Does using motorcycle/atv specific oil actually make that big of a difference?

[VenomRS4]

Im about to do an oil change on my 350X and Quadrunner and I have a case of valvoline 10w30 synthetic so I figured I would use that. Will I cause any problems in the long run if i dont use a motorcycle/atv specific oil? Maybe with the clutch? I have heard a lot people say that is ok....but ive also heard people say that its not...

What do you guys think?

[Chillyboarder]

I changed my oil recently for my 400EX and put 10w40 motorcycle oil in it for the winter, was told not to go too much tinner as they're meant for high speeds. I was also told that most synthetics will screw up the clutch, you have to get it without a certain thing in it...

[RedRider_AK]

You know, I will never understand some stuff. My Big Bear had ATV-specific oil in it up until 2 days ago, and it wouldn't idle, smoked like hell, etc. I changed the oil, dumped in some generic Valvoline 5w40, and lo and behold, it idles like a dream, runs great, doesn't smoke or stall, and overall feels just like a new machine.

:eek:

[Louis Mielke]

It was once explained to me that the sheering actions of the gears in a motorcycle transmission can actually break down the molecules of normal automotive oil much faster and that motorcycle oil was formulated with that in mind so it lasts longer. The clutch plates are also something to keep in mind.

Moral of the story, i was also told by a profesional cycle mechanic that automotive oil is fine but should be changed more frequently than a specifically formulated oil

And as Paul Harvey would say, that's the rest of the story.

[tecat-z]

When i was a kid, all i used was 10-40 engine oil in all of my 2 stroke mx bikes trannies, and also in my indestructable 83 110. But that was then, and now i do use motorcycle specific oil in all of my machines. I never had a problem back in the day, but the machines were also alot newer than they are now. Again we're talking back from 86ish to 91ish. I don't own any of those bikes anymore, but never had any oil related problems in any of them. And i had lots. Now, i like to use specific oils, along with strick maintenance.

[TeamGeek6]

1.) Being an engineer, I can tell you that the engineers that made the engine in the first place would have specified special oil if needed. That makes design too much of a hassle, so they dont.

2.) Opinions dont matter, download the specs from the oil manufacturer and compare them, viscosity and temperature data.

3.) Mechanics, "professional" or not are not trained to know the difference. Mechanics change parts, they know nothing about oil chemistry.

Yes, it makes a big difference, in PROFIT for whoever sells the oil!

Synthetics may be bad to use in older engines. Synthetic oils are a blend of two components, and one will attack rubber seals. Synthetics can cause loss of seal life. Just depends on the ratios.

OPen the manual, read what it says and put it in.

[Mosh]

1.) Being an engineer, I can tell you that the engineers that made the engine in the first place would have specified special oil if needed. That makes design too much of a hassle, so they dont.



3.) Mechanics, "professional" or not are not trained to know the difference. Mechanics change parts, they know nothing about oil chemistry.

Maybe I read too much into your comments,and if that is the case,I appologize for what I am about to say.

Dude I gotta tell you,I dont know if you do not think before you post or what.
But I am quite frankly, sick and tired of your know it all,degrading remarks that seem to blast people or products for no reason.

I have been professionally turning wrenches for 17 years.
and no,I am not perfect and have made mistakes.
Although I am no a chemical engineer that has vastly studied lubrication properties of oils,I can tell you I am anything but a parts changer as you state.

The reality of your post is clear.And I will say this one time.
You "engineers" are the scurge of the Earth as far as most Mechanics are concerned.
You damn people cant build anything right the first time,and we have to spend hours on new model cars, un-engineering and improving your foul ups.
Then you guys have the nerve to call us on the factory techline,and ask us how we fixed your problem.

Get real!


As far as this post,I do agree that any decnet brand oil will be fine for most machines.I have run regular oil in my bikes for years with no adverse effects.That Teamgeek,I will agree with you on.

[SWIGIN]

i agree with moshman

to say a mechanic who sees what the engineers mess up all day long knows nothing?

that is a assish thing to say....and to say to only run what oil the engeneer says to run is just stupid.

oil or all lubes have come a long way in 20 years.....your living in a dream world were your the pressident

[Dirtcrasher]

Maybe I read too much into your comments,and if that is the case,I appologize for what I am about to say.

Dude I gotta tell you,I dont know if you do not think before you post or what.
But I am quite frankly, sick and tired of your know it all,degrading remarks that seem to blast people or products for no reason.

