new guy learning about a 200s

[dutinsss]

hey whats up, i just bought my first 3wheeler, an '84 atc200s. the plastic is pretty beat up and paineted black, its pealing and the light fell off, but it runs good! haha. i really dont care about looks, i just want to build the motor a little bit to be a little more responsive and fun. i've been researching and i've found that a uni filter, full exhaust, xr cam, xr carb, and a ported 200x head, new tires and sprockets is about the most you can do to these motors on a budget. How hard is it to install these things? is it pretty straight forward? I've rode fourwheelers all my life so this isn't a whole new world to me. and how much difference would these individual upgrades ACTUALLY make? The cam, filter, and carb will come first, i'll probably hold off on the head. also, would a 200x or an xr200 carb be best? i dont want to over-carb it because i'll use it mainly to trail and mud ride. but me and my friend thats getting a 400ex have a "grudge" match that i know i'll loose, but we're just having some fun with it.:p sorry for the huge post. thanks a lot!

[dutinsss]

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm130/dutinsss/3wheeler.jpg

[topless]

We've done (2) 200s in the past few months. One trike got a stock 200x piston that bumps the compression from 7.8:1 to 9.6:1, ported the stock head with a valve job, Unifilter, and exhaust. It is safe to run in hot weather on 91 octane.
The other trike got a 12:1 piston that we machined the dome down to get to about 10.5:1 compression, same head work, Unifilter & burned out stock exhaust (so far), it's faster than the other one, but takes a splash of race gas in the heat for us to feel safe.
We have a bone stock '84 200s and the other 2 run away several bike lengths in 100 feet. We haven't topped either of them out with gps, but my son on his Enduro motorcycle, clocked the first one at 55 mph and we ran out of room.
The 200x piston will make more difference than the head because of the compression ratio and it's cheap. If the bore is in good shape (200s & 200x have the same bore, crank & rods), the new piston with rings is about $25 and a gasket kit is $16 and you can do it in a few hours. The second trike, we had to bore .030", so add $50 to the price for boring and the piston kit was $40, it was a forged aftermarket. We haven't changed cams.
For trail riding, they are really faster than the suspension, in the dunes, they are fine.

[dutinsss]

ok, thats great info. i think i'll go with a 200x piston. i want to keep it reliable and cheap. These motors seem easy to work on, i think i could do everything but the port job by myself. you never mentioned anything about the carbs though. did you stick with the stock 200s carb on both trikes? also, hows the stock clutch hold the extra power? and what year xr cam do i need to look for? i've heard they changed the cam profiles for some years. sorry for all the questions at once, just trying to plan this build out.

[Macs]

Welcome to the board!!!!

If you do raise the compression i would also do a little polishing on the head ports while you have it off. Also i would give it a valve job, Wouldnt hurt and cheap. I would also go with the 200x carb. If i remember correctly you will also have to change the intake boot to the 200x. I do not recall if the 200x head is very compatible but i think it would be and should be cheap off of ebay. it has been along time since i have messed with an old 200.

[Macs]

I also wanted to add everything should be straight forward. You should be able to use the search link on here to find out any info just in case you run into a bind. I am pretty sure this has all been covered a few times.

[dutinsss]

thanks for the welcome! and yea, i've learned a lot from searching before my account was approved. i've never done any port work, but i've got a friend that has so i'll go ahead and do that while the heads off. i wonder how i'll hold up against that 400ex once i get it all done. my guess is i'll still get raped, haha.

[oscarmayer]

i thought about that but decided to do something different on my 185s motor.
went with a weisco piston that is about a 10.25:1 comp, and doing a complete new valve job and head work. the head will be decked and compression is expected to hit about 11.5:1 (perfect for 91 or 93 super when properly tuned)

but i'm not on that much of a budget so she's also getting about .5mm larger valves installed.

the whole bike is being rebuilt frame up. I'll post pics this weekend of the progress. it's the same as your 200s except mine is a 185cc vs your 200cc.

the cam and header won'd do that much good. your going to make your most power out of doing a higher comp piston and headwork. the head work is the magic wand in the mix.

[84honda200s]

thanks for the welcome! and yea, i've learned a lot from searching before my account was approved. i've never done any port work, but i've got a friend that has so i'll go ahead and do that while the heads off. i wonder how i'll hold up against that 400ex once i get it all done. my guess is i'll still get raped, haha.



you would be surprised. i mean you probably wont win but if the motor is built good and the gearing is rite you could hang with a stock 400ex. now if you were to race a stock 300ex you have a good chance at beating his butt with a well built 200 motor.

i had a ok built motor before i built the one i have now and it was bored 3mm with 10.25:1 wisco piston, high cam, mild port job, 26mm carb, and bassani exhaust. thing hauled butt for a 200s. daynm i miss that thing



anyway man when you do high compression you will go threw recoil parts a little more offen. even with the decompression it still has some hefty compression to it and usually wares out the cage and dogs in the recoil. (thats what ive found happening anyway)



oooo and welcome to the forums.

