tri moto owners, i need your help! [Archive]

PureMetalKorey

01-10-2008, 06:18 PM

i have a 1983 tri moto 175. i haven't had this thing running in i don't know how long, i work on it, give up, work on it some more, give up, and so on.

i think i may have to ask these questions in steps after confirmation.

first off, it won't start, the carb has been rebuilt more than once, and all seems to be ok with it. i should add that the choke has broken off and i have the choke completely blocked off.

when sprayed with starting fluid, it starts fine and runs fine for as long as the starter fluid lasts. after that it just dies out, and my pulser doesn't seem to be kicking, i have the pulser hooked up to the fitting coming off of the side of the reed housing. i'm pretty positive thats the right place to hook it up.

so i suppose the first question would be, does this seem to be a fuel delivery problem to all of you? if so, is there any common problems you guys have had with this?

i really need feedback on this, i need to get this thing running.

thanks guys!

james9r9r

01-10-2008, 06:34 PM

I wish I could help but I cant heres some pics of my 1982 Tri-Moto 175cc.

Tell me what you think :)

Pics:

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g197/xxbudxx/1982%20Yamaha%20Tri-Moto%20175cc/101_1006.jpg

*** I was warned once about posting pics w/o a helmet on, while riding***

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g197/xxbudxx/1982%20Yamaha%20Tri-Moto%20175cc/101_1005.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g197/xxbudxx/1982%20Yamaha%20Tri-Moto%20175cc/101_1001.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g197/xxbudxx/1982%20Yamaha%20Tri-Moto%20175cc/101_1000.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g197/xxbudxx/1982%20Yamaha%20Tri-Moto%20175cc/101_0999.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g197/xxbudxx/1982%20Yamaha%20Tri-Moto%20175cc/101_1002.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g197/xxbudxx/1982%20Yamaha%20Tri-Moto%20175cc/101_1003.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g197/xxbudxx/1982%20Yamaha%20Tri-Moto%20175cc/101_1007.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g197/xxbudxx/1982%20Yamaha%20Tri-Moto%20175cc/101_1009.jpg

pickleweasel_00

01-10-2008, 06:49 PM

sounds like a fuel delivery problem. Not sure how the fuels system is set up on those but might check all lines for fuel flow (does it have a pump on it or not?), and makes sure the carb is getting fuel and the needle isn't sticking. If it is running on starting fluid, it should run on gas... provided it is getting it. Also from what I understand, these models have an oil injection system on them, and I think the oil line is supposed to go to the reed cage where it mixes with the fuel.

If you have a fuel pump on there (again not too familiar with the 175) it would probably have a vacuum line running to the side of the cylinder like the 250. But if there is no fuel pump ignore all of that :) And if you don't use the oil injection, mix the gas!

But look the rest of the fuel system over and make sure it'g getting where it is supposed to go

james9r9r

01-10-2008, 06:52 PM

Make sure your oil injector is hooked up to the carb :) or else your 3 wheeler will look like mine.

PureMetalKorey

01-10-2008, 07:00 PM

yes, the three wheeler is oil injected, i have the oil injector hooked up in the side of the carb where it's supposed to go,

if i unhook the fuel line from the carb, and turn the gas on, fuel flows freely.

the 175's have a fuel pulser that is hooked up halfway between the tank and the carb, on one end is a fitting for the tank to the pulser, on the other end there is a fitting coming off that goes from the pulser to the carb, but there is a fitting off of the side of the pulser that hooks up to the reed cage i believe.

it's almost like, it's flowing into the carb but the carb isn't moving it where it needs to go.

this thing has got me so aggravated haha

james9r9r

01-10-2008, 07:04 PM

Well just look at my Tri-Moto pics :(

Tri-Z Pilot

01-10-2008, 07:10 PM

I have no idea what this pulser is your talkin about, but you have narrowed your fuel problem down between the cylinder and carb. I bet your needle valve is stuck, is the bowl filling up?

PureMetalKorey

01-10-2008, 07:18 PM

yes, the bowl is filling up, thats why i can't understand it haha.

i should, be ok if i just hook a line up going from my tank straight to the carb, right?

PureMetalKorey

01-10-2008, 07:19 PM

james, do you have a picture of the left side of your three wheeler? if so, you should be able to see the pulser just below the gas tank, mounted to the frame

Tri-Z Pilot

01-10-2008, 08:07 PM

So there is fuel in the bowl. Checked the jets for blockage? Cleaned the carb and blew it out with air?

