More 450R parts on an ATC discussion THREAD..... **SWINGARM UPDATE**

[Dirtcrasher]

Were all tired of paying huge money for 20yo+ parts and even if you get them, the seals are discontinued or a bracket etc etc. So it seems that we are trying to adapt newer model parts to our machines which is a GREAT idea!! Were gonna have to continue to band together and talk about what works and how easy it can be adapted to an ATC.

Anyhow, I thought I'd mention that the 450R caliper is 78$ brand new and complete, how cheap is that :w00t:

I did note one thing though, it's a single piston!! :wondering Why did the lighter 250R run a dual piston when a 450R monster runs a single??

Only thing I can imagine is it is one huge piston or the 4 stroke decompression comes into play. I have a few 250R calipers as I always thought they were superior, but I may just buy a brand new TRX 450R caliper to make life nice and easy........

I'm gonna try and measure up my 350X swinger today and see what the width difference from a 450R is within the swinger bolt area.

[badasskfx]

dc it may have a bigger piston in the master to compensate for the single piston caliper. not sure but you may end up needing the master as well. maybe they work well togather but not mixed up.

[84honda200s]

ok i know this aint a 450R parts but ....a front dual piston caliper off a cr125 will go on the back of a 200x. all i had to do was put different caliper mounts on the swing arm. it works pretty good to ma i add.

[DeePa]

DC, i have a 450r master brand new. brapp knows how to make an adapter to make it work on a 350x frame.

[brapp]

yeah man i just make my own bracket for the 450 master to use on the 350 frame since the complete master is not much more than the rebuild kit trough honda for a 350x one. and the stock 350 and 250r masters actualy work the 450r mcaliper fine. thier rebuild kits mos tof the hondas have the same size pistons i n ther master cylinders front and rears for most models.

[Dammit!]

Anybody know of a rear master off a newer bike (quad, dirtbike, whatever) that works on a 250R and/or 350x with absolutely zero mods?

I like bolt on stuff. :D

[Dirtcrasher]

One thing I'm trying to talk about is that possibly we ought to try the 450R caliper on our machines, with or without the 450R swinger.

I'm gonna try to use the entire 06 450R rear end on my 86 350X.

I have a nice frame coming this week I can expirement on......

[Dirtcrasher]

SWINGARM

So, today I took a brief look at the 450R versus a 350X swingarm.

I'm not sure who got one on there 350X, but it sure doesn't look to be a mod for the average person. Regardless of how much you take off of the 2 sides where the dust caps sit, you would have to mill or grind all the way down into the swingarm side rails in order for it to fit in the 350X swingarm bolt area in the frame.

The rough outside dimension of the 350X swinger with the dust seal caps removed was 8.375 and the 450R was 9.125. Thats a difference of .750 or .375 per side. Thats quite a bit..... I'm not sure what the width of a 250R swinger is, but it must be a bit wider than the 350X swinger - Could someone measure their 250R swinger please??

Again, this was a quick thing but it didn't make me happy. However, if the swingarm supports in the 350X were moved outwards, it could work. It is basically a plate with a hole drilled in it for the swingarm bolt and it contours to the 350X frame rail where it is welded. I need to take a much longer look at it.

Just don't go buying up all the 450R swingarms yet 350X owners.......

When I get a chance, I'm gonna measure and half arse blueprint every friggin axle, carrier and swinger I have so when can see whats possible.

The 450R axle sure looked with a quick measurement to be the exact same outside diameter in the bearing area as the 350X. Possibly just a couple of spacer and we could run a 450R axle..... Again, I have to look into allot better but I'm tired of dicken around, We need some better concrete information rather than "MAYBE". I'll work on it on my end.

Enough of us have parts kicken around that we need to stop guessing and waiting untill 2020 to figure out how many cheaper and available parts from other models work without compromising HONDA technology.

[InPiEcEs]

My stock 250R swinger, empty in the front is 8.5". My caliper didn't go that big, so I used a small square to measure, but it was nearly dead-on 8.5".

