thoughts of starting an ATC manufacturing co.

[triker111]

I would like to get some opinions, I have contacted many local metal,plastics, welding etc.. shops. and have discussed prices to build an atc, and calculated the cost of each one between 4500$ and 5500$ Price could vary depending on amount of material i buy. I own a body shop which i will use as the assembly point. I have 3 employees, and a few friends that will help with assembly. After doin some research we think we can build about 4-5 per month. So im wondering if this would be a good buisness venture. Or just do it for the love of atcs??

[neo19672000]

I would say start small, like suspension kits for atc70's or mods to esisting trikes. I think you could make some good capital there, then move it up, sky's the limit laws pending.

[SYKO]

you sure you want to pull your employees from the shop for this? I dont know how there paid, but when I worked as a body man on comision, I still wanted to make sure I was getting paid. Not unless of course you got a multi million dollar pro shop or something, lol, $4500-$5500 is a fair amount for something new, but what kind of motors?

[triker111]

Good question tryin to decide on 3 engine manufacturers hopefully american.

[ATC-Eric]

You should start by just trying to build one.

Then decide whether its worth it or not to go "big" time.

[RedRider_AK]

Good question tryin to decide on 3 engine manufacturers hopefully american.

Where are you finding these? You can get brand new Yamaha crate engines, from what I've seen on their site. TT-R 125 and YZ85's...

[Louis Mielke]

I don't tihnk the venture would be worth it. There isn't a market for brand new ATCs. Most of the people who will say they'd buy don't have deep enough pockets. Those who have deep enough pockets would require a very high level of quality to consider buying.

Lets put it this way, you can't build briggs and straton powered bikes and expect to sell to the deep pockets guys. You'd have to build something along the lines of the 250r and 350x fully suspended trikes to get anyone interested who could actually afford one.

You also said your cost would be between 4500$ and 5500$. Is that the cost to manufacture one or what the bike could cost to buy from you. Don't think you'll sell bikes in the 6000 - 7000 dollar range. It really won't happen.

The quality would really have to be there. Don't build something comparable to a Tiger cause 80% of your market wouldn't be interested.

I think you're only real chance would to be manufacturing 70 pitbike style trikes. Find a good company to produce a frame, then use off the shelf quad and pitbike parts. Get you quality high and your cost to the consumer in the $1000-$1200 range and you'd have a pretty good shot.

You could even have size ranges, 50cc up to 150cc. Lifan engines can be had cheap and seem to be high quality enough to use. You'd still have some buyers who would be skeptical of the Lifan engines though. Offer a a pittrike with REAL Honda 90cc engine from a trx90 as an option for a premium.

Thats my $.02

[torker]

It's been discussed before. But I'd say:

Start with a kit to use existing quad parts like swingarms, axles, rear plastics, seats, grab bars, pegs, calipers, rotors, lines, exhausts, rev boxes, air filters, thumb throttles, all you can posibly use that's readily available.

Produce only a quality frame that will use a 450 motor, start with only one brand, keep it simple.

Then you'll need the front end. Build a good set of tripples to accept newer suspension compnents, these will need to be developed along with the rear suspension, everything must work together.

Then the fuel tank, maybe an existing tank and shrouds and rads could be used to simplify things.

A huge airbox will aid in h.p. And for the love of God, use a carb. I love fuel injenction systems, but the truth is they are expensive.

I think this could be a better reality. During the 90's when there were no racing quads around that was the way it was done, and it worked, given a bigger marker, of course. But this quads could hit the $15-20,000 mark. We don't need that.
The list goes on, but a kit will give someone the flexibility of getting new or used components, like engines and exhausts. You could sell turn key trykes, the DIY complete kit or part of the kit, like the frame, tripples and they can get the pegs and seat and plastics.
That's just my opinion.
Great idea tho!!!

TORKER.