I have been professionally turning wrenches for 17 years.
and no,I am not perfect and have made mistakes.
Although I am no a chemical engineer that has vastly studied lubrication properties of oils,I can tell you I am anything but a parts changer as you state.

The reality of your post is clear.And I will say this one time.
You "engineers" are the scurge of the Earth as far as most Mechanics are concerned.
You damn people cant build anything right the first time,and we have to spend hours on new model cars, un-engineering and improving your foul ups.
Then you guys have the nerve to call us on the factory techline,and ask us how we fixed your problem.

Get real!


As far as this post,I do agree that any decnet brand oil will be fine for most machines.I have run regular oil in my bikes for years with no adverse effects.That Teamgeek,I will agree with you on.

I'll second this motion....

Geek, you really are a PITA, very quick to say "WRONG" to anyone about anything. Then you claim to have this "magic" ignition setup but won't help anybody else with it unless they open there wallet.

Most of your thoughts are from an engineering standpoint and not from a wrench/what actually works standpoint.

Are you here to help guys out? or just need to be right and a big pain in the balls....? :welcome:

[brapp]

i will third the notion i ahve been racign and turnign wrenches for the majority of my life wether its hendign wrenches to my dad at age 3 or rebuilding my truck and atv motors. you better learn what your talkgin about or stfu your explinations are just liek your work over engineered and just need a simple answer that works nto confuse the kid mor eallhe asked was if he can us ethat perticular oil in how trike he didnt need soem scienticic explination.


but her eis my .02 cents on the situation the synthetic oil is nto reccomende dunles sit is formulated for wet clutches but other than that i have been runnign the same old 10-30 pennsoil in mos tof mu bikes for years with no major problems and i ahve really mauled the tar out fo themover the years.

[whyzee]

Engineers are like pilots, they are so smart they are actually stupid!!!

OK people, What makes wet clutches work??????
the answer??????
FRICTION!!!!!!!!!!
Any brand oil is fine you buy at your MOTORCYCLE SHOP as long as it is for wet clutches and fourstrokes. your 350X. I find the Honda oils far superior to anything else out there.

Dont even get me started on two strokes... anybody who puts regular motor oil in thier tranny is missing out on what a real clutch should feel like. Drain that shittly cheap 10w 40 crap you buy at walmart. Go to your local Honda Shop and get the RED BOTTLE gear oil.
Night and day difference guys !!! Anybody who tells you differently has never ridden the bike or 3 wheeler like it should be ridden or has never ridden one with the proper fluids.
This is coming from an Expert Motocross racer who has been through at least 15 brand new bikes, either Suzuki or Honda (couple yami's).
The Honda fluids are the best!!

[TravEX]

I will 4th the notion! Don't out-think the room Geek! I'm gonna try the ignore feature on him, he'll be the first one I've ever done that to. James9r9r and trr and Mike are difficult to deal with, but DAMN Geek!

I will agree with the room too. All the machines in my sig have off the shelf Valvoline in them (5W30 to 10W40), no problems. I change em all twice a year.

[300rman]

ok, let me tell you what.
put a synthetic oil with friction modifiers in your tranny case and your going to have clutch problems ALL DAY LONG. as WHYZEE stated...clutches operate on FRICTION, put something that is designed to cut friction more than a normal oil (say, AMSOIL crankcase oil) and your clutch will never hook up.

[deathman53]

most regular motor oil contains moly which can and will make your clutch slip, and thus wears the fibers quickly. That is the reason to use motorcyle stuff, it doesn't contain moly(well, most of it, if it does it is cleary marked). I use only synthetic oils, except in my 200x, for some reason it makes the clutch slip where in the other bikes it doesn't. For tranny oil, get the honda stuff in the red bottle or bel-ray gear saver. For motor oil(4 strokes) I like to use klotz 15/50 or 10/40, every bike expect the 200x. 2 stroke oil is a whole another aguement, but whatever you do, don't use any kind of chainsaw, weedwacker or agriculutural 2 stroke oil.

[whyzee]

ok, let me tell you what.
put a synthetic oil with friction modifiers in your tranny case and your going to have clutch problems ALL DAY LONG. as WHYZEE stated...clutches operate on FRICTION, put something that is designed to cut friction more than a normal oil (say, AMSOIL crankcase oil) and your clutch will never hook up.

300rman gets it! Pony up the extra money, go to your MOTORCYCLE SHOP, NOT WAL- MART, and get the proper fluids.
When racing the new 4 stroke motocross bikes, we change the crankcase oil , and tranny oil ,which are now separate, every 3rd fill up , (About 3 hours) You would not believe how dirty the fluids are, And that is running VP U4 race gas @ $11 a gallon.
I am not saying to go to these extremes, but for gods sake put the right oil in the bike and change it often!

