200x, valves not the problem. Still loud constant tick.

[bigb9000]

S I adjusted the valves to 0.003 per the manual.

Ticking is still presnt, so i adjusted them again, and again, and again.

this last time a hair smaller than 0.003 and now it dosnt run.

My foot is too soor from kick starting it, so i have called it a night.

So, symptoms:

Loud ticking noise. Similar ticking sound you would have if you were running your car without oil. Only a lot louder.

Ticking gets faster & louder and RPMs raise.

Extreme lack of power (could also be caused from running a 110 main jet instead of the origional 115)


Now what do I do? buy a new bike?

[bigb9000]

Just to make sure im adjusting these right, this is the area in question right:

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb157/bigb9000/spring.jpg

(the ? marks being the space im putting a .003 gap into)

[Havoxx]

Aye, that's where you are supposed to adjust it, my dad has an 83 suzuki he just rebuilt, and it makes a huge knocking sound as well, we can't figure out what in the hell it is lol.

[super90]

Could be your cam chain. Could also be a worn out top end.

[hondagrant]

Could be your cam chain. Could also be a worn out top end.

Yeah I agree with super 90,try adjusting your cam chain and check to see if rocker arms dont have to much movement .....good luck........

[scooterroo]

whens the last time you had the top end rebuilt? could be trying to adjust warn parts, which if thats the case your not going to be able to get a percise adjustment. rockers could be warn down, cam lobes could be warn down, timing chain could be stretched. i know my 200x always made a slight tick noise, even when i bought it brand spanky new off the showroom floor back in 85. as the years went by, the tick got a bit louder, and when me and my dad took it apart to do a rebiuld, there was alot of wear and tear in the topend. changed out the timing chain, cam and putin some new rockers, still had a slight tick, but was alot better then before the teardown.

[BigReds Forever]

+2 vote for worn topend parts/camchain stretched /piston slap

[kilabeez0]

cam chain

if that doesn't fix it, new top end

[bigb9000]

Top end is fresh, thats why this problem is here.

Had the top end rebuilt, when they were done, It had this tick. (the bastards)

new top end has less than 15 minutes on it senc rebuild.

[bigb9000]

2: CHAIN, CAM (100L) 210555-001 $53.11
4: ARM 211156-001 $20.49
5: SPRING 211250-001 $3.44
6: BAR 211294-001 $17.05
7: BOLT 211390-001 $4.27
8: GUIDE, CAM CHAIN 211497-001 $33.31
9: CAP, TENSIONER ADJ. 211572-001 $3.04

Should I just get all of that stuff?

Is there a way to check the chain?

[84honda200s]

to check the chain pull the cdi off the cam shaft, the that will let you see the chain. once you see the chain use a screw driver to see if there is slack in the chain. if there is allot of slack try to adjust it (see manual on how to ...i forgot lmao) if it still has slack then replace it. id also do the cam sprocket as well.


as for what to get..id get

cam chain (depends on how the old one is)
cam chain guides
and the cap (if you dont have one)



i wouldt go buying rocker arms or anything like that just yet unless you have good money laying around. i had a motor that ticked allot and adjusting the valves helped a bit. but when that didnt work anymore a new cam chain and guides worked perfectly.


good luck

[bigb9000]

I listened carefully for the noises.

Its all over the engine, top end and bottom. Last time I checked the chain it didn't seem to loose.

Ill change it anyway though.

The manual doesn't go into specifics on how this is done.

ideas?

[84honda200s]

you need to pop the flywheel cover, flywheel and stator out. you also need to take the cam sprocket off along with the cam and rocker cover. but before you do that try this old trick i learned from an old timer.... take a 2x4 or even a 1x1 chunk of wood, put end to a calve cover then put your ear to the other end and listen carefuly. if you hear a ticking its that valve. then do the same for the other valve, cylinder and flywheel cover. i use the method all the time to troubleshoot. it works out pretty good.




god bless the old timers ..... without them id be lost !!

[super90]

it could just be normal noise that your not use to. My friends fully redone top end on his 200x made some ticking noise but there was nothing wrong with it. My 86 made some slight noises but nothing too loud. If you look at the new quads like the 300ex,400ex, and even 450s they all make light ticking noises. I dont know how bad yours is but on my 450 you can hear a little when its idling but you cant hear anything when your riding.

[bigb9000]

....possibly.

my friends makes a similar noise too, only much quieter.

Ill go ride up and down the street and see whats up

[84honda200s]

all my honda motors had a tick.... i could only get rid of the ticking on 1 out of 3 of the motors. it has to be a normal thing for em as long as its not too bad.

[bigb9000]

No, theres deffinately something wrong in there

[84honda200s]

i dont know what else to say other than recheck the valve gaps, and replace the cam chain and chain guides.

[Texas 200x]

You might also check if the camshaft has play in it up and down and excessive side to side with the cdi base still attached. If you take off the stator cover just and flywheel to change the cam chain make sure the tensioner will travel to full tension without the chain on. When i did mine the tension rubbed on the case just a hair and wouldn't take up all the slack, so i filed it down a hair so it will take up slack better when the chain needs it in the future.