[Jason Hall]

I have a 450r swingarm on my 350x with a crf450 engine. I took the outer dust caps off, then milled the step for the dust seal completly off. Then pressed the needle bearings towards the center of the swingarm. I ordered 2 more seals, like the ones on the Inside of the pivot section of the 450r swinger. I put those on the outside to protect the needle bearings from dirt and to keep the grease In. I bored the outside of the swingarm to accept the stock 450r thruss bushing, and made some hardened steel washers to fit between the 350x frame & the 450r thruss washers. I bored the holes for the thruss washers just deep enough so they (thruss washer) would stick out about .025. What ever washers you make for the outside, they must float over the Inner tube that pinches the swingarm Inbetween the frame. The washer & stock thruss bushing are just there for side load, and must be machined to just the right clearance. I have rode the HELL out of mine for over 1 year with great results.

[The Goat]

bump for update

[SYKO]

well I put my 450R on my 250R in about 30 mins.... I used the poly bushings for the 250R swinger... to make fit to the atc after installed both poly bushings on the inside had to be grinded down to about 3/16th while on the outside the outer portion of the 450R swinger was cust off to the swinger.. I put on the outer bushings and walla! IZE BE DUN BOSS! fit great! the poly bushings are the bomb diggidy!

[MyMistress86R]

Anybody know of a rear master off a newer bike (quad, dirtbike, whatever) that works on a 250R and/or 350x with absolutely zero mods?

I like bolt on stuff. :D

I believe the Suzuki Z400 rear master bolts directly on to the water pumper 250r. 3leggeddog can confirm/deny, but I'm pretty sure he ran this.

[fire1]

well I put my 450R on my 250R in about 30 mins.... I used the poly bushings for the 250R swinger... to make fit to the atc after installed both poly bushings on the inside had to be grinded down to about 3/16th while on the outside the outer portion of the 450R swinger was cust off to the swinger.. I put on the outer bushings and walla! IZE BE DUN BOSS! fit great! the poly bushings are the bomb diggidy!

do you have any pictures of this setup and did anyone try the 450r caliper on the 250r

[SYKO]

do you have any pictures of this setup and did anyone try the 450r caliper on the 250r


look in this thread


http://www.3wheelerworldforums.com/showthread.php?t=75555&page=2

I will be taking it all down again for the finishing of my whole trike here shortly, I will take more pics of the swinger mounted in with the bushings and also I had to grind down the front chain skid to clear the sproket.

[fire1]

do you know if the 250r sprocket will bolt to the 450r axle just bought 250r sprocket and was hoping not to have to buy another thanks for info hope you dont mind if i have a few more questions.

[SYKO]

yes it will thats what is on mine 15/28

[willrideanythin]

Will a 350X swing bolt on and line up with any dirt bike swingers? DB swingers seem narrower by nature. Might be cool to swap it the other way too. Just thinking out loud.

[fire1]

heres my 450r swing arm mounted in my new build 250r using all 450r brake system ,450r front master also i used 450r shifter its aluminum and easy to polish.

[honda250sx]

How about some more pics of that FIRE????

I like what I see.

[fire1]

How about some more pics of that FIRE????

I like what I see.


here you go
http://s399.photobucket.com/albums/pp71/fire1man2008/

[bigpimpin]

heres my 450r swing arm mounted in my new build 250r using all 450r brake system ,450r front master also i used 450r shifter its aluminum and easy to polish.

what did you do to have to get it to work?

[tecat-z]

Very nice build fire1. You have a beautiful R with some very nice custom additions. Looks like you used the oem 250R shock. I've heard this is difficult for some reason? Can you elaborate on the rear end conversion. I'm sure there are many people that would love the late model 450R rear. And a step by step process if possible.

[Tri-Z Pilot]

Someone used a yfz450 front caliper on the back of their 250r, I wanna say it was Deepa, but am not quite sure, I will try searching it.

