Questions about replacing a clutch... 1986 ATC 200x

[roger86200x]

Hello,

I tore apart my 86 200X motor and replaced the clutch discs and springs. When I put it back together the clutch doesnt work properly...I don't think.

I am really missing the boat with something here and I cant figure it out.

The clutch seems to never release.... the front sprocket will never spin freely and when I kick it over the front sprocket turns as well.

I've tried tightening the bolts through the springs all the way in, slightly loose, Ive tried half in, and as loose as I could to get the cover on..... nothing seems to work. I can push the bearing/top plate/bolts in and the clutch pack loosens but I still cant get the front sprocket to spin....

I did soak the discs in oil as lots of people told me to....

Do I need to fill the motor with oil before the clutch will work properly? I dont want to fill it if I have the clutch assembled wrong.....

I put the "basket" in on the shaft on the motor and then put the clutch discs and plates on the splined holder they go on and then put the other end of that on (the part with the posts the springs/bolts go in/on) and I put it all together bolted everythign up and ....it never releases.....

What am I doing wrong? I did take note of the way I took it apart.... I even tried the old springs again thinking it was too tight... I adjusted the clutch cable all the way tight.... I cant get the clutch pack to release..well I cant get the front sprocket to turn with the clutch pack in.... the shaft/sprocket turn fine when the clutch pack is out....


can someone give me the 101 on how to assemble the complete clutch setup on my 86 200x? I think it'll be easier that way....

[TheFamer]

Hey the one bit of info i have for you, you should have to put the outer or inner basket in, i dont know what the book calls it but its the first part you put on and if fits the larger shaft, you should have a spindle washer that goes in there before you start putting in the plates and discs, i bought a xr200r and the guy before me put that washer behind the final nut.

my clutch was always engaged, i couldn't release it, i put that washer in the correct place, and bang! i was back on the trail.

so hope that helps, maybe look at a oem website with the broke down drawing of each piece to guide you through it.

[roger86200x]

DUH! omg, that could be it!!! I know i didnt put a washer in there.... dang it!

Also, for the record... do I crank the bolts all the way in that go through the spings? I dont have a torque wrench :( I know its 7-9 ft lbs... but is that gonna be tightened all the way down??

THANKS!

Roger

[jeopardy98]

DUH! omg, that could be it!!! I know i didnt put a washer in there.... dang it!

Also, for the record... do I crank the bolts all the way in that go through the spings? I dont have a torque wrench :( I know its 7-9 ft lbs... but is that gonna be tightened all the way down??

THANKS!

Roger

Hey man, I was once like you and didn't own a torque wrench. Never really thought it was an important tool but one day I broke down and bought a cheap $30 one from Sears. I quickly realized how wrong you tend to be when using the "tight enough" method. It's a great investment and I can't believe I went so long without one.

Also, good luck getting the clutch fixed.

[roger86200x]

well.... its still all *EDIT* up......

That washer was already in there....so no luck there....

I got it now so that i put the chain on the front sprocket and pull on either end with both hands the chain slowly and not smoothly moves....its VERY hard to pull/turn the sprocket.....

Also, the brand new clutch cable I have has to be adjuted ALL the way tight to even start to move the clutch.... the old one is the same way....

How can the cable need to be adjusted all the way out?? Its like Im missing somethign completely in there.......I am looking at diagrams, etc and NO LUCK.

I just dont understand this.....

Its like the clutch isnt releasing all the way... but I have no perch adjutstment or cable adjustment left.....I snugged the clutch spring bolts all in tight.....

The clutch actuator lever on the case is like half way before it hits the clutch....

any ideas?

Roger

[Dirtcrasher]

Not owning a torque wrench can be accepted.

Tightening the bolts by hand and feel can be effective.

Not understanding the job of the Bolts that hold the springs in place is CRAZY.....

You guys that ask these questions have no buisness replacing a clutch, I'm not trying to be a dick but honestly, if you don't understand whts going on in there and aren't even using a manual, your just gonna make stuff worse on yourself.

Put up a post about how a clutch actually works? or download a Manual from DAMMIT! here on the boards. But please, for your own sake get some info before your tear into a motor.

[roger86200x]

OK mr. im gonna be an ass instead of help....

Firt off I do understand whats going on in there, and pretty well.

Its a VERY simple concept.

If I have tried them very tight, loose and snug and the results have all been the same, I cant see how its whether or not I have a torque wrench - plenty of people do it without them - or so they say.

Please explain to me how not being EXACT causes the same problem?

AND THEN explain to me how it makes my clutch cable need to be adjusted so much....

THEN I will listen to you.

You cant just say your an idiot and not have a reason.... why not explain WHY it needs to be exact or how too tight will affect my situation or too loose will affect it - then maybe we can make progress instead of bickering.

[Twilight]

are you sure the pic that pushes the clutch is in there right? just because it looks in there doesnt mean its right.

Also make sure the clutch cable is right.

DC is right, Heres a way to understand;

Too loose- breaks and rips up engine
Too tight- same thing, under friction bolts can break.
No manual- nothing to by but memory.

Check the clutch cable and the pin that moves in and out on the case.

