250r Fooler Problems!!!!

[iamschme]

well guys, me and THE GOAT were out enjoyin the 83 fooler when i encountered a problem. i was goin along pretty good - full throttle for a short distance when it made a harsh missing noise and then killed. i went to start it and when i pushed the kickstart it sounded rough like it was dragging.

i got it back to the shop, let it cool down, checked the plug, which looked normal, good brown color. it still has that rough dragging noise when i crank it. i put a new plug in just to see and tried to crank it but it didnt seem to want to start and like i said its got this grinding dragging noise as the piston goes up.

i haven't checked to make sure i was indeed getting spark but it is the dragging noise i am worried about. anybody got any ideas????

[Brockey]

Sounds like the piston is fried. Take off the head and check the walls of the cylinder and have a look at the piston.

[iamschme]

yeah, my first thought was the rings. but it could also be the piston. i was a little surprised because i've only had it for a few weeks and syko just rebuilt it not very long ago. but oh well, if its fried then thats just another project...

[TeamGeek6]

, checked the plug, which looked normal, good brown color. it still has that rough dragging noise when i crank it. ?

Brown IS NOT a good color, its so rich its fouling the spark plug.

Go take a spark plug out of any NEW car engine, are they brown? No, theyre white.

Brown is excess fuel. Excess fuel washes oil off cylinder walls and makes mongo heat.

Mongo heat overheats and destroys pistons. Which is probably whats wrong.

Leave that nice brown plug in, rebuild it and blow it up again!

[iamschme]

wow, you're kinda harsh but anyway, i was under the impression that a white plug was lean and was death for a 2 stroke. apparently i was misinformed about it being ok to run a tad rich. apparently a little rich is also death. but thanks for the post i appreciate all the info i can get.

since it was running so good when i got it a few weeks ago, i didn't adjust anything. i do have a 300 kit that i need to get ported, polished and sleeved so i'll probably do that and put it on. i'm gonna tear it all down this week so i'll post on what i find...

[RoscoW]

From all that I've read, a white plug on a two stroke WILL BE certain death. A tan to brown color is perfect from what everyone says. Get the head off and look at the cyl walls for scoring / marks, might be a broken ring? still have the sound ? might have to go deeper:(

Ross..

[dizasterzrfun69]

wow, you're kinda harsh


yea, he knows EVERYTHING though! :crazy: :lol: ( at least he thinks so)

[iamschme]

yeah, the nice brown color i spoke of is a medium brown. not black not white. definately not full of deposits. i thought rings first then maybe piston. if its worse than rings, the 300 kit will definately be the next step. i was hoping for about 6 mos of riding before i put the 300 kit on but thats just the way it goes. thanks for the response, like i said once i get the head off i can see what the damage is.

[Danold]

wow, you're kinda harsh but anyway, i was under the impression that a white plug was lean and was death for a 2 stroke. apparently i was misinformed about it being ok to run a tad rich. apparently a little rich is also death. but thanks for the post i appreciate all the info i can get.

You are absolutly correct. Every 2 stroke that Ive own that had a brown plug run perfect. To me, the problem sounds like a ring is not alligned on the piston with the small pins in the ringland but is its low on compression then it could be blown up. You need to pull the cylinder and see.

[300rman]

oh i misread your problem first time around.

yeah, it sounds like its time for a rebuild. hopefully a piston, rings, and a hone will sufice. CHECK YOUR BEARINGS though, if they seem loose, replace them now, it will prolong the life of the rest of the motor, and prevent a premature teardown.


my flywheel shear key sheared once, made it a BEAR to start, always kicked back HARD. ran great after it started though........

and yes, my plug is a nice BROWN color, which seems to be the good color according to the JETTING 101 thread. its not all deposited up, and since i got her jetted this way, havent fouled a plug!

[Somekindofjerk]

Is that an overbore airfooler? If so how much.

[Dirtcrasher]

Screw the color of the plug, tear off the topend and see whats up....

May have lost the big end bearing or the mains or just fried the piston....

Ya know what? When I was a friggen kid, I didn't even know what jetting was and none of my friends did either. We changed top ends, reeds, carburators, exhausts and never gave it a thought. All we were ever concerned with was whether or not we pre mixed the gas correctly. The piston to wall clearance is more important than anything....

Of course jetting is important, but too many people look too deep into it for the riding we do. If it's close, it's good enough. Our chit wasn't blowing up left and right so I don't see the big deal with "ooh it's tan" " oh god, it's white!" "heavens to betsy! It's black" :lol:

Last I knew, none of us were James Stewart - sorry about your knee james!!

[T3 LOPES]

I would definetly check for spark. I have had a problem similar to what you are describing. On my 85 t3 the stator came apart in the flywheel and made these same dragging noises . Just a quick check to see if thats your problem.

[Daddio]

If you haven't already taken the top-end off you can take off your exhaust pipe and look into the cylinder through the exhaust port. You can't see everything from there but it could save a little time. I would also do a compression check before I tore it down.

[hondahaulic]

Brown is excess fuel. Excess fuel washes oil off cylinder walls and makes mongo heat.

How did the oil get on the cylinder walls in the first place? It came from the fuel/oil mixture. In a 2 stroke, more fuel comes with more oil. So your saying more fuel and OIL on the cylinder walls will INCREASE heat/friction???:crazy:

oh and btw if you didnt notice, new car engines built today are just a tad bit different from our 20 year old single cylinder 2stroke engines.

sorry for the rant, but to sum it up you shouldnt have to worry about your plug being brown.

[The Goat]

you know, I missed this thread entirely, because you see, he forgot to tell the best part of the story. I got behind him on the 70, put my foot on his grab bar, and pushed him all the way to the shed. lol.

and teamgeek, if yours was properly jetted, you might find "the red devil" would spin the tires past third (which you seem to find oh so impressive) what was it you said... "big bores are for people who don't know how to jet"

[81Rmachine]

OK first of all Hondahaulic is right, more fuel makes an engine run cooler due to the increased fuel vapor in the air and reduce friction but only to an extent and then it will bog and foul plugs and running an engine too lean will burn a hole straight through your piston. Second a light brown color is exactly the color you want, the only reason cars are whiter is because they run a sustained 14.7 to 1 air to fuel ratio since they are fuel injected( but even cars are still a slight tanish brown. In a three-wheeler or any carbureted car the plugs should be brown. My brother's four wheeler (400L) ran too lean and broke a piston skirt due to lack of oil. He also had another four wheeler 250 (Trail Blazer) that ran too lean and burnt a hole in the piston and each one had a chalky white plug (indicating too lean of a mixture). One thing to check first is compression, if that's good it could possibly be the stator like T3 Lopes said, I had a dirt bike that broke the keyway and the flywheel hit the stator causing it to miss, kill, make a grinding sound, and drag as you said. Whatever it is I hope you find it and good luck. Sorry for the speech but I figured I'd give you my input.

[SYKO]

ok guys so what did you find out?

[iamschme]

i was wondering when the syko man was going to show up. i'm gonna tear it down thursday and see what i can find. i'm gonna look at the stator first like t3 lopes said and if all is well i'll tear the top end off. i'll be sure to let everyone know whats goin on with it...

[SYKO]

sorry Ive been in and out, effectivly you bought my last ride so I dont really have anything to whip on. and the new shop getting it going has taken a toll on me, I feal bad that your having problems, it was running tops man! sounds though from the scraping that it may have jumped a ring somehow and the debri is whats making it drag