SHE RUNS...and i need help...230 main and 62 pilot is too small...

[DeePa]

Well hopefully the curse of pennsyltucky is all over now.

Scored this on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=009&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=190212647483&rd=1

shipping price sucks but if i were to resleeve my old cylinder it would have been 350 before it was up and running again anyways, and this has a cool looking head on it.

What you guys think? Anyone seen anything like this before?

Definately going to pin that impeller this time.

Mike

[chris200x]

geez mike, I was bidding on that trying to win it for ya!:eek:

good score man,, you'll be back up and running in no time.:w00t:

[Bryan Raffa]

I was wondering who would end up with that.. nice score Mike

[brrcuda]

Oh boy....You better Hold on tight......:beer Nice snag.

Lets line em up....:cool: I better get my R tuned up and ready.....

[DeePa]

well at least i havent sold out of trikes yet. if i didnt win that cylinder it was damned close to happening.

your old z will never be the same again hahaahah

[Bryan Raffa]

dam.. glad you won that..witch one is this going on?

[tri-Z ripper]

Nice score i was watching that myself!! glad someone from here got it cant wait to here the ride report!!

[DeePa]

its going on the black and red z... the yellow one will sit the way it is until i can figure out a way to get it running again cheap

[brrcuda]

Ahhhh.... the ol black/red 86 running again. Damn near brings a tear to my eye.:w00t:

That thing should rip...

[DeePa]

yeah, i figure alternating the order in which tri-z's blow up. so they are tied at 1 right now. well if you consider the farmer, the yellow z has 2.

cant wait, gonna open it up, get it honed, order new rings, and RUN IT

[DeePa]

hey everyone...

are rings the same for 85 and 86 tri-z's?

im looking at 2 auctions and one says for 85 and one say for 86. Supposedely this top end is an 85.

Any help would be appreciated. Dont want to order the wrong rings, but i really dont think itll make a difference.

Mike

[brrcuda]

should be both 68mm same stock bore. Make sure you get wiseco rings if its a wiseco piston though.. Check another source like DK for cross comparison.

[Bryan Raffa]

like cuda said. wiesco's run a touch bigger ring than oem

[DeePa]

it says oem piston in the auction. i take the sellers word for it and order the set of rings.

thanks guys.

mike

[DeePa]

well, sure as *Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited* its a wiesco piston. oh well, ill just use the old rings for now. already had it honed up by sblt500r so it should be ok. everything looks good.

i took some pics to show it in detail.

enjoy them, should have it running by tomorrow.

mike

[DeePa]

a few more...

what do you guys notice about it? type IV porting from trinity is...

Stage IV (Drag, Hill, Very Aggressive Play, TT)
- Top-end power emphasis

this is going to be quite the trail machine.

enjoy, ill let you know how it runs tomorrow.

[DeePa]

well i got her running yesterday after having dirtcrasher pin my impeller and fighting with the kickstarter gears...

she runs and idles nice, but the jetting is way off.

have a 170 main in there and 58 pilot (i think) and she bogs bad in low and mid, and then if it ever gets to top end it runs really good up there.

needle is on the 3rd clip.

im going to try to drop the pilot to a 52 and the main to a 160 while leaving the needle where it is and then see what that does for me.

when it did hit top end, it took off like a rocket...

any suggestions feel free. gotta do a compression test, but it seems to run fine on straight 93.

gotta get this running for saturday.

Mike

[brrcuda]

my comment is - get it done...... Cant wait to line em up.....:lol:

Thats why i like stock carbs, they are easier to baseline. But i know your a freak for those big carbs.

