1981 Atc250r

[money89tractors]

Hello everyone,
My name is Phillip and i have recently joined the forums here. I discovered 3ww while looking for information about the famