've heard things about Tecates and dependability even though I never experienced those problems myself. Honda does have a reputation for dependability. And I give them credit. I've owned plenty of hondas and they were all good solid bikes.

The bottom line for me is, I love the 250R's, Tri Z's and Tecates. But we all take a bit of an alligence to a manufacturer. I happen to be a Ford guy and also like old Pontiacs. But you'll never see me sitting back and spewing that the 70 LS6 Chevelle wasn't an excellent monster of a car just because I don't like Chevy. Because that's crazy talk. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and give credit where credit is due.




ok, type 250r on ebay and see how many pop up, running... yes kawi is fast but also likes a certain corner in the garage too. I like tri-z's yes they are not the fastest bike, but I like them. kawi has supurb handling but it has a non bullit proof motor that would like to go bang... I have seen multiple t3/t4's on craigs list with 1st,2nd,3rd gear completely blown out.. the only R's that I have sean this happen is the chain snapping and cracks the case causing it to shatter a gear.

[dansvan]

Build a better mouse trap and the world will beat a path to your door. 250R=better mouse trap?

[Hoosier_Daddy]

ok, why then can some one build a 250r with slight mods, to be faster than a tecate and still be able to hold is reliabilty? tecate was a good bike but they did things kind of wierd...


also, Why can I find a tecate that has been sitting for 19 years because of engine grenade, when I can find a running 250r's all day?
So you can find a 19 year old 250R that still runs but not a Tecate? Then why does every 250R listed on ebay right now have a rebuilt engine? Something had to give in order to feel the need to rebuild right?

Also, if it's so easy to find a "grenaded" Tecate, then please post a few links to them so I can check it out. All the ones on ebay run good and the ones I can find on craigslist are fine. I think you rely on hear-say too much. You're a Honda guy and you're so used to shootin' the breeze with the other Honda guys that you haven't actually listened to what you guys were saying when your crackin' on the Kawasaki's. Am I right? Have you ever owned or experienced a Tecate for yourself?

[WaimakRydah]

if what some of you are saying is true then how come a second hand KXF250 usually is alot cheaper then a CRF250R which is the same year?

[factoryX]

4 tecates on ebay right now, 1 quad, 3 trikes, 1 not running... ok, another thing is people get the bike and want to make sure every thing is good by rebuilding the whole motor running or not... people buy tecate's, rebuild them only to have them blow up after a month of use... they where ment to do one thing, race and that was about it... honda was able to make a race bike compatible for other riding options...

I am not ripping kawi's, my dad has owned 2 of them, a 85 and a 86 loved them both very much was about to buy another untill he decided to do some research and decided to stay away... the 85 one was his/brothers and it was caught speeding on a highway at 115mph(grandfather owned a repo buisness).

yamaha has a water pump issue and it likes to blow up the motor.

what ever your opinion is....

[factoryX]

if what some of you are saying is true then how come a second hand KXF250 usually is alot cheaper then a CRF250R which is the same year?



newer bikes are good, people are just hyped up on crank about honda bikes being the best...

[Hoosier_Daddy]

4 tecates on ebay right now, 1 quad, 3 trikes, 1 not running... links? I want to see the links to those auctions. I can't find them.


ok, another thing is people get the bike and want to make sure every thing is good by rebuilding the whole motor running or not... people buy tecate's, rebuild them only to have them blow up after a month of use... they where ment to do one thing, race and that was about it... honda was able to make a race bike compatible for other riding options...You can't be serious.

[factoryX]

links? I want to see the links to those auctions. I can't find them.

You can't be serious.




http://motors.shop.ebay.com/_ATVs__tecate_W0QQ_nkwZtecateQQ_catZ66466QQ_fxdZ1Q Q_pcatsZ6000

http://motors.shop.ebay.com/Motorcycles___tecate_W0QQ_nkwZtecateQQ_catZ6024QQ_ fromZR40QQ_pcatsZ6000

even found another one...

how is this bs? people riding the snot out of something 22 years but still runs great? you would not want to check every thing out or put new parts on?
is this not what you are supposed to do when rebuilding a 20 year old bike?