PureMetalKorey

01-10-2008, 08:49 PM

yep, actually did that for like the 10th time today, absolutely no blockage, the carb is completely clean, honestly, i just think it might be a faulty carb in some weird way, it's still so clean though, i don't understand it.

piroguedog

01-10-2008, 09:02 PM

Man I got my own questions. .................wish i could help.
58593

58594

58595

Nick_R_23

01-10-2008, 09:36 PM

This pulsar your talking about, could it be that youre referring to the fuel pump? If so, this would be something to check...usually they are vacuum controlled by a hose to the crankcase...if the hose is leaking then the fuel pump wont work or work crappy. Also check/replace the fuel lines for leaks, Ive had sets that looked fine that had no holes but made the motor run bad if it would start at all. I dont know why, but replacing them solved the problem.

One other thing, I know its a long shot but...check your spark. I have a 77 Yamaha YZ80 that was getting gas and everything, but it would only run on starting fluid. Turned out the coil and stator were both junk and would only produce barely enough spark to ignite the starting fluid. Replaced them and it made a world of difference. Just some things to check.

-Nick :TrikesOwn

PureMetalKorey

01-10-2008, 10:37 PM

yes, i'm talking about the fuel pump, sorry suppose i could have said that from the beginning.

see, i'm confused, because i have a fitting coming out of the crankcase, but i've been told thats a vent hole, so maybe i should have the fuel pump hooked up to that, instead of the reed cage?

maybe i'll change out the fuel lines

Mr.Jake

01-10-2008, 10:38 PM

the "pulser" your talking about is the oil injector pump right? If i were you i would completely disconnect and remove the oil injector, with a machine that old, and with most of the tri moto's, they were known to go bad and stop working. Don't trust it and take it off and mix your fuel. But be sure to block off every place were the oil injector hooked up. As for the not starting, Check for air leaks, they could be causing it to not have enough suction to suck in the gas. The rubber flange from the carb to the head is a likely candidate for an air leak. Make sure your needle is in the middle slot, air mixture screw 2-1/4 out (thats what mine is). And what you should do is buy some carb cleaner, the kind you soak the whole carb in. Dissassemble the whole carb and thow all the pieces into the cleaner except the choke plunger (it will swell up and not fit) and take off every o-ring before you throw it in, or they'll all swell up twice the size.

Mr.Jake

01-10-2008, 10:42 PM

the fitting is the crank breather, just put a hose on it and run it somewhere were it wont get clogged

PureMetalKorey

01-10-2008, 10:44 PM

the pulser i was referring to, is the FUEL pump, sorry for the confusion guys.

if i were going to disconnect my oil injector how would i go about that, do i need to get into the engine and take stuff apart, or just disconnect the tubing and block the port into the carb?

Mr.Jake

01-10-2008, 11:11 PM

disconect the tubing, leave about 2 inches of tubing off the carb and block it with a bolt or something. But make sure you block everywhere the oil injector was hooked up or the carb will suck air, and not run

PureMetalKorey

01-11-2008, 12:41 PM

do you think the oil injector being hooked up and not working properly might have something to do with my three wheeler not running?

i already have pre-mixed gas in the tank by the way.

Mr.Jake

01-11-2008, 05:03 PM

maybe, if its hocked up wrong it could be sucking in air, its better to remove it, believe me, then you'll not have to worry about blowing your engine

james9r9r

01-11-2008, 05:23 PM

PureMetalKorey

01-11-2008, 10:24 PM

i'm getting like 10 different things about the fitting on the crankcase, i'm getting it's a vent, i'm getting that it connects to the fuel pump, and i'm getting it's connected to the carb. i don't know which it is.

if it DOES hook the carb, where does it connect because it's a 1/4 inch fitting, and there is only one 1/4 inch fitting on the carb and thats to the fuel input.

Vealmonkey

01-11-2008, 11:43 PM

Frankly, I'm a little confused. You keep referring to a Pulser\Fuel Pump. I have a yt125 and it has no fuel pump. The fuel line from the petcock goes directly to the carb. So what you are referring to, I don't have a clue. And please, don't type such things as people are telling you 10 different things. If you don't explain well what is going on, it makes it hard to help you.
You say your fuel is premixed with your 2 stroke oil, fine, I'm not even concerned that you have a correct oil ratio mix. Just hook the fuel line directly to the carb. The fuel tank is ahead of and above the engine, meaning it should be gravity fed. Whatever the "Fuel Pump" is, bypass it for now. Make sure you have your fuel line going into the proper fitting. If you don't know which is the proper fuel line fitting, than you have big problems and maybe you should be looking some info up on the internet or buying yourself a shop manual for the yt175. Once the fuel line is hooked up to the proper fitting at the carb, turn the petcock to on and give it a pull and see what happens. Please let us know. Also make sure you have a fair amount of fuel in the tank, it doesn't have to be full. It would also help if you had a few clear pictures. I would really like to see what the Pulser\Fuel Pump is. My yt125 and shop manual are across town right now or I would post a couple of pictures. My oil injector is not hooked up and I premix my fuel also and my trike runs fine. But please have a little patience with the people who are trying to help you.

Mr.Jake

01-12-2008, 12:36 AM

is this "fuel pump" on the right side of the engine (from behind the bike)? Inside a plastic casing? If thats what you are talking about its the oil injector pump. The 175 and 125 tri motos didnt have a fuel pump, they are gravity fed. where exactly is this fuel pump located?

Mr.Jake

01-12-2008, 12:37 AM

and that 1/4 in. fitting is the crank breather, not a "auto lube?"

PureMetalKorey

01-12-2008, 11:16 AM

it's just hard getting answers when 5 people are telling you 10 different things.

thanks jake, from what i've heard i think your right, everything i've read says it's a breather.

here is a picture i found on ebay of the fuel pump i altered it to try to explain where the connections go.

the connection coming out of the side of the pump which i named "pulser or return line" is the one i have hooked up the reed cage, i think that gives it it's vacuum.

i know there are some people on here that have no clue what they're talking about.
i've done all the basics, i wouldn't be on here posting if it was an obvious problem. so it's safe to say you can assume i have the gas on and the fuel line hooked up where it needs to be.

thanks for the help guys, i really do appreciate it, hope you all can help me get this thing running.

as of right now, i DO have the fuel pump bypassed. i also have my oil pump blocked off and i've got pre mixed in there, but the gas has been in there for a long time i think i might drain it and run new gas, what ratio do you guys mix?

Vealmonkey

01-12-2008, 01:46 PM

The mix ratio depends on whose 2 stroke oil you are using. Usually somewhere on the bottle it gives the recommended ratio. I don't think you mentioned it, but are you using the correct spartk plug? Is the spark plug clean and properly gapped? I don't know who put a fuel pump on the trike but it doesn't belong on there so there might be other wrong things with the trike. Where do you have the idle screw and air fuel mixture screw set at to start. I would say around 2 turns out from seated would be a good place to start. Please get pics of how the fuel line is hooked up and some of these other parts you are talking about.

Mr.Jake

01-12-2008, 02:12 PM

the ratio reccomended for tri motos is 32:1, but alot of people run 40:1. the spark plug i believe is a NGK BR7es. And if you bypassed the fuel pump, that fitting going to the reed cage needs to be plugged, my mistake was putting a gas line directly to it and it poured fuel out the exhaust! (Dont do that) So plug that aswell.

I checked mine and it does have a place to bolt the fuel pump (is it on the left side of the frame, closer to the front?) But i never used one, i think they must have been used only of you have the oil injector hooked up so that it wouldn't try to suck more oil than gas, but this is just my theory.

Mine runs great without the fuel pump, so i'd just take it off if i were you, less things to worry about!

Mr.Jake

01-12-2008, 02:16 PM

Vealmonkey, i remember looking at a diagram of the tri moto, and it did have a fuel pump, but as i said, i think it had something to do with helping the gas:oil injection ratio. That or it was used on a different year

PureMetalKorey

01-12-2008, 05:46 PM

i have the right plug in there, but i was thinking about it yesterday and that fuel has been sitting in there a little over a year, i think i'll probably end up replacing the fuel, and replacing the spark plug as well. i have my air mixture screw set to 2 1/4 out.

i'll also, completely plug off the oil pump and block off the fitting on the reed cage also. tomorrow i'm going to work on it with a buddy, who has alot of experience. maybe with those changes it'll fix the problem.