[Bryan Raffa]

hope you ran a ball hone in that before you put it on

[DeePa]

paul, yeah i know. gotta get it done

bryan...didnt use a ball hone, used the one with 3 arms with stones on the end. i wanted to do new rings, but the piston was wiesco.

ill just run it until the compression gets too low then bore/hone/piston kit it. It feels good now, just have to do a compression test after i retorque the base and head nuts.

dirtcrasher thought that it was a fuel starvation problem. like the engine wasnt getting enough fuel, but not in the means of running lean.

it feels to me like its just way too rich down low, and takes a lot of effort to clean out and get to high revs. once it gets high, it runs nice.

also when there isnt any load, it revs up much better.

mike

[Dirtcrasher]

Thats why i like stock carbs, they are easier to baseline. But i know your a freak for those big carbs.


I agree 100%...

After we boiled water to STUFF/JAM the 39mm (measures as 40mm) carb into the boot, I knew it wouldn't be a good base to start with....

I won't lie, I honestly didn't even know where to start with the jetting at that point. But, that was 12 hours into a day of wrenching.

I just hope Mikey doesn't ride it until it's close to spot on. but I know him by now.......:rolleyes:

[Bryan Raffa]

sounds good on the hone job.. get that baby jetted!!:w00t: whats the compression at?

[Dirtcrasher]

sounds good on the hone job.. get that baby jetted!!:w00t: whats the compression at?


Yep, we didn't even think about checking it...:rolleyes:

Remind me to do that when you come back Mike :D

[DeePa]

OK...not too much luck yesterday.

Did a compression test= 170ish with a warm engine.

Went to a 160 main and 50 pilot, still does the same thing.

Decided to swap stators and flywheels from the other z which ran fine, and same problem. NOTE...if you ruin your flywheel puller, just take the nut holding the flywheel off, start the trike up, and let it run and rev it up a bit, the flywheel will come off and shoot across the garage floor. Only damage is the flywheel key gets sheared or you loose it somewhere.

I am going to take off the second petcock which i added because i had it. I have no idea if its any good. This will eliminate the fuel starvation question.

If that doesnt work, im going to swap out the ignition coil. If that doesnt work, im going to swap cdi's.

If all of that doesnt work, im going to start with the jetting again. And if that doesnt work, i have 2 tri-z's, a 250r, a 200s, and a 250sx for sale.

any input is highly welcomed.

[ATC-Eric]

NOTE...if you ruin your flywheel puller, just take the nut holding the flywheel off, start the trike up, and let it run and rev it up a bit, the flywheel will come off and shoot across the garage floor. Only damage is the flywheel key gets sheared or you loose it somewhere.

.


Yeah, dont do that! Ive had problems with my flywheel which has ended in a couple of sheared keys. If the motor runs while the flywheel isnt secured on there you'll gum up your crank quick.


Your jetting seems a little on the lean side. I ran a 52, and a 172 on Ronnies ported 250 and it did great. I would suggest the 52, and a 165.

Well also depending on the plug color?

[DeePa]

Well, after making sure fuel delivery and the ignition coil wasnt a problem, I decided to throw the biggest jets I had into my 39mm pwk.

It was a huge improvement, but it still wants more.

put a new plug in, ripped around a little bit, and it was a whiteish gray color.

Biggest jet made is a 230.

What the hell am I going to do?

ANy help is much appreciated.

I have to email the seller and see what he was running for carb/pipe/jetting.

Also, any good ways to get a screw out of a bottom end? Dont ask...

Thanks,

Mike

[Billy Golightly]

You got an airleak somewheres for sure.

edit: retractable magnet for the screw

[DeePa]

where could there be air leaking from?

bottom end is fresh with new bearings and seals.

carb is new, all intake gaskets are there and intake is tight.

where else?

[Billy Golightly]

Anywhere there could normally be one. My 250r did the same thing, I bought huge main jets from dennis kirk (like 240 size, out of the metric catalog) and my base gasket was leaking.

You need to run a leakdown test, thats the only real reliable way of knowing.

http://3wheelerworldforums.com/showthread.php?t=71487&highlight=leak+test

[DeePa]

now, on my other z, i had a 225 main jet to a basically stock non ported motor. only thing that came from that trike is the carb.

is the carb a possibility somehow?

mike

[Billy Golightly]

This same 39PWK carb used a 225 main on a stock motor? What kind of elevation are you at? That just doesn't make sense. It must have had an airleak too :lol:

Seriously, thats the only thing I can think of unless theres some seriously wrong inside the carb, I can't think of anything that would restrict the fuel flow enough to need that big of jets though unless the bowl isn't filling like it should be...