[Hoosier_Daddy]

http://motors.shop.ebay.com/_ATVs__tecate_W0QQ_nkwZtecateQQ_catZ66466QQ_fxdZ1Q Q_pcatsZ6000

http://motors.shop.ebay.com/Motorcycles___tecate_W0QQ_nkwZtecateQQ_catZ6024QQ_ fromZR40QQ_pcatsZ6000

even found another one...

how is this bs? people riding the snot out of something 22 years but still runs great? you would not want to check every thing out or put new parts on?
is this not what you are supposed to do when rebuilding a 20 year old bike?
You said you had 3 or 4 that didn't run on ebay. The link you just posted had ONE Tecate that doesn't run (and it's beat all to hell with mismatched parts, no wonder?) and the rest all say "runs great". So where are all there junk non-runners?

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I see Honda guys constantly ragging Tecates about reliability and the Hondas might be more reliable in general but you guys stretch it out so far that it is unrealistic. You guys act like you can't drive a Tecate off the showroom without it blowing an engine half way down the trail. that is ridiculous. Tecates held together long enough to win tons of races.

Check out these links. In the last video, look closely at the race, out in front, all you see is a sea of green. The first 2 videos speak for themselves. You Honda guys keep riding that dependabilty excuse and the Tecates will just keep winning races.:beer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdH1FZZnaLQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY1nk-G_kWk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvGrJVdCf64&feature=related

[factoryX]

I said the 4 bikes with one not running... I am done, if you have trouble reading then there is no reason for this...

[factoryX]

read this...

http://www.quadpit.com/mags/1986/stories/250shootout02.html

[scooterroo]

ok well your showing the 86's, this thread is about the 81 atc 250r. here is a dirtwheels article about the 84's. basically the same atc seeing is how it is air cooled, and honda has had a few years to iron out the wrinkles on their machine, and the first year t3. the answer is all that needs to be said about the AIRFOOLER r's vs. the t3. you guys can go on crying and whining about this one being more dependable, and that ones inferior, and 20 years old this ones crap, or whatever. everyone has their opinions, their favorites, no one is the same. this article puts it in plain english so i think everyone should be able to read it, an airfooler r, not a liquid 86, the final year of the bike when they finally got it right and the first year t3.

geeeeeeeeeez, all this arguement over one persons comment on the thread. lol, and oops i think i was the one who started this. lol, LET THE GOOD TIMES ROLL!!!

[hadar]

I would like to point out that the 81 cr250 was liquid cooled. Honda just choose to go with the aircooled engines in the early three wheelers. They had the technology but didn't want to use it for some reason. I like both kawi and honda trikes, each has it's own charm.

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I said the 4 bikes with one not running... I am done, if you have trouble reading then there is no reason for this...No, you've been going on about how you can find broke down Tecates all day long but all the Hondas are running. Then you post up a link that has several great running Tecates and one junker. I asked you to point me toward all those "grenaded" Tecates and I still have yet to see links to them.

And the article you posted below your post, the big 3 shootout, I have read that article many times, and the Tecate wins the shootout. So, are you conceding that the Tecate is the best race bike?

[Hoosier_Daddy]

ok well your showing the 86's, this thread is about the 81 atc 250r. here is a dirtwheels article about the 84's. basically the same atc seeing is how it is air cooled, and honda has had a few years to iron out the wrinkles on their machine, and the first year t3. the answer is all that needs to be said about the AIRFOOLER r's vs. the t3. you guys can go on crying and whining about this one being more dependable, and that ones inferior, and 20 years old this ones crap, or whatever. everyone has their opinions, their favorites, no one is the same. this article puts it in plain english so i think everyone should be able to read it, an airfooler r, not a liquid 86, the final year of the bike when they finally got it right and the first year t3.

geeeeeeeeeez, all this arguement over one persons comment on the thread. lol, and oops i think i was the one who started this. lol, LET THE GOOD TIMES ROLL!!!

Well, the Honda guys outnumber Kawi guys 10 to 1 and all they do is get together to gang up and talk about Hondas reliability and stretch how bad Kawasakis reliabilty is. I've been a Kawi guy forever and I've been dealing with this forever. After a while it just gets old, it's just propaganda and in the end I always end up finding out that the Kawi haters have never even owned a Kawi and they are going by hear-say. I love all the 3 wheelers. they all have something special about them. But, it gets so tired hearing all the Honda hype.

The Tecate was made with one purpose in mind, racing. It wasn't made to take a beating for 20 years and not need rebuilt. And I got news for those Honda guys, the 250R isn't going to last 20 years witout needing rebuilt either.