[dutinsss]

how hard is it to do head work? i have access to a dremel tool, but i dont want to screw something up and have to buy a new head if you know what i mean. the first day i got it, he clocked me at 30mph but the carb was out of tune and it'd break up at anything above 1/2 throttle in 5th. i dont want to have to constantly fix parts, like the recoil starter, so i think i'll go with a 200x piston. but what year 200x piston and what year xr cam do i need to look for?

[oscarmayer]

oh, please do NOT attempt to do it yourself. you can actualyl make it run worse than better. it's not a matter of openign the holes up, it's a matter of smoothening the flow out "correctly". You will be supprised at how many people try to do their own porting and end up messing it up so bad the head is trash. The place i'm using has access to cnc porting machines, high end flow machines and high end CNC valve machines. It's not cheap. but they do the best work i have ever seen. They really don't do bike stuff but I'm personal friends with the owner. i'm sure if there was enough people interested, he would be willing do some work on them. but again there has to be enough people.

you can call them and see what they say. www.theoldone.com is the website. they do my drag civic work, and work on the cars i pitcrew for. so i know their quality. anyway it doesn't hurt to ask.

i have never done the 200x thing myself. you may want to ask that in a seperate thread and pos tthe correct results here. that or spend the $125 and get a new weisco piston W/ compelte top end gasket set. (fyi, cometic makes the kits weisco uses) i went .080 over wich is a 2mm overbore (.040 is 1mm)

you may want to look at doing a carb rebuild. a kit off ebay is about $20 or so shipped usually. it may not be a jetting issue, but a clogging issue.
also change the fuel filter and drain the tank and clean it. could be crud in it. the plug can also be goign out or the ignition coil (which is what the sparkplug plugs into).

sounds liek it's almost there, but these old machines need tlc a lot. their not jsut run and play. they require maintenance and if your not doing a complete restore such as i ma, your going to be doing a lot more maintenance that I will be as my still will all be in top condition and yous is used and needs tlc to stay running. it will run, jsut needs more small stuff done here and there. not much different than a odl used car compaired to a new or compeltely restored one.

I hope my info is helping. Good luck man!

[topless]

We used stock carbs and just tuned them. The second trike got a little bigger cam, but I have no idea where it came from. We measured it and it had a little more lift and duration than the stock cam. We built these 2 out of 3 junkers and a box of spare parts I bought off e-bay. The stock carbs are fully tunable and it really wasn't too hard to get them running strong. The trike with the stock 200x piston got a bigger head pipe on the exhaust, but still runs a stock muffler.
I don't think you'll have any trouble out running a stock 400, mainly because you should have about equal power and be a lot lighter.
I almost forgot, we went up 2 teeth on the rear sprocket too. They're quicker than our stock 200s and still faster on top.

[seddon]

i think a 04 xr cam will work i put one in my bike and it runs great

[dutinsss]

is everything besides the porting pretty straight forward? like the piston and cam? and i thought i read somewhere that there were specific years that the xr cam was better than other years.

[oscarmayer]

yup it's pretty easy. now one of the best things you can do is have a good 3 or 5 angle valve job done to it. especially if your not doing porting work. this will at least help with the flow in and out of the valve seat areas.

[dutinsss]

ok, i think i'll do everything that i can do myself first, then find somebody to do some head work. I have no idea where i'd take it to get it done though.

So far it's looking like:
uni filter
complete exhaust(undecided on brand)
xr cam
200x piston
200x or xr carb(anybody know the pros and cons of each?)
new sprockets(undecided on what gearing to go with)
new tires, probably 22's
head work

This wont be all at once though.

[topless]

Your choice in tires will have a big affect on the performance too. Originally I used the tires that came on mine, they were a 22 x 11-8 Chevron tread that weighed 23 lbs each, mounted. I replaced them with stock Honda tires that mounted up only weigh 14lbs each, and it was a huge performance difference. I've run the Honda tires in sand, mud, dirt, grass and I will not run a different tire, they work on these old 3 wheelers. The tires add to your rotating mass and the lighter the better if your looking for speed & quickness.

[dutinsss]

i've got 25'' cheng shins on it right now. so it really is a lot of rotating mass. what size and brand of stock tires did you get?

[topless]

22 x 11 -8 Honda, it's the stock replacement tire. I bought them from the local Honda dealer. We have a extremely nice, completely original '84 200s, and it was going places that I got stuck in with the Cheng shins and wheelied up easier.
They cost about $50 each, but I've not been stuck since I put them on. My trike will wheelie on the 2-3 shift now, (of course it will wheelie in 1st & 2nd, but now you have to be ready if your wringing it out when you shift into 3rd).

[dutinsss]

ok, cool man. 22's sound good, that way i wont be sacrificing too much clearance.

[rdlsz24]

I'm also looking at options when putting back my engine. Just curious why does a 200x piston increase compression over a 200s piston?

Rob

[Mikeproc]

you can make a lot more power out of these little 200s then you think the guy who said youll go through rope pulls is right a power hungry 200s eats up rope pulls. im currently working on a new motor so ill let you know how it turns out. i built this last motor just over 5 years ago with uncountable number of hours on it now and it still pulls 3rd gear wheelies like nothing.