[DeePa]

yeah, same carb, 225 main, 60 pilot, motor ran great until impeller *Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited* the bed.

I have a brand new 39 im thinking of throwing on there. Fuel pump is working fine and i have never messed with the float.

also, carb is only 6 months old or so...

As for the stator side seal, engine runs the same with or without the stator cover, so i guess that ok for now.

i dont know what to do and i really cant spend 225 bucks for the MP leakdown tester and I wont build one.

also, during assembly, a stone with wd40 was run over all sealing surfaces to make sure there werent any high spots to screw me over.

Would an air leak cause it to act weird at idle? it idles fine. sometimes it bogs if i punch it though.

this is very disappointing...



oh well, time to sell out haha

[edog]

yeah, same carb, 225 main, 60 pilot, motor ran great until impeller *Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited* the bed.

I have a brand new 39 im thinking of throwing on there. Fuel pump is working fine and i have never messed with the float.

also, carb is only 6 months old or so...

As for the stator side seal, engine runs the same with or without the stator cover, so i guess that ok for now.

i dont know what to do and i really cant spend 225 bucks for the MP leakdown tester and I wont build one.

also, during assembly, a stone with wd40 was run over all sealing surfaces to make sure there werent any high spots to screw me over.

Would an air leak cause it to act weird at idle? it idles fine. sometimes it bogs if i punch it though.

this is very disappointing...



oh well, time to sell out haha


Really am sorry to here about your bad luck with that Z.Chrissy sold you a lemon hu?Maybe you should do a full oem resto and put it away for 20 years.:welcome:

[Billy Golightly]

Crank it up with the gas tank off, spray soap and water around everything externally, and also the crankcase vent. You might be able to tell something that way without actually pressurizing it but its no guarantee

[jason85atc250r]

yeah, same carb, 225 main, 60 pilot, motor ran great until impeller *Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited* the bed.

I have a brand new 39 im thinking of throwing on there. Fuel pump is working fine and i have never messed with the float.

also, carb is only 6 months old or so...

As for the stator side seal, engine runs the same with or without the stator cover, so i guess that ok for now.

i dont know what to do and i really cant spend 225 bucks for the MP leakdown tester and I wont build one.

also, during assembly, a stone with wd40 was run over all sealing surfaces to make sure there werent any high spots to screw me over.

Would an air leak cause it to act weird at idle? it idles fine. sometimes it bogs if i punch it though.

this is very disappointing...



oh well, time to sell out haha


it's not time to sell out totally just sell out of tri-z's and stick with honda 250r's. :lol: i had mine sitting in the shed for 4 years not being touched and it fired up 5th kick and ran good. barracuda up there seems to be having good luck with his.

no offense RAFFA but the triz is the Yugo of racing rikes.

[Bryan Raffa]

oh PLEASE!..Jason..:rolleyes: any time you wanna run against any of my z's let me know..I'll be at majestic on May 11th.. on the MX track at 12pm;) bring a R:lol:

deep ..the quickest and fastest way to test it is . lay a towel under your carb and spray the whole intake with starting fluid, wile its idleing ..if the idle changes you got a air leak.. I also use yamabond on all my intakes...inbetween everything on the intake's!

[edog]

it's not time to sell out totally just sell out of tri-z's and stick with honda 250r's. :lol: i had mine sitting in the shed for 4 years not being touched and it fired up 5th kick and ran good. barracuda up there seems to be having good luck with his.

no offense RAFFA but the triz is the Yugo of racing rikes.

