octane booster/update got her fired!!! video on page 3

[evand]

does any one run octane booster? i have never used the stuff and dont know if it would work in a 2 stroke or if it would mix with oil??

when i got my new motor from mosh, he told me to run 94 octane or higher or it will knock. well the only place around me that sells 94 is sunoco and its 45 mins away. they sell 110 to but its 9 bucks a gallon lol...

i would hate to have to drive a hour and a half to get gas everytime i want to ride.

so could i get 92-93 locally and run a bit of quality octane booster?

thanks guys:beer
Evan

[SWIGIN]

id try 92 or 93 and see if it does ping/knock.....if not, dont worry about it

[i58829]

I don't know for sure but i've heard that the octane booster is a hoax becasue they advertise something like 7 points of octane boost. Well that would mean .7, so 87 becomes 87.7, 89 is 89.7, 93 is 93.7 and so on. I'm not sure if thats true or not but it would make sense the way advertising works. The point is buy the good stuff its worth it, and 93/94 isn't going to make a ton of difference. If there's not an issue with 93 then just run it since you can't get 94 locally. The booster isn't worth the cash difference (based on the gallons treated vs. cost of more expensive higher octane gas) if what i've heard is true. Either way just so it runs and doesn't sound like its dying you'll be fine.



Just a little something to think about, NOS makes an octane booster available everywhere, and they also have their name on an energy drink at the local 7-11, TC...

[lndy650]

if someone that builds or sells engines says to run a certian octane Listen to them!! Klotz octane booster works very well my tecate needs 98 octane and i use Klotz octane booster with 93 pump gas. with just 93 it detonates bad...sounds like someone whacking the piston with a ball peen hammer they claim a 10 point gain (93 to 103)and it seems to work great. others like STP and such are a hoax...
it does mix with oil

[evand]

well mosh said the motor would ping on 93 but was fine on 94.. i didnt think that 1 point would make a dif, but ill take his word for it

i saw some octane booster at the local dealership, but i cant remember who made it, but it wasnt klotz. Ill see if i can find the klotz online.

i heard the the stp and NOS are a load of crap. any one try the lucas stuff?


thanks
Evan:beer

[OldSchoolin86]

well mosh said the motor would ping on 93 but was fine on 94.. i didnt think that 1 point would make a dif, but ill take his word for itI'm hoping he meant just stay away from pump gas because 1 octane is not going to make things all better. Buy a couple 5 gallon cans and drive over for that 110. You can mix 2 gallons of that with 3 gallons of 93 and have 100. Don't bother trying to blend to 94 because if 93 won't cut it 94 won't either.

[lndy650]

^ thats like saying one size smaller jet wont make a difference... theres a fine line when it comes to detonation

[Black86tri-z]

evan there's a place called columbus fuel's somewhere out your way that sell's all high grade gases and meth i'll get the # for you it might b real close

[Black86tri-z]

evan there's a place called columbus fuel's somewhere out your way that sell's all high grade gases and meth i'll get the # for you it might b real close

[cr500=3wheeler]

If your going to go through the trouble of having someone build you a performance motor why in the world would you want to suddenly decide to stop listening to him and start doing your own thing, maybe your question to your engine builder should be "with my current financial / location situation what would you recommend I do." He might recommend a different head gasket or he might say pony up and run the good stuff, but either way id give him a call. oh ya octane boost is not a viable option.

[81Rmachine]

I wanted to jet my wheeler to run on E85, but synthetic oils don't mix with alcohol. After runnin synthetic I sure as hell aint goin back. I've heard that HEET in a yellow bottle works as an octane booster since it's pure methanol, but I can't use it with synthetic. Has anyone ever run or heard of using HEET as an octane booster?

[tbirdscott]

Octane boosters are mostly toluene and as stated will only give you fractions of an octane point. They are a waste of money. Snake oil.


Scott

[The Goat]

any old guys in here used to drop moth balls in their gas tank back in the day?

[KLT110]

i havent run stp or lucas octane booster but i have run Gumout
when i got my 110 it was sitting outside for 5-10 yrs so i cleaned the carb and i had to put gas into the cylinder via the spark plug hole and it fired right up i probably went thru 2 or 3 tanks went out and bought Gumout octane booster in the red bottle and concentrated carb cleaner that u put in the gas
and i say i did feel a diffrence after about half a tank
when i would stop in first i could tap the throttle and it would jump more than it did when i didnt run octane booster im guessin the carb cleaner wouldnt have much to do with it besides clean the carb

[Mosh]

Evand,Down here the closest place I have for fuel rates their premium at 92 octane.I could here slight noise when my bikes were run hard.Sunoco 94 never gave me issues.