[SWIGIN]

i had a post on the yz400-450 front caliper swap....as far as i know my brother came up with this swap.

at least he is where i first heard of it....posted on 3 07

http://www.3wheelerworldforums.com/showthread.php?t=65919

[Tri-Z Pilot]

i had a post on the yz400-450 front caliper swap....as far as i know my brother came up with this swap.

at least he is where i first heard of it....posted on 3 07

http://www.3wheelerworldforums.com/showthread.php?t=65919

Thanks Swigin, that's exactly what I was talking about, sorry about givin the credit to someone else, my brain was just a little fuzzy:wondering

[Mrs.Mosh]

Very nice build fire1. You have a beautiful R with some very nice custom additions. Looks like you used the oem 250R shock. I've heard this is difficult for some reason? Can you elaborate on the rear end conversion. I'm sure there are many people that would love the late model 450R rear. And a step by step process if possible.


Mosh is talking to another member about making all the required spacers and bushings need to drop the 450R swinger directly to a watercooled R trike or quad.
This way all you have to do is get the swinger and 450 linkage and buy a affordable bushing and spacer kit and bolt it on.
I am pretty sure he will post it up once it is done.
The 450 stock swingarms are selling so cheap it is rediculous.

[fire1]

theres no spacers or bushing required it drops right in width wise and all you have to do is cut the inside bushing on each side for the r rear motor mount to fit took all of 10 min this is really easy.i used a durablue adjustable dog bone link to get correct ride height.i bought the hole rear setup off ebay bearing carrier ,axle ,rear brakes complete,axle nuts ,wheel hubs and sprocket with bolts for 210.00.i used the stock shock because i had just had it rebuilt and the 450r shock is to stiff and you can not use stock air box.i get full travel using the adjustable dog bone link.

ALSO STOCK SWING BOLT WORKS

[honda250sx]

beautiful build. great job Fire. Thanks for sharing!

[Mosh]

Thanks for the info.
From what I have been told, if you use the 450r linkage with the R shock, The bolts or bushings were a little sloppy and did not fit correct. Something about the bolt hole sizing form the R shock and 450 Linkage being different? Just what I was told. Or something about the shock bolt hitting the swinger before you get full travel?
Also, the deal I am doing is using the 250R axle and brakes and rotor,and that requires a bushing to make the caliper bracket fit correctly, if you want to save money and run your old R axle and brakes, instead of buying the hole rear end off a 450r.

The way I am doing it I was just trying to use the 450R swinger and linkage,and existing R parts.

My trial will be using a 2004 450R swinger on a 86 TRX to shorten it up to near the 88-89 length. Maybe the 2004 450R linkage is different requiring some modified spacers???

I have seen just the 450R swinger and linkage go for around 30 bucks on ebay plus shiping.
Add the projected 30 bucks for the bushing kit to make it work and the whole deal would only cost 60-75 bucks. Using the exisiting R parts.

[fire1]

Thanks for the info.
From what I have been told, if you use the 450r linkage with the R shock, The bolts or bushings were a little sloppy and did not fit correct. Something about the bolt hole sizing form the R shock and 450 Linkage being different? Just what I was told. Or something about the shock bolt hitting the swinger before you get full travel?
Also, the deal I am doing is using the 250R axle and brakes and rotor,and that requires a bushing to make the caliper bracket fit correctly, if you want to save money and run your old R axle and brakes, instead of buying the hole rear end off a 450r.

The way I am doing it I was just trying to use the 450R swinger and linkage,and existing R parts.

My trial will be using a 2004 450R swinger on a 86 TRX to shorten it up to near the 88-89 length. Maybe the 2004 450R linkage is different requiring some modified spacers???

I have seen just the 450R swinger and linkage go for around 30 bucks on ebay plus shiping.
Add the projected 30 bucks for the bushing kit to make it work and the whole deal would only cost 60-75 bucks. Using the exisiting R parts.