Bwhaaaaaaaa the Yugo of racing trikes.:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Bryan Raffa]

hey chisel chest.. bring that chevette:lol:

[jason85atc250r]

they dont seem to be near as reliable as 250r's. ive rode a couple and new people that had them back in the day and they all hated them said they were slow stock for stock and handling sucked. the one guy sold his rite away when new after rideing his buddies 250r


it seems like alot of people on hear have alot of problems with theres on here. look at chris when he had it

[edog]

they dont seem to be near as reliable as 250r's. ive rode a couple and new people that had them back in the day and they all hated them said they were slow stock for stock and handling sucked. the one guy sold his rite away when new after rideing his buddies 250r


it seems like alot of people on hear have alot of problems with theres on here. look at chris when he had it

So true........

[chris200x]

junk........ :lol:

[jason85atc250r]

i have no love for triz's never have and never will:lol:

[chris200x]

.. oh and edog you *Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited**E dited*.. this isn't my old Z he's trying to get running.. he blew mine up!

I really have nothing against them.. I'ts just I'm not mechanically inclined enough to tune or own a 2 stroke. lol

HEY raffa.. how long that yami stay runnin againnst chrisD and johnR??? :eek: :eek: :eek: LMFAO!!!!!! :postwhore

[Bryan Raffa]

He blew his tranny! please..:lol: even a little 250 will ware the best of them down,, ask ronnie

guess we'll never get over the fact that honda over populated the market by makeing millions of bikes and every aftermarket company made hop up parts for them ..compaired to a hand full for the yamaha tri z..:cry:

[brrcuda]

Deepa - are you running the mossbarger reed cage on there? f you are put rtv around the gasket edges to seal up tight. I have a recollection that for some reason i had to seal that up due to leakage.

You could try the stock reed cage too but double check the reeds assembly. Usually with leak though you can hear it pulse revv.... I used wd40 to check for leaks, worked good.

I see this has turned into a tri-z vs R debate. They both have their flaws in MO...:beer

Youll get it, it will be something stupid....

[DeePa]

well, i dont have a tube on the crankcase breather if that makes a difference, and no clamp on the vaccum port.

this is the reply from seller

OK. I used a 39 pwk carb. with I believe a 180 main. Things to check: 1. make sure you have no air leaks, look at diaphram pump, hose fittings on cylinder side etc for air leaks. 2. make sure your fuel pump is working correctly and suppling the fuel volume correctly.
It ran good for me with stock reeds and stock intake manifold and a DG pipe

p.s.I have the carburetor (jetted) for 125.00

[brrcuda]

I foresee a bassani in my future......;) :lol: jk

how many gaskets do you have on that intake. Didnt you say you had a reed spacer, with a spacer isnt another set of intake gaskets needed? Just thinking this out here.

[Bryan Raffa]

ya another set is needed

[DeePa]

i have enough gaskets there...cylinder-gasket-spacer-gasket-reecage-gasket-intake

could the fuel pump vaccum line casue this? there definately isnt a clamp on there. Would it be just enough to piss me off?

Mike

[brrcuda]

I dont remember having a clamp on mine - just make sure its tight.

Fill the tank up full - that should eliminate the fuel pump as culprit since head pressure should take over flow.

I take it the petcock was OK?

[DeePa]

the petcock was fine, took it off anyways. mixed up some 50 to 1 and filled the tank too

how important is that crankcase breather tube? theres nothing on there right now

[brrcuda]

the petcock was fine, took it off anyways. mixed up some 50 to 1 and filled the tank too

how important is that crankcase breather tube? theres nothing on there right now


Shouldnt be an issue.....

[Billy Golightly]

The crankcase will be open one way or another but the tube just makes it harder for stuff to go back into it. I think you've got an airleak, whever it might be at.

Say...Was that other motor you were running the 210 that was stock on, this same bottom end, or a whole nother engine completely? If it was the same bottom end...then ya found your problem :)

[DeePa]

it was a different bottom end

im hoping its the pump vaccum line, but who knows.

billy how much you charging to loan out your tester?

mike

[Mosh]

is this the same bike you had the 310 kit on?

[DeePa]

yes it is the same bottom end/trike i had the 310 kit on.