[overdressed1]

What's the difference between an engineer and GOD ?

GOD dosen't think he's an engineer. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[whyzee]

What's the difference between an engineer and GOD ?

GOD dosen't think he's an engineer. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

LMFAO!!!!!! So true!!!!!!!

[ccdhowell]

I usually run moto specific oil in my ATVs, but recently I've been reading over at www.bobistheoilguy.com; now I use Rotella T 15w40 diesel oil. Modern diesel oils are near perfect for ATVs. They have more cleaners and more additives to protect the bearings in boundary lubrication situations. Any of the diesel oils will work great and are cheap and available almost anywhere. I use Rotella T 15w40 and Valvoline 15w40. The other day I bought a 2 gallon jug of Mystic 15w40 at Tractor Supply, it's for diesel tractors and should work great, but haven't tried it yet. Off road atv specific oil will have more additives because they don't have to meet catalytic converter specs.

Good luck decifering this thread. Bottom line don't run an automotive oil with the energy saving starburst symbol and you'll be fine.

Chris

[Yamada]

I usually run moto specific oil in my ATVs, but recently I've been reading over at www.bobistheoilguy.com; now I use Rotella T 15w40 diesel oil. Modern diesel oils are near perfect for ATVs. They have more cleaners and more additives to protect the bearings in boundary lubrication situations. Any of the diesel oils will work great and are cheap and available almost anywhere.
Chris

That what I ever used in the Yamaha ytm-200 and never had a problem with the engine. The clutch just start to show some sign of wear and that after 24 years of use. Personnally I think that if you used a type of oil without problem, stick to it.

[ceaserthethird]

Best thing to do is try it , if you feel it's not grabbing well .... Drain and add a 4 stroke wet clutch oil

I change my oil every other ride and it still comes out light brown / honey color ;)

[whyzee]

Best thing to do is try it , if you feel it's not grabbing well .... Drain and add a 4 stroke wet clutch oil

I change my oil every other ride and it still comes out light brown / honey color ;)

Problem with that is your friction discs are already coated with those friction modifiers.
Drain it, get new friction discs, and run wet cluth oil, motorcycle specific. If its a two stroke Honda Red bottle tranny oil, I think its
85w90 weight. hang on, you will never feel your bike hook up so well, because your clutch is actually grabbing and not slipping with that crappy oil!!!

[i58829]

Well i can say FOR A FACT that when PaDot switched over to all synthetic fluids in the rear ends and such of their trucks one result was the seals broke down and began to leak.

The seals brake down over time and conventional oil helps keep them from leaking. The synthetic oil simply doesn't have the same components in it to prevent this. I dont know any of the details, just a real world example. So i guess if you do a rebuild and always run synthetics it wouldn't be an issue but switching from one to the other after a long period of time seems to cause more problems that its worth.

To answer your first question, i wouldn't use anything fully synthetic but i would be sure to spend the extra 2.00 a quart for specifically formulated oil from a shop. As far as 2-stroke oil goes there is a huge difference between castrol and arctic cat or yamalube(I have a sled and a 2 stroke honda). The castrol leaves more residue, smells a lot more like oil, and in general isn't as clean.

[The Goat]

we've only used 20w50 castrol (like 8 bucks for a gallon) and have NEVER had a single engine issue with any bike.

in my car I only run mobil1 extended performance oil and mobil1 filters (about 45 dollars for an oil change) then again, I change my oil every 9 to 12k...it comes out a dark brown, and nothing more.

I've always been told not to put synthetic oil into an older engine that has never had it...certain detergents or additives will kill the seals.

[Lonewolf]

Actually, the reason synthetics will leak in an older engine, or anything else, ios that the molecules in synthetics are smaller. They flow more easilly and are able to get past a loose seal. With the larger molecules of a conventional oil, you just won't notice as much because the leak remains much smaller. But then, what do I know. I'm just a dumb parts changer.... :)

[SWIGIN]

Actually, the reason synthetics will leak in an older engine, or anything else, ios that the molecules in synthetics are smaller. They flow more easilly and are able to get past a loose seal. With the larger molecules of a conventional oil, you just won't notice as much because the leak remains much smaller. But then, what do I know. I'm just a dumb parts changer.... :)



you are 100% right

[BigReds Forever]

I once ran (out of my young, inexperienced stupidity) some Valvoline oil made for high mileage vehicles in my 250es. It wasn't a synthetic but after a few rides it was clear that the clutch was no longer holding like it should. Changed oil and it didn't help. Pulled the clutch and swapped out the fibers, rinsed out the crank case and BAM! Great Clutch again. The old fiber plates looked fine but they felt slimy. Needless to say, I only run 4-stroke/wet clutch oil now. I use a lot of yamalube because the yami dealer is close by, or Ill buy a few gallons of Maxima or something from Dennis Kirk when I place an order from them.