[SYKO]

you know what guys, on one of my thinkin escapades of recent, whould a manufacturer like say GAS GAS, TM, or some of those smaller compaines possibly build a trike? they allready build low number models any way, some GAS GAS quads number less then 1000 made a year. With the right amount of push, they could make a low production run of some very nice machines, I think this would be possible if either we put the money for a machine or we had some investors interested in it.

Not only do these companies have the tooling at hand to build the machine, they also have high quality motors as well. I would think this would be a viable option for us to try out. I know alot always say hear that they would buy a New machine right off the batt, but the one that would foloow through with it number even less, I would be interested in a new machine and would pay a nice clip if it was TRULY worth it and the quality was there like Louis said.





http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/derbyking/gasgasleftside.jpg

[oldskool83]

i still think if you want a new one is just somthing you have to build yourself. its a good idea but i think we gotta own up to reality here...its a 2 or 4 wheel market anymore...

[SYKO]

thats very well may be the case, but if for some reason you goto a dealer and your looking for a "new" machine and your looking over the dirt bikes and then the quads, then out of the corner of your EYE you see a fresh new trike. Priced comparable to the quads and bikes (have you seen dirtbike prices lately? OMG!) and you make get an average joe to go for a trike over a quad or bike. Obviously We all want something like this otherwise these threads would stop being started and commented on, Oldscholl your going to have ALOT tied up in your machine in the end, very comparabel to buying something new, Not hacking on yours cuz its sweetly awesome, but in many cases you could have gotten a new machine (just making a point, nothing against your build) Same with me, I have funked out alot of doe making my machines, honestly I would love to buy a new machine and take it straigt to the track with only a few mods, instead of taking months to modifie everything and upgrade and blah blah blah you get my drift? some of our members have sold out this way allready, instead of working and fighting for dwindling part suplies for our machines they have been selling out and getting NEW machines ones with warranties and such.

[XL-erate]

The real problem will turn out to be liability insurance! Many insurers wil flat refuse to carry such a policy for 3 wheeler mfgs, other will charge so blasted much that they make all the profits. I have experience in this and know it's true for a fact. In America today you can't beat the insurance companies, they rulle the roost.

Next is IRS reporting requirements: not something to screw around with, speaking of someone else taking all the profits!

Third is your shop insurance may go up drastically, soon as Mr. Insurance comes or drives by and sees what you're up to.

Believe me, it only takes one pissed off employee, one enemy somewhere, to collapse the whole house of cards and then put a match to it, all at YOUR EXPENSE! Facts of life in America today for anybody considering manufacturing.

[Mosh]

you know what guys, on one of my thinkin escapades of recent, whould a manufacturer like say GAS GAS, TM, or some of those smaller compaines possibly build a trike? they allready build low number models any way, some GAS GAS quads number less then 1000 made a year. With the right amount of push, they could make a low production run of some very nice machines, I think this would be possible if either we put the money for a machine or we had some investors interested in it.

Not only do these companies have the tooling at hand to build the machine, they also have high quality motors as well. I would think this would be a viable option for us to try out. I know alot always say hear that they would buy a New machine right off the batt, but the one that would foloow through with it number even less, I would be interested in a new machine and would pay a nice clip if it was TRULY worth it and the quality was there like Louis said.







http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/derbyking/gasgasleftside.jpg2 years ago,they had a few of these at a small dealership.One was a floor model demo,for 2800 bucks.I almost bought it.The only thing that stopped me was I was worried about parts support for them.
I wish I would have bought it now.
So I would think,That making the trikes would be cool,but you would have to have parts support for them.Unlike Tiger,where you cant find any parts for them,without a second loan on your house.:lol:

[Bryan Raffa]

I think thats why the ATT trike went belly UP!:lol: :banned:

[SYKO]

well I thought about a gas gas quad many times they are setup nicely the prices are usually decent they have wicked power and one of well NONE making new 2 strokes now in quads other then rinkydink chingchong atvs, and with any market the more baught the more supllied. My tuner had a gasgas in his shop a while back and he said he got parts to him faster from over seas then from service honda and many other in state parts providers! so they obviously care about their machines still going.