[roger86200x]

The pin that moves in and out seems to be fine, it moves in and out properly and the spring/tension is fine...its turned once and then the pin goes in.. its in there so the pin is fluch, then the pin is fully extended.

The cable is brand new, and I have the old one which was fine as well. They BOTH are wayy too loose - they have to be adjusted fully and it isnt enough still.

I tried loosenin the bolts a bit so that the sping plate/bearing would move closer to the case too.... but that didnt help much....

I am looking at the diagrams online and reading and listening to other's advice to get this back together. This type of thing normally isnt difficult at all and its a VERY easy concept.... I dont know whats goin on...

[Dirtcrasher]

OK mr. im gonna be an ass instead of help....

Firt off I do understand whats going on in there, and pretty well.

Its a VERY simple concept.

If I have tried them very tight, loose and snug and the results have all been the same, I cant see how its whether or not I have a torque wrench - plenty of people do it without them - or so they say.

Please explain to me how not being EXACT causes the same problem?

AND THEN explain to me how it makes my clutch cable need to be adjusted so much....THEN I will listen to you.

You cant just say your an idiot and not have a reason.... why not explain WHY it needs to be exact or how too tight will affect my situation or too loose will affect it - then maybe we can make progress instead of bickering.

I'm not telling you crap :lol: I'm sure someone else will feel bad for you though....

You burned your bridge with me kid :banned:

This was what you said - " Firt off I do understand whats going on in there, and pretty well. Its a VERY simple concept. " - yet you have no idea what the clutch spring retaining bolts do. OMG, you kill me........

Good luck buddy, I'm headed out for a blast on my 86X, The Barnett clutch works AWESOME!! :naughty: :beer :D

[roger86200x]

Go for it douche bag. I really could care less.... Thats a better name... DB

I said instead of insulting me you could have given advice, instead of being a dickhead.

Furthermore, I do know exactly what the bolts and every other part in the clutch setup do, its just a question of putting it back together 100% correctly. I stated that no matter the tension on the springs I had the same problem, that makes me think Im missing a spacer or something like that....

It wont be long and it'll be back up and running.

oh yah... WITHOUT a shop manual i tore down the top end replaced the piston, had the cylinder bored out, etc and put it back together - and it fired right up after assembly.... you dont HAVE to have one unless your a n00b.

[willrideanythin]

Can you girls behave? Im in the process of redoing my 87 and will doing a clutch. If you dont mind I would like to learn something.

[Dirtcrasher]

Hey there Roger Rabbit......

Name calling, I love it :) I insulted you? you insulted you 200X, poor thing is in tears :lol:

My original post wasn't intended to "insult" you, merely I intended to point out your lack of knowledge and the advantage you'd have by asking other questions and checking out a manual.

Read all of you posts and try to understand and comprehend why I suggested you post about "how a clutch works" and offered you a suggestion to a free OEM manual from DAMMIT!

In some of your 1st posts you weren't even sure if oil had to be in the motor for the clutch to work. Read them yourself, I'm not making up anything. Your the one who's ignorant.

Yes, I'll be your "douchebag", the same douchebag that will buy your broken ATC for cheap and fix it an hours time.

I've wrenched for 25 years and still use a manual as a reference. They aren't for Noobs, they're for people that want their repairs to work and last. Your OEM topend lasted over 20 years, will the one you put be just as reliable?

BTW, the *EDIT* springs are what hold your plates together and keep them from slipping. The torque merely keeps them tight enough so they don't come loose and not over torqued so they break off. There is no "setting" for them, ok top end genius?

I understand your anger and I'm OK with it, good luck with your trike.

[roger86200x]

Anyone with any motor experience knows what the bolts do DC... and according to others there is a "setting"...its 7-9 ft/lbs

Also, by saying that I need to post about how a clutch works WAS being an ass. Its a simple mechanical device....not hard to understand. YES I did not know EXACLTY how a wet clutch setup behaves without the motor FULL of oil, thats why I asked the question... it doesnt mean I havent worked on a clutch or 2 in my time - but its motly been trucks wit hdry clutches - but the same principles. So YES I was ignorant about one thing....

You DID NOT have to pretend like I knew nothing and that you knew all the answers.

and YES I was VERY frustrated, that why I posted.

Getting past that....

I fixed my problem. The Farmer... you were on the right track. THANK YOU! When I checked the washer it WAS in there, then I took the basket out and put it in the vat of oil to soak again and dropped the *EDIT* washer off it - it stuck to the basket with all the oil residue. Before that I determined that there was some little piece of metal behind one of the discs and it wwas causing it to lock up.

My biggest problem was inconsistency - because I got frustrated. I had the washer on - tested it, had other problems and then put the washer back in in the re-construct process, then forgot it again, etc.... the reason was it was sticking to the basket sometimes and sometimes not...

DC, I WILL come out and say I snapped because it felt like you were calling me a retard - BUT you really did come off as being snooty about the situation.

Willrideanythin - if you have an 87 200x you are doing, I can tell you exactly what to do and not to do...... the main thing is dont forget the dang washer between the clutch basket and the tension plate! Ak me anything you want and I'll try to help ya the best I can.