[whyzee]

I once ran (out of my young, inexperienced stupidity) some Valvoline oil made for high mileage vehicles in my 250es. It wasn't a synthetic but after a few rides it was clear that the clutch was no longer holding like it should. Changed oil and it didn't help. Pulled the clutch and swapped out the fibers, rinsed out the crank case and BAM! Great Clutch again. The old fiber plates looked fine but they felt slimy. Needless to say, I only run 4-stroke/wet clutch oil now. I use a lot of yamalube because the yami dealer is close by, or Ill buy a few gallons of Maxima or something from Dennis Kirk when I place an order from them.

Perfect example. Thank You!

[Meat-BoX]

Your supposed to put oil in your motor? O man, all those years of College and Grad school and they never told me such a thing. I have been putting Crisco in my motor all along. No wonder why everyone who rides behind me looks like they were just jizzed upon.:crazy:
since I was 4 years old its been either 10-W 40 or 30 unless your riding in a rubber suit getting ready for the crisco wrestling match after.:beer

yOU KNOW an Engineer once told me that if you mix water with your oil it will make your ride run better and make the oil look real cool when you check the eye on the motor.
I then took it to a mechanic and got a size 12 boot in my Butt. Is there an engineer out there that can figure out how to remove that boot. The Crisco isnt working. Being a Drafter I know the complex some engineers have.

[brapp]

hey try a size 14 fron the inside to knock it loose

[Dammit!]

When I first got my R back in 1989 I used Klotz R50 in the premix AND in the tranny on the recommendation of the engine builder. After I moved to AZ I couldn't find a nearby shop that carried R50 so I switched to Maxima 80 weight motorcycle/atv tranny oil. I have occasionally used run of the mill Valvoline 10w40 in my R when something better wasn't available or like recently when I had a problem with water getting into the bottom end and I was changing it a lot. Between those three oils, I have never been able to tell the difference. Maybe with a fresh clutch it might be more noticeable (I'm actually running the original clutch minus the springs and 89 update kit). I need to replace the whole thing including the grooved up basket. After I do that I'll probably stop the occasional use of standard oil in that bike.

My 350x has Valvoline 10w40 in it. I don't think it matters much with that one. It's stock and not putting out a ton of power anyway.

[whyzee]

:lol: [QUOTE=Dammit!;597652]When I first got my R back in 1989 I used Klotz R50 in the premix AND in the tranny on the recommendation of the engine builder. After I moved to AZ I couldn't find a nearby shop that carried R50 so I switched to Maxima 80 weight motorcycle/atv tranny oil. I have occasionally used run of the mill Valvoline 10w40 in my R when something better wasn't available or like recently when I had a problem with water getting into the bottom end and I was changing it a lot. Between those three oils, I have never been able to tell the difference. Maybe with a fresh clutch it might be more noticeable (I'm actually running the original clutch minus the springs and 89 update kit). I need to replace the whole thing including the grooved up basket. After I do that I'll probably stop the occasional use of standard oil in that bike.


Dammit you are missing out on some real positve clutch feedback. If your budget allows get new friction discs, Honda oem please and the Red bottle tranny oil. Get ready to hang on because your bike will feel like it has 10 extra ponies. I am that serious about the tranny oil in two strokes. I have been racing alot of years, tried them all from my sponsers and I will still used the Honda Red tranny oil, and gave away the tranny oil I was given .lol everybody would!

[whyzee]

This is the ONLY oil you want to run in your 2 stroke transmission



Part# Size

08C35-A851M01 1 Qt.







Pro-Honda HP Trans Oil SAE 80W/85W

High-performance racing transmission oil specially formulated for all Honda CR models. Transmission gears can whip conventional oil into a froth, and intense pressure at their teeth can lead to metal-to-metal contact. HP Trans Oil offers ultra-high film strength and shear stability to minimize transmission wear, while its high thermal stability prevents foaming and premature oil breakdown. Special anti-friction additives allow smoother shifting, while minimizing drag and power loss. Anti-shear additives increase clutch life, reducing clutch slippage.



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