edit:

just noticed xcerlrates post

insurance on building a trike, well its not illegal to build a trike no more then building a car, im sure triker knows this since he owns his shop, and if he was building and sellign trikes THATS PRETTY OBVIOUS AS TO WHAT HES DOING RIGHT? its not like some underground black market sceme hes brewing, plus every DAY a trike is insured in the states....how?? hello! trike conversions rolling down the freeways!! everywhere! I know of about 20 of them in 40 miles around me, thats more then olld trikes! Alll that would be just another minor step to take, but not a big deal.


edit:

raffa...lol I was woundering why I couldnt get parts for my ATT no more? I heard the owner kicked flipped a 8 set on a kx250 dual truck nash board and had double bypass sugery on his dodge aires!

[Mosh]

well I thought about a gas gas quad many times they are setup nicely the prices are usually decent they have wicked power and one of well NONE making new 2 strokes now in quads other then rinkydink chingchong atvs, and with any market the more baught the more supllied. My tuner had a gasgas in his shop a while back and he said he got parts to him faster from over seas then from service honda and many other in state parts providers! so they obviously care about their machines still going.
EFFFF!!
Thanks for making me regret it even more.LOL

[Macs]

Whatever you do, dont call it the ATT. For some reason these models can not be photographed. This has puzzled the three wheeler community since 2007. It has caused the previous builder to collect alot of junk and rip people off. These symptoms could happen to you. I have heard in rare cases your battery has to fixed by an ear of corn and you are doomed to ride a POS.

Anyways, i think if a quality product was built. Something that you could take straight out of the crate and be very dependable. There would be some that would be intrested. But, i am not one to run out and buy one till i see a proven track record. there is alot of people that are the same way. It would take a while to get the ball rolling.

[RedRider_AK]

Hey Syko, do they still make the Gas Gas quads? What's the reliability like on them? I was looking at a Wild 300 (the two-stroke one)...

[Threes company]

Instead of focusing on introducing an entirely new machine to the marketplace... how about offering conversion kits instead? Target one or two of the more popular sport quads being sold...... and offer a high quality front end complete with any materials needed to "modify" the frame along with triple clamps, forks, handlebars and any bits and pieces needed to make use of the manufacturers stock brakes, wheels, tires, etc. In this way you can also "test the waters" on how a new three wheeler would be received by the atv consumer. Also.... the man-power needed to make this happen would be lessened compared to building a "complete" machine.... and I'm no lawyer... but is there a possibility taking this approach would decrease your liabilty factor? There seems to be plenty of kits out there to convert Harleys and Goldwings, etc into road going trikes.... so how about the reverse for quads? Trying to introduce an entirely new machine would be looked at with skepticism by many.... quality, reliabilty and parts availabilty being at the top of the list. By offering a quality system for an already accepted and respected product would get your name out there quickly..... and this could possibly be used as a stepping-stone to your dream of offering a complete three wheeler in the future. Just my two.... :beer

[RedRider_AK]

Like a reverse Astro kit for the 21st century :lol:

[Threes company]

Like a reverse Astro kit for the 21st century :lol:

:lol: Exactly, lol... like the man said! :beer

[Macs]

That would probly be the best way to go. I think it would help to build a market for three wheelers. KLet it come on cauasly

[wad]

I think it would work but its all going to be down to build quality and durabilty.
The problem with all these pits bikes is they only seem to last 5 mins and they break and the parts are a nightmare to get as these companies come and go all the time.
Using Yam running gear like somebody else suggested would be a very good start but its not going to be cheap.