if you guys think of anything else please let me know, i'll let you guys know how it goes!

thanks for the help guy's it's really appreciated, wish me luck

james9r9r

01-12-2008, 06:01 PM

http://i9.tinypic.com/8668xaf.jpg

PureMetalKorey

01-12-2008, 08:15 PM

hey james, sorry, i was refering to the fitting actually to the right of the oil pump fittings. if you're looking at the picture you posted, the fitting i was talking about will be directly to the right of those, i think in the picture there is a black hose coming off of it.

james9r9r

01-12-2008, 08:45 PM

Yes That is just a brether or something Mine was never connected

Mr.Jake

01-13-2008, 02:58 AM

Did you do a compression test on it? should be around 140psi min i believe for a 2 stroke. If you get it running good i highly recommend a wiseco piston and boyeseen power reeds. Huge difference! And once you get it running set up the clutch or it might not idle, to do this you...
1. loosen adjuster lock nut
2.Turn adjuster screw counter clockwise until you feel resistance
3. turn adjuster screw clockwize 1/4 turn
4. tighten up lock nut.
and you might want to get some of that oil additive engine cleaner to clean out the tranny. Sorry for the spelling mistakes and if this didn't make much sence, its 2 am, i just got in from tinkering with some toys, tired as hell

PureMetalKorey

01-13-2008, 11:17 AM

yeah, we've done compression tests, i already replaced the piston with a wiseco and the reeds couldn't hurt to be replaced.

like i said guys, this thing has probably been ridden 2 hours at most after we completely tore it down, cleaned it and put it back to all the specs.

wish one of you tri moto experts lived close to me so i could just drop it off and let you deal with it for some cash :) haha

Mr.Jake

01-13-2008, 12:45 PM

you'll feel much better if you fix it yourself, plus your getting good knowledge of how they work. let us know if your make any progress.

PureMetalKorey

01-14-2008, 10:18 PM

UPDATE!:

so, first thing i did today was replaced the spark plug, the place didn't have the right one so i bought a "similar alternative"

got the plug in, no difference, still wouldn't stay running..

so for some reason it kinda hit me, maybe it's because there is no resistance and it's getting too much air (i had the whole air filter system off) so i put my hand over the back of the carb and it started up. i put the air filter back on and same thing, no starting.. so then i took it all off again and put my hand over the carb once again and let it run for a few minutes while i gave it some resistance. after it warmed up for a few moments i was able to take my hand away and it would idle fine. as it was idling i was able to put the air filter housing back on.

i tried to ride it down the street but as soon as it was in gear it would idle much lower and it was stalling out bit time. every time i was push the the throttle it would either come close to dying, or it would just completely die.

i'm thinking the reason it is stalling out is because either:
A: ) the air screw needs adjusted, right now i have it set to 1 1/4 turns out.
B: ) the idler needs adjusted, but i'm not quite sure on how to adjust that properly
C: ) the old gas in there either isn't the correct mix, or it's just bad.

do you guys have any input to this problem? now it's seeming more like a common problem than anything.

Mr.Jake

01-14-2008, 10:39 PM

mine did the same thing, i had forgotten to plug some oil injection lines. check every fitting on your carb, block them all except the float breather (comes from the bowl) and the gas fitting.

Vealmonkey

01-14-2008, 10:40 PM

I'm sure all those things you wrote are problems that need looked at. Also make sure your clutch is properly adjusted and that your brake isn't dragging and that your wheel bearings are all rolling smoothly.

PureMetalKorey

01-15-2008, 09:44 AM

hey jake, if i'm correct the only lines that go into the carb are:
the fuel line
the float breather
and the oil pump line
is this correct?

i'm hoping it's more of a problem with the fuel, do you think it could effect it this much? also, if it's stalling like it's about to die, is it starving for air, or getting too much?

thanks guys, you really are helping me get this thing running for the first time in over a year, keep the replies comin :)

PureMetalKorey

01-15-2008, 04:53 PM

after some research and consulting with a coworker i think i've reached the conclusion that there is a good chance my problems are due to too much oil in my fuel mixture causing it to run way too lean.

i'll let you guys know what happens with and update tomorrow.

also, i think i may go with a higher octane fuel because i think before my bike was "detonating" and running at very high uncontrollable RPM's i think may be due to boring it out and running a new piston.