Do you have a local dirttrack oval for car racing?
Most of the time,you can buy a 5 gallon jug of 110 at tracks.Then mix it 50/50.
2.5 gallons of 110 to 2.5 gallons of 93,than add your 2 stroke oil.That will be fine.
If all you have is 93,then get some fresh fuel and fill the Z tank about 1/2 way and ride it.If it knocks on acceleration or decel,you will have to bump up.You may be ok with 93,but the 93 around here sucks.I severely question I am getting what I pay for.
Fortunaetly,I have a Sunoco 10 minutes away,and 110 Citgo 10 minutes away,so it was easy for me to get the fuel I need.
DO NOT run any off the shelf octane booster for cars.I heard it damages reeds,and crank seals.
If booster is your only option,then I would get some designed for a 2 stroke from your local shop.
The only other option you have if it pings on 93,is remove the head,and send the dome to Sprock OR Ronnie and have it recut to handle 93.
Try the 93 and see what it does.IF you hear any noise,shut it down and get Higher octane fuel.

[OldSchoolin86]

^ thats like saying one size smaller jet wont make a difference... theres a fine line when it comes to detonation
There's also a fine line when conditions change and there is no way that you can depend on your engine to be on that line all the time and not need anything more.

[lndy650]

true so why give it less???

[OldSchoolin86]

true so why give it less???You'd have to ask him, I suggested blending for 100 octane.

[evand]

Hmm. well i guess i will pass on the booster. i got some fresh 93 and some royal purple oil. Im going out to fire her up in a few.


ill let you know how it goes....


thanks guys
evan

[lndy650]

well being sponsored by Klotz instead of using the booster i think i will just by a whole drum of race fuel

[evand]

well i just fired her up, and man does it sound mean! but man does it KNOCK. only ran it for 10 secs sitting in my shed (no front tire) put my head near the motor and i can hear it. to be honest i dont rlly kno if its spark knock, could just be engine noise, but im going to get some race gas and mix it 50/50 if i still hear the same noise then i guess its just engine noise....:beer

[tag220]

I run 10 oz of toluene to one gallon of gas in my kdx works very well ran this all last year with no problem. Toluene is easy to find and about $14 per gal I have run this bike with out it you can feel the differance and the bike is allot more responsive. Do a search on this as a booster their is alot of info on it.

[evand]

Hmmm i just read a hole page on it, and it seams like it would work very well.

Do you run this with synthetic oils in your kdx?

i went to the sunoco that sells race fuel, and they dont get it untill aprill, and its 9.50 a gallon:rolleyes: then i went to the local shop and he cant get VP untill mid april and it was 12.50 a gallon LAST YEAR!! so i dont even want to know the price now. And the sunoco i went to only sells 93. i thought sunoco had 94?

any one else know about this toluene?

any one use the klotz hitrate?

[tbirdscott]

when i would stop in first i could tap the throttle and it would jump more than it did when i didnt run octane booster im guessin the carb cleaner wouldnt have much to do with it besides clean the carb

WRONG higher octane in an engine that isnt made to run it will give you less power as it burns slower than low octane fuel. Either the carb cleaner got deposits out of the carb you missed and carbon off the valves/piston or your mind is playing tricks on you.

Scott

[lndy650]

high octane dosent give you more power but an engine ment to run on high octane will make more power with high ocatane than with 93 and have much better throttle response

[evand]

i was under the same impresion, a motor with low comp, dosnt need/wont bennifit from better fuel.... like running super in a saturn, just a waste of cash.

any one use toluene? or the klotz octanebooster or klots hitrate?

[tag220]

I run amsoil dominator 50-1. My bike has had the head cut and squish band changed and I can still run pump gas. I have the bike jetted for toluene the only real change i found in jetting was my air screw. With out toluene my bike will load up with toluene my wife has ridden for hours never to get out of third gear with no problem.I will not mix a can of gas with out toluene xylene or xylol they all work the same.

[evand]

were are you gettin this stuff and how much are you mixing pergallon.

i can get "good" 93 but that the best stuff around here other then race gas.

my bike has sprock head with the lowest comp. dome. I dont think it should need much more then 93-94:beer

[tag220]

I use Sherwin Williams, I run 8-10 0z per gal from what I have read if you stay below 10% mix you stay out of danger of washing your cylinder if you go above 10% you need to run some K-1 for lube. My motor only needs about 96 oct to run best any thing over this is a waste and makes more heat.

[tbirdscott]

You can get toluene or xylene (didnt know it worked the same) at most any hardware store, walmart may even carry it in the pain section.