But if anyone could build a ATC that would last and there would always be parts ready to buy then i would be happy to buy a new one but i cant see you doing it anywhere near under the RRP of around $8000

[wad]

Instead of focusing on introducing an entirely new machine to the marketplace... how about offering conversion kits instead? Target one or two of the more popular sport quads being sold...... and offer a high quality front end complete with any materials needed to "modify" the frame along with triple clamps, forks, handlebars and any bits and pieces needed to make use of the manufacturers stock brakes, wheels, tires, etc. In this way you can also "test the waters" on how a new three wheeler would be received by the atv consumer. Also.... the man-power needed to make this happen would be lessened compared to building a "complete" machine.... and I'm no lawyer... but is there a possibility taking this approach would decrease your liabilty factor? There seems to be plenty of kits out there to convert Harleys and Goldwings, etc into road going trikes.... so how about the reverse for quads? Trying to introduce an entirely new machine would be looked at with skepticism by many.... quality, reliabilty and parts availabilty being at the top of the list. By offering a quality system for an already accepted and respected product would get your name out there quickly..... and this could possibly be used as a stepping-stone to your dream of offering a complete three wheeler in the future. Just my two.... :beer

After reading this tho i think this would be the way to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:beer :beer :beer :beer :beer :beer :beer :beer :beer :beer :beer :beer

[wad]

And call it the AT3

[ATC-Eric]

Id stand behind a reverse astro kit.


If done up correctly, could be a good idea.

[ProCarbine2k1]

Hands down a conversion kit would be the only way to go. As much as Id like to see three wheeler production start up, its just not reasonable. The gov, the CPSC, and private law practices would be on your butt as soon as you came up with something.
I would stay away from the ATT's myself, from what Ive been told they are much too fast for the everyday consumer. :lol: :lol:

[oldskool83]

a kid sounds cool...what kinda front ends would be offered, inverted or conventional forks...etc? i would assume a atc250R front fender wold be use haha.

but honestly a reverse kit would be your ticket. make one 1st, show us and then start taking orders.

[RedRider_AK]

As much as Id like to see three wheeler production start up, its just not reasonable. The gov, the CPSC, and private law practices would be on your butt as soon as you came up with something.

Speaking of law practices, has anybody other than me seen these "Rhino Rollover Compensation" ads on tv yet? It makes me sick.

[Threes company]

Speaking of law practices, has anybody other than me seen these "Rhino Rollover Compensation" ads on tv yet? It makes me sick.

Dude..... you've gotta be kidding me! So now the lawyers are targeting Rhinos ( and Gators too I suppose.) Haven't seen any ads like that out my way....yet. Man... when are people just going to take responsibility for their own actions? So now what? outlaw the Rhino because 10 owners out of 100,000 can't drive 'em? :crazy:

[RedRider_AK]

Dude..... you've gotta be kidding me! So now the lawyers are targeting Rhinos ( and Gators too I suppose.) Haven't seen any ads like that out my way....yet. Man... when are people just going to take responsibility for their own actions? So now what? outlaw the Rhino because 10 owners out of 100,000 can't drive 'em? :crazy:

Pretty much. It's saying "If you or a loved one was injured in a Rhino rollover accident, you may be entitled to compensation"...

BULLSH%T

If you roll a Rhino, you're either a bad driver, or are really really fast. Either way, it's not the machine's fault. Even then, I don't know how you'd roll one. I drove one, and it never felt spooky. It doesn't even go that fast. I drifted it a few times, and it was very stable.

Just you watch, Rhinos are gonna be extinct just like trikes if this lawsuit passes. :mad:

[SYKO]

im not sure if the reverse astro would be all that great, not only would you have to have a weld on front end you would have to remount the rads and gas tank as well, and additional plastic parts needed, I still say get ahold of a european atv company and have a low production run made.

[4cylinders]

hey welcome to the board!! nice idea, just hard to market. why not try a modular frame using existing parts, 3/4 wheels, any engine?

[Dirtcrasher]

I'm don't think we need "new" model ATC's. WE, the members and diehard fans of ATC's would be the only buyers. I think if someone had the power and ability to reproduce and or upgrade the stuff we can't buy (discontinued) or feel the existing product is inadequate, there is definitely a market there.