Sorry, if I sound confrontational, but this is as bad as the old Chevy vs. Ford argument. And some of the things being said and made up gets ridiculous. So, I can't help but get caught up in it. I appologize to anybody who may be offended. I just love my Kawi's and feel the need to defend them. Is that so wrong?

[Dammit!]

Sorry, if I sound confrontational, but this is as bad as the old Chevy vs. Ford argument.

Then stop contributing to it. You sound just as bad as the Honda people. :lol:

I don't give two s**ts what people ride. The bottom line is the big three were seperated by hairs in their final incarnations. The T3 had a couple more horsepower than the R. The R had a couple more than the Z. The R had the best suspension. The Z had the best ergonomics. The T3 had a powervalve. Blah blah blah they were so close a couple of very minor mods would close any gap that existed and nobody that raced them left them stock anyway so it's all moot.

http://movementarian.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/arguing_on_the_internet.jpg

[hublake]

Wow!!! One of the more enlightening threads.

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Then stop contributing to it. You sound just as bad as the Honda people. :lol:Because I have to sit here and defend Kawasaki against ridiculous untrue allegations?

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I won't continue to argue about this because, well, it is kinda childish now that I took time to look at it:eek: and the last thing i want to do is make enemies. 3 Wheelers are rare enough as it is. We don't need to bicker amongst ourselves. i hope you all accept my appologies if I came accross as a bit of an ass.:lol:

[scooterroo]

ok then im a chevy man!!!!!! f@ck ford!!!

[Hoosier_Daddy]

ok then im a chevy man!!!!!! f@ck ford!!!LOL. Ford for me with the exception of Trans Ams and GTO's!!

Also love the new Pontiac G8's. :w00t:

[Dammit!]

ok then im a chevy man!!!!!! f@ck ford!!!

I lol'd :lol:

These are the kind of threads you see three years later and you're embarassed by the s**t you said so I stopped defending my favorite trikes/parts a long time ago. :beer

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I lol'd :lol:

These are the kind of threads you see three years later and you're embarassed by the s**t you said so I stopped defending my favorite trikes/parts a long time ago. :beer
I agree. I am going to quit defending as well. Because if those guys don't like Tecates, that's fewer people I have to fight for parts.:lol:

[edog]

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h196/edog_02/sigpic13491_1gif.jpghttp://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h196/edog_02/sigpic13491_1gif.jpghttp://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h196/edog_02/sigpic13491_1gif.jpghttp://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h196/edog_02/sigpic13491_1gif.jpghttp://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h196/edog_02/sigpic13491_1gif.jpg

[3Razors]

I like Honda alot for their engineering but they are not the same company that they were in the 80's. Back in the day Honda continuesly engineered/updated and introduced new machines. I've heard from multiple sources that sometime around the late 80's early 90's the company changed leadership and direction. Even today they are always last to introduce a new bike to compete with and by the time it gets to the market the industry is already ahead. And they will keep the same design year after year. I know their slogan says "performance first" but I think thats a stretch it should be more something like "reliability first."

[factoryX]

I agree with that statement...

[WaimakRydah]

I like Honda alot for their engineering but they are not the same company that they were in the 80's. Back in the day Honda continuesly engineered/updated and introduced new machines. I've heard from multiple sources that sometime around the late 80's early 90's the company changed leadership and direction. Even today they are always last to introduce a new bike to compete with and by the time it gets to the market the industry is already ahead. And they will keep the same design year after year. I know their slogan says "performance first" but I think thats a stretch it should be more something like "reliability first."

agreed.
I also dont like how they have killed off alot of there high earning models such as the ATC(although they had to do that for 10 years) but theyve also killed off the entire CR line (which they had been making since the 70s) and majority of the XR line i would be willing to sacrafice some performance in exchange for reliability because at the end of the day its reliability thats going to get you home from a long trail ride. Not performance.

[elcamino12sec]

Haha, just started reading this thread and I think its pretty funny.
This thread has turrned into a "my D!CK is bigger than yours" type of thread. I say who cares! Honda has always sold more of anything than any other company, so naturally they will have a better following. Not to say they are better or worse than the competition, I would ride anything as long as its not a Roketa, Yamoto or anything else that came from Harbor Freight.