Scott

[evand]

man it sounds kinda funny. putting stuff from the wal-mart paint department in my z lol.

but i did some reading on it, and a few guys here seem to like it, i guess i will give it a try.

thanks
Evan

[cr480r]

well i just fired her up, and man does it sound mean! but man does it KNOCK. only ran it for 10 secs sitting in my shed (no front tire) put my head near the motor and i can hear it. to be honest i dont rlly kno if its spark knock, could just be engine noise, but im going to get some race gas and mix it 50/50 if i still hear the same noise then i guess its just engine noise....:beer

sounds like the piston rattling to me... you should let it warm up a bit... i highly doubt that its knocking with no load because of lack of octane... a rechambered head may be a good investment for ya though... it sucks to buy expensive fuel for a bike that ALMOST runs on pump fuel... I run 110 and it sucks when I'm short on cash and only wanna mix a small batch of fuel... I hate watching $40 worth of fuel go bad...

[evand]

i let it run for a bout a min. and was still making the same noise? idk iv never owned a bike that had more then stock comp. so i dont know what "knocking" sounds like in a 2 stroke. and i didnt want to keep runing it if its knocking.

the motor has a sprock head so i rlly dont want to have to have the dome cut.

thanks guys:beer
Evan

[OldSchoolin86]

Evan, can you get us a clip of what it sounds like?

[lndy650]

i let it run for a bout a min. and was still making the same noise? idk iv never owned a bike that had more then stock comp. so i dont know what "knocking" sounds like in a 2 stroke. and i didnt want to keep runing it if its knocking.

the motor has a sprock head so i rlly dont want to have to have the dome cut.

thanks guys:beer
Evan

it most likely wont do it unless its under load like cr480r said.
it sounds like whacking a piece of metal with a ball peen hammer really fast its a very destinct sound and sounds nothing like engine noise you will know if its detonating

[evand]

i can get a crappy clip with my dig. cam.

it sounds like someon is tapping the cylinder lightly. and when you shut it down it makes the same noise a few times untill the motor slows.

i will go get a clip of it now....

[evand]

heres a clip, you can kinda hear the noise at about 6 secs. in if you listen close.

http://s62.photobucket.com/albums/h83/moparneck273/?action=view&current=000_0226.flv

[Bryan Raffa]

I mix Vp 110 with 94oct,, 50/50

remember.. there a non counter balancer motor..

First thing you need too do... is do a compression check!!!!!!!!!!!!! and stop all this guessing..:p

[evand]

i dont think i could get a CR tester in there if i tried. lol

what cc dome are you runing in your z bryan i have the biggest one. i wouldnt think it should knock, it didnt know with ronies head on reag, gas.

the motor has a fresh top-end and the sprock head im guesing it shold be round 160-170 PSI?

[Bryan Raffa]

I have all 3 domes and ran them all.. the 20cc dome in my bike right now ,,I run strait VP110 ,,un cut.. the 22cc with the 50/50 94/110 and the 24cc on pump gas ..thats on my bike with my mods..Im shure I could run the 22cc on strait 94.

the head ronnie cut..depends what he cut it at? does he remember?

[evand]

i dont think he told me what he cut it at, just sent me a head, and said listen for knocking, i think it was just his "basic" head work? but i ran it on reg, and it ran fine.

if your runing pump gas with the 22cc and its fine, maybe its just motor noise? i dout it has anything to do with it but, its mixed rich as hell rite now, like 32.1 i usually mix my bikes at 50.1...

[Bryan Raffa]

what did you do too the motor? rebuild the whole thing? crank/ rod-top end?

there a little noisey when there TIGHT ..run the best gas you can get
I run mine at 50:1 with klots or blendzall


let it idle and loosen up ..take it for a putt.. does that noise clear up above a idle?

[evand]

the motor is fully rebuilt. bought it from mosh.

it semms to lessen the higher in the RPMS?

i cant take it out yet, still waiting of the new front tire to get here.

sry bout all the dumb ?'s Im just paraniod about this thing now, i have to much tied up in it to not be lol:beer

thanks guys
Evan

[Bryan Raffa]

hey I dont blame ya .. I have blown up more motors than any one I think..

you need one like this with a flexible hose too get in there.. I would defiantly check it! before you run it mutch more..;) and dont forget too hold the throttle wide open when testing it!!!! kick it till the guage stops climbing

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MATCO-AUTOMOTIVE-COMPRESSION-GAUGE-TOOL_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ43989QQihZ005QQite mZ150229189713QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

[Mosh]

Evand,I think you are just hearing the normal Z noise.
I rode that bike 4 weeks before it went out to you.It ran great.
I ran that on 94 and sometimes I mixed my Bigbore gas in it too.That runs on Striaght 110.
You know what to do.
Like I told you.
I will stand behind that engine 100%.
If anything goes wrong in the time I alloted to you,I will give you all your money back,or fix it.