Look at the 86/87 tank scoop. CMON! How hard would that piece of god dam tupperware be to make? If someone cam up with one that was thick enough to last I'll bet they could sell a minimum of 100 of them. People are paying almost 100$ for junk used ones!! Thats 10,000$ right there kids.... My next 86X is gonna have aluminum diamond plate scoops be them redneck or not!!

ATC's cannot be mass produced ever again. And any private person that wants to make a buck can't sell 25 a year and pay there employees. But, they sure could sell allot of parts tha we can't buy or upgrade and adapt newer technology to our 20yo machines.

[RedRider_AK]

I think Dirt has the best idea. Just make aftermarket parts. Maybe conversion plates for bolting other engines in, aftermarket conversion frames, etc.

[McDerry]

Conversion parts for a Dirt Bike chassis.

[SYKO]

I think you guys are wrong, I dont think only we would buy these machines, the only reasons where here are becouse we allready have them. If people have a choice I think many would buy a new trike.

[factoryX]

Dude..... you've gotta be kidding me! So now the lawyers are targeting Rhinos ( and Gators too I suppose.) Haven't seen any ads like that out my way....yet. Man... when are people just going to take responsibility for their own actions? So now what? outlaw the Rhino because 10 owners out of 100,000 can't drive 'em? :crazy:

http://yamaha-rhino-atv-rollover.com/?gclid=CMSz06iluZECFQsUiQod8lMvOQ

I searched it and found this...

[Nick_R_23]

^^ Will the bullsh!t EVER end?!?! Geez people, 20 years later after the 3 wheeler crap and now they still cant even drive anything with 4 wheels!!!

On the topic of producing a 3 wheeler, I think conversion kits would be the way to go. I got a change to check out a brand new TRX450R today, and looking at the bottom part of the frame directly in front of the engine, if you cut off all that useless junk up front and bent that part of the frame upward and used it like a downtube on a 3 wheeler frame, I think it would be pretty easy to reinforce that area a bit and weld on a steering neck, fab up a set of triples, slap on a front wheel and your basicly good to go. On the plastic issue, it seems that the shrouds off a Honda dirtbike would come close to working on there, but I would just make a whole new set of shrouds to fit. Just my .02

-Nick :TrikesOwn

[Macs]

After giving this some more thought i think they would sell. Look how much the attitude has changed towards three wheelers. When i got my first one in 2002, everyone was telling me how stupid i am. Always got asked if i had a death wish. Well now i get asked, can i ride it? That is badass! Are you saling it? All my friends that use to clown me now look for reasons to get to drive mine.

Motorsports are getting more and more extreme. I think alot of people would by one, just so they could say" look at me, i am one crazy sob". I think it would be an instant hit.

[ceaserthethird]

Gas Gas , would be a awesome place to ask if they will help ? ? ? ?

I never heard bad news about them ...

[DIGGER DOG]

http://yamaha-rhino-atv-rollover.com/?gclid=CMSz06iluZECFQsUiQod8lMvOQ

I searched it and found this...



This is off topic but ill post just the same
Im a service tech at a honda yamaha kawajunkie dealership and have installed many
of the rhino recall door kits and of course its operator error involved on the roll overs
I have of course rolled a rhino the things are not dangerous Its the operator although yamaha could have made the chassis wider like the kawi teryx I dont like kawis but they have made a decent side by side learning from yamaha .
It all comes down to op error and is not a manufaturing defect just common sense
the rollovers occur doing doughnuts ,drifting ,WOT turns tight turns (WOT=wide open throttle) this is just another attourney making $$$$$ from operator stupidity.
My roll over was a result of driving the unit beyond its capability as a tech I knew the chassis limitations and went beyond them drifting around a trailer my fault not the rhinos I wasent wearing the seat belt, it didnt have the doors (athought they wont help much unless you use the seat belte too) I didnt get hurt although if there was a passenger they might have and again would have been my fault.
Stupid people are making the lawyers richer and screwing it up for the rest of us
we all know the drill .