[Mosh]

You were having problems with that running good too,if I recall correctly?

There is no way you should need a 225 main jet.

Pull the oil fill cap and squirt some carb cleaner in there or the crank case vent,and see what it does.

[DeePa]

that problem was just no power. felt like a 200x but revved clean under load and in neutral.

what will the carb cleaner in the crankcase do?

ill give it a shot tonight or tomorrow.

mike

[Mosh]

Well,just a long shot to see if there is a air leak between the trans and crank.

I would think the idle will change drastically if there is a leak.

Hell my 310 pulls like a freak with a PWK 39 48 pilot and 175 main.

There has to be somethin simple being over looked here.
For the heck of it,disconnect your on-off switch and run it.

[hoser]

Somethings wrong that engine should not require that large of jets, you have the stock intake system hooked up, intake boot, air box, air filter?

Last time I seen someone that was using jets that big they were running a clamp on filter, the carb lost all its signal so could not pull the fuel out the jets, he went bigger and bigger until it would dribble out enough to satisfy plug readings.

[DeePa]

mosh, could a bad ground have anything to do with this? so a shiot of carb cleaner in the tranny should make the trike idle really high if theres a leak?

hoser, lost signal...what do you mean? something was wrong with the carb or what?

guys thanks for trying to help

ill give all the ideas a shot later on tonight

[hoser]

mosh, could a bad ground have anything to do with this? so a shiot of carb cleaner in the tranny should make the trike idle really high if theres a leak?

hoser, lost signal...what do you mean? something was wrong with the carb or what?

guys thanks for trying to help

ill give all the ideas a shot later on tonight

Please read what I type.

'you have the stock intake system hooked up, intake boot, air box, air filter?"

[SWIGIN]

your needle is to thick...get a thinner needle with similar taper and lenght and all will be good

[DeePa]

stock intake boot, mossbarger reed cage, stock airbox setup with uni filter

swingn, you really think the needle will take care of everything?

do the needles out of a stock r carb compare soemwhat? Thats the only other needle I would have.

Thanks

[SWIGIN]

you need to find a needle chart and go a step or 2 thinner

my buddy had the same built 350x motor as mine but he had a fat needle and mine is thin.....he was running a 220 main to my 160 main.....both ran perfect and both had similar taper and lenght

[badasskfx]

what type of tester do you need deepa?
cylinder leak down tester?

[SWIGIN]

http://www.carbparts.com/keihin/needles_tuning/pj.htm

[Billy Golightly]

Deepa,

I'm not using the tester on any projects right now. See if we can figure out where its at with the starting fluid tricks, and if not then send me a PM and I'll hook ya up as long as you dont keep it forever and dont break it :)

[DeePa]

well, i went out there today, and used carb cleaner and wd to look for air leaks.

sprayed carb cleaner in clutch cover, trying to get it behind the basket, and no change.

sprayed carb cleaner behind flywheel, no change.

swapped out vaccum line. no change. when i pulled it off though, i saw an increase in idle speed.

sprayed wd all over the intake book, base gasket, head gasket, plug, and no change.

i tried a needle from a stock 85r carb, and it didnt change anything. needle was same length, similar taper, just a little thinner too.

im really thinking about swapping out the carb. its a link between fat jetting on both of my z;s...

although, it was fine with a 175 main before i blew this bike up in the first place.

any other opions?

[Billy Golightly]

WD Isn't really volatile enough unless you've got a huge gaping hole.

If you've got that other carb, swap it out for the same jetting you have in this one and just so it cant lean out and then see what happens. Stand the thing on the grab bar too and check the bottom of the cases under the crankshaft where they meet. The Zs are kind of unprotected in this area and who knows a rock or something might have tapped a hole or crack in the bottom.

[SWIGIN]

a needle will fix it....you just cant be scared to buy a few and try them

whats the 3 letters on your needles.......did you look at the link i posted and find them on the chart?(the factory honda needle will have a different numbering system)