[SWIGIN]

you did set the valve while on TDC right?

and 110 is the stock 200x main jet size....108 too depending where it was sold

[Dirtcrasher]

Every XR200 or 83-85 200X motor has a terrible sound until the cam chain and tensioner are changed. The oil pumps get tired as hell too.....

Not sure if the 85's are available but my 87 pump was 40$ complete.

[Erics350x]

im tellin ya, just run em abit tighter than spec. its a 23 year old motor so stock spec's dont always apply. a good 20w50 motor oil will help with the noise some too

[bigb9000]

I tried making the valves a hair tighter, It wouldnt even run like that.

One thing I noticed today too was its smoking a little bit now. pretty weird, it hasnt done that before

Ill give the 20w50 a try. Given the 100+ temps I ride in, it couldnt hurt anything.

Oil pump huh? not a bad idea...

Ill take a video of me riding up and down the street tomorrow, that'll give everyong an idea of what the sound is like. Also, Ill take pic of other possible problems.

[Erics350x]

if its starting to smoke, you might as well dig deeper. sounds like it could be piston slap and/or a worn cam chain

[Sargon2112]

If she's smoking, I'd say shut it down before it causes further damage. Take it apart and find out what's going on like Eric says...

[Yoder350X]

If I were you I would pull the top end and make sure your crankshaft bearings aren't worn out. I work on motorcycles for a living and see this all the time. If theis rod bearing is out is will knock, and as the RPM's increase, so will the knocking. Make sure to check for any side to side play, as well as up and down.

[Erics350x]

side to side play is normal in rod bearings

[bigb9000]

this play normal:?

http://bigb9000.digitalkeg.com/atc/MOV00187.MPG

[84honda200s]

id be checking the rings. it might be piston slap. i sya tare it down man. better to do it now before it locks up on ya.

[bigb9000]

what exacly is piston slap?

And how would this be caused? Because remember, the top end only has maybe an hour on it sence rebuild. Installer installed wrong?

[bigb9000]

spark plug, black & wet. could be caused from my half-ass carb rebuild:

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb157/bigb9000/ATC001.jpg

Spark advance thingy, notice one of its little legs is broken?!?!

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb157/bigb9000/ATC012.jpg

No play in shaft at all, not up, down, side to side, or in and out. But notice the cover is a little chewed inside due to the leg of the spark advancer breaking:

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb157/bigb9000/ATC013.jpg

Chain, no visible wear at ALL, no scraches, rubs, ground areas, it almost looks new.

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb157/bigb9000/ATC015.jpg

I gave it a good push with a screwdriver, and thats as far as it would go.

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb157/bigb9000/ATC017.jpg

[bigb9000]

Now I wanted to tear down to the cam chain tensioner, but the manual says I need myself a rotor puller. what the hell is that, and do I really need it?

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb157/bigb9000/ATC022.jpg

maybe that spark advancer is the problem, ill go start it up with the cover off an see if it makes noise

[bigb9000]

ok, so, I pulled the thread from when I first had this problem, dated 5-03-2005

http://3wheelerworldforums.com/showthread.php?t=35215

[qoute]I ran my 350X dry last year and mine did the same thing with I got it running again. After tearing off the head I discovered it destroyed the cam which in turn destroyed the head and cover.[/quote]

So....

?

[Danold]

One of the most common overlooked areas is where the tappet on the rocker meets the valve(where you were gapping it). When the valves have been ticking for awhile the tappet will make a grooved spot on the valve stem so when you stick the gauges in there to measure and set there is a small dipple where the gauge will not go.

I had mine rebuilt recently and had the same problem. I went through two new cam chains and a cam before I realized the problem and it was as simple to fix as sanding the dipples off the valve and tappets. since then Ive had no ticking noise whatsoever. Take your valve cover off and look at valves and rockers.

[bigb9000]

Valve cover?! I can do that? not just take of the large hole plugs? isnt that the head itself?

anyway, I figured while I had the cover off I would check the timing, turns out it was 2 teeth off, took the tension off the chain and moved it over to teeth to get the timing right (used the T mark)

however, engine sounds better, but does not idle by itself very long (also, could be the carb rebuilders fault)

Then I swapped the spark advancer / TCS (whatever) cover off, and swaped it out for a known good one.

Noise is more of a faint tick now, combind with a small scraping noise.

Scraping noise described

turn a bycicle upside down,
spin the rim/tire.
now very very gentely take a flat headed screwdrive and touch it to the rim,

and thats what it sounds like.

Should I readjust the valves now that the timing is closer?

[bigb9000]

I think Its better now.

It used to strugle going up the driveway in 2nd

Now it'll idle right up it no problem.

still there is a slight tick. but functional

[threewheelin-feelin]

every 200 i have had has made quite the ticking noise...same with my 350x...i think its just a normal thing on hondas...i did..however have a ticking sound on my 350x that would not go away one time...and it was the cam had broke on one side where the timing scrocket bolts to it...and the one on the other side started backing out and the ticking i heard was the bolt tapping on the corner of the head...just a thought but check that maybe?