[Louis Mielke]

My question is, why does Operator negligence and miss use never hold up in court. How come the claim of design defect is was always wins?

These PEOPLE ARE DEFECTIVE...they're not driving cars. God I hate idiots, and I hate bleeding heart mothers who go on and on and make youtube videos about their poor babies dying cause of that dangerous ATV! Maybe they shouldn't been on the ATV, maybe they should have been supervising the child. Don't cry about it.

[RedRider_AK]

My question is, why does Operator negligence and miss use never hold up in court. How come the claim of design defect is was always wins?

These PEOPLE ARE DEFECTIVE...they're not driving cars. God I hate idiots, and I hate bleeding heart mothers who go on and on and make youtube videos about their poor babies dying cause of that dangerous ATV! Maybe they shouldn't been on the ATV, maybe they should have been supervising the child. Don't cry about it.

HEAR HEAR, 3 CHEERS FOR THE DARWIN AWARDS! :w00t: :beer :banned:

[XL-erate]

just noticed xcerlrates post

insurance on building a trike, well its not illegal to build a trike no more then building a car, im sure triker knows this since he owns his shop, and if he was building and sellign trikes THATS PRETTY OBVIOUS AS TO WHAT HES DOING RIGHT? its not like some underground black market sceme hes brewing, plus every DAY a trike is insured in the states....how?? hello! trike conversions rolling down the freeways!! everywhere! I know of about 20 of them in 40 miles around me, thats more then olld trikes! Alll that would be just another minor step to take, but not a big deal.


I don't think you understood what I'm talking about. Not about insurance to go for a ride, to cover an accident. I'm talking about manufacturer's liability insurance, in order to be able to mfg and sell the product. You have to have liability insurance to protect you ASSets when you manufacture a product that could hurt, maim or kill someone.

Doesn't matter how well built or engineered it is, there's always some *Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited**E dited* that can manage to kill himself with it. When that happens and all his family back to Noah come down with lawyers you better believe a guy needs some really good insurance.

Try to get manufacturer's liability insurance for 3 wheelers! I don't know of any American insurer that would pick up that policy, and you can't manufacture and sell such a vehicle without it! Well, you can, but you'll lose everything including your toothbrush if somebody gets hurt bad or killed.

Worth it?

[XL-erate]

What's with all the EDI EDIT EDIT silliness? Since when is it offensive to say the name of a male donkey, spelled out as one word? Sheesh....

[McDerry]

I don't think you understood what I'm talking about. Not about insurance to go for a ride, to cover an accident. I'm talking about manufacturer's liability insurance, in order to be able to mfg and sell the product. You have to have liability insurance to protect you ASSets when you manufacture a product that could hurt, maim or kill someone.

Doesn't matter how well built or engineered it is, there's always some *Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited**E dited* that can manage to kill himself with it. When that happens and all his family back to Noah come down with lawyers you better believe a guy needs some really good insurance.

Try to get manufacturer's liability insurance for 3 wheelers! I don't know of any American insurer that would pick up that policy, and you can't manufacture and sell such a vehicle without it! Well, you can, but you'll lose everything including your toothbrush if somebody gets hurt bad or killed.

Worth it?


Personally i wouldn't imagine the general liability insurance being that expensive or hard to acquire. What I would see as a problem is being able to keep from having policy after policy dropped when the claims start pouring in.

In reality if one where to manufacture a fat tired dirt bike kit, and a quad rear swingarm that just happens to fit the bike chassis aswell.

[XL-erate]

I've often wondered about mfgr's liability when doing a 'Kit' of some kind? I've got something I'd like to build, too, but wouldn't really want to sell it complete, ready to go: liability.

I've seen a disclaimer [for what that's worth] on some mechanical stuff "Not sold as suitable for any intended purpose implied or otherwise and manufacturer assumes no liability blah blah blah..." Good ambulance chaser lawyer could probably tear that apart in his sleep I imagine.

A few scumbags have managed to ruin a whole bunch of good stuff!