[tecat-z]

The chances of it detonating at such low rpm's, with no load on it and no advance in the ignition yet, it very very low. If this was happening at 3/4 throttle, pinned and 90 out i'd say maybe detonation. I think i hear it a bit at very low rpm's. I've heard clutch baskets rattle at very low r's, from bushings, bearings, or even from the rivets that hold it together become worn and allow the basket to float a bit on the gear. Ant this is always most detectable at very low rpm when the engine is most out of balance, and running sort of erratic. But there are many things that can make mechanical noise, and without being there or hearing it first hand we can only speculate from experience. But i'd rule out fuel being the cause at those low rpm's.

[Bryan Raffa]

I agree ed..rule out the compression and go from there

[steven 250sx]

sorry to hijack but are the sprock heads really complicated i would like to purchase one but don't know anything about them and i did try searching info on it. PM me plz with info so i don't add more to the thread

thxs steven

p.s. sorry evand

[evand]

well i talked to mosh, and we kinda came to the conclusion (sp? lol) that its just typical z noise, When i get my front tire in this week ill take her out for a blast and see if i can hear any spark knock....


i have a CR tester like the link you posted raffa, but it dosnt have the nice changable end and the fitting on the end is to small:rolleyes: i think i may buy that one you posted:beer


thanks guys
Evan

O and no worry man, the sprock heads look to be very simple, and VERY nicely built. talk to mosh and raffa for more details since i just got this head/motor from mosh.

[OldSchoolin86]

Evan, sounds like a Z to me. Is the idle set too low? Almost sounds like it was just starting to lug over too slow before you hit the throttle again. Get a higher octane mix ready and enjoy. Do you have any airports near you? The small town airports are good for getting 100 octane fuel from.

[evand]

yeah it started to die out on me a bit in the vid, it was still kinda cold, once warm she pures like a kitten:w00t:

Thats exactly what i plan on oldschool, get her out and about, take her to local riding spot with about half a tank of pump gas and a few gallons of good stuff and see if it knocks, if no then all is well and im just dumb and paraniod, if she knocks, dump a few gallons of 100 in there and call it a day.:beer

[McDerry]

10% mix of Rubbing alcohol with 92 octane puts you at 94.5 octane


If your gonna mix fuels, you might aswell do it cheaper.

Common stuff int he painting section of your local hardware store is the common ingredients in octane boosters but it more concentrated forms. The more common of which is acetone which in pure form (the $3 1 gallon jug at homecheapo) is 150 octane.

The most common setup you see in the 12 once bottles is toulene with some mineral spirits as a cleaning agent and some atf to lubricate and prevent corrosion.


Mind you most octane ratings at the pumps are the average of the research octane (RON) and the motor octane (MON) hence the R+M/2 equation on the pumps


If your not to environmentally friendly the good old lead additive for non highway engines will boost the octane quite well. 85 octane becomes 100 octane.


FORMULA 1
Toulene
R+M/2...114
Cost...$2.50/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...94.2 Octane
20%...96.4 Octane
30%...98.6 Octane
Notes: Common ingredient in Octane Boosters in a can. 12-16 ounces will only raise octane 2-3 *points*, I.e. from 92 to 92.3. Often costs $3-5 for 12-16 ounces, when it can be purchased for less than $3/gal at chemical supply houses or paint stores.

FORMULA 2
Xylene
R+M/2...117
Cost...$2.75/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...94.5 Octane
20%...97.0 Octane
30%...99.5 Octane
Notes: Similar to Toulene. 12-16 ounces will only raise octane 2-3 *points*, I.e. from 92 to 92.3. Usually mixed with Toulene and advertised as *race formula*.

FORMULA 3
Methyl-tertiary-butyl-ether (MTBE)
R+M/2...118
Cost...$3.50/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...94.6 Octane
20%...97.2 Octane
30%...99.8 Octane
Notes: Oxygenate. Very common in octane booster products. Has lower BTU content than toulene or xylene, but oxygenate effect makes the gasoline burn better and produce more energy.

FORMULA 4
Methanol or Ethanol
R+M/2...101
Cost...$0.60 - $1.75/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...94.3 Octane (Methanol)
10%...94.7 Octane (Ethanol)
20%...Not Recommended
Notes: Methanol is wood alcohol. Ethanol is grain alcohol and found in Gasohol in 10% ratios. Both alcohols are mildly corrosive and will eat gas tank linings, rubber and aluminum if used in excessive ratios. Main ingredient in "Gas Dryers", combines with water.

FORMULA 5
Isopropyl Alcohol and Tertiary Butyl Alcohol
R+M/2...101
Cost...$0.60-$1.50/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...94.5 Octane
20%...Not Recommended
30%...Not Recommended
Notes: Similar to Methanol/Ethanol. Isopropyl Alcohol is simply rubbing alcohol.

Lot more info here (http://www.offroaders.com/tech/octane.htm).