Thats the reason i used all 250 r shock linkage and bolts the adjustable link was for the 250r the only bolt issue i had (see pic)was the rear shock linkage bolt on the 450r is smaller than the 250r so i took allen head bolt for 250r and cut head down to fit and drilled the other side of swing arm bracket for shock out.i think once you get your hands on one you will see its not difficult at all.i know what you mean about trying to save money but i got the rear brake system complete for 60.00 and that was my goal to get new style parts on it.The only part i had to get from the honda shop was the 37mm clip that slides on axle for the large axle nut to tighten against. As far as the 250r shock linkage bolt hitting the swinger ive been told this also but i can stand on grab and bounce up and down and get full travel with nothing coming close to hitting.



also remmber the 04-05 450r swingarm is about inch shorter than stock 250r and 06 -07 is about same length i have more pics and can take more from different angles if you need

[bigpimpin]

will all the brakes, axle and carrier from the 250r bolt on? or do you need the axle and carrier from the 450r?

[SYKO]

you need all the 450R components for it to work

[200x newby]

you need all the 450R components for it to work

You sure? Not saying your wrong but when I put the 450r rear setup on my 86 250r all I used was the 450r swinger shock and linkage. The carrier, axle, and brake assembly is all 86 250r stuff.

[SYKO]

well my 250R carrier didnt even get close to fitting inside the 450R swinger so something there is wrong.

[200x newby]

was yours an 85 carrier?

[SYKO]

YEA it was a 85

[The big 3]

you need all the 450R components for it to work

not true dude. the 250r components work ive seen it done and tested. you can use a 450r swinger with all 250r parts no probs. there are quite a few threads already on this on various forums.

i think a spacer is needed when using the 86 carrier from memory..

[Jason Hall]

I will have a few convertion kits for this on Wednesday. I have been working on the first one for a member here. It will be SWEET, and easy to Install :w00t:

[SYKO]

I have a 400ex shock with the 250R linkage and a adjustable linc and the suspension action and feel is awesome.

[Jason Hall]

Mosh, Yes the 250R shock Is alot more plush than the 450R shock.

[1BFC]

So, is this 450R rear end conversion for the 250R been fully ironed out now? There's more than 1 thread on this topic and the other one ended with some doubts about just how "bolt on" the different year 450R parts are.

Basically, what year parts and what parts are needed to have the least amount of fab work? It appears, after reading it in this thread, that if you use 06-07 450R parts for everything minus the shock it's an easy bolt on with a minor shave of the inner bushing at the engine mounts.

Is this correct?

[Saul]

I like the 'idea' of this thread. I've got a question to ask - does anyone know of a rear shock from a 'modern' machine that will bolt right into a 1982 250R?

raptor? 300 or 400ex?

Anyone know?

[The Goat]

So, is this 450R rear end conversion for the 250R been fully ironed out now? There's more than 1 thread on this topic and the other one ended with some doubts about just how "bolt on" the different year 450R parts are.

Basically, what year parts and what parts are needed to have the least amount of fab work? It appears, after reading it in this thread, that if you use 06-07 450R parts for everything minus the shock it's an easy bolt on with a minor shave of the inner bushing at the engine mounts.

Is this correct?


I was under the impression there aren't major changes in the rear of the 450r between years...and it's a little more work than a little shaving.

[devilman]

any new info on this? i am looking into doing this setup. is there a big difference in the 08 swingarm from the 06/07?

[The Goat]

length...that's all I believe.

It's not just bolt up...and it won't be. especially if you wannt keep proper geometry

[Aka_am]

According to this post here :
http://forums.atvconnection.com/atc-3-wheelers/10796-200x-350x-hybrid.html

86-87 200x can also accept a 450r swinger.

[Derrick Adams]

Jason Hall and myself are in the R&D stages of making this swap a bolt on deal. However, to do it correctly there are alot of obsticals to over come. 90% sure we have all the issues solved, just have to get time to move to initial fabrication and manufacturing.

[Escanabajosh]

any new info on the swap? how about the kit mentioned above? anyone else do this swap yet?

will a 300ex swinger bolt right up to a 350x?
came across this thread looking for info on a swinger swap for a 85 350x, everything from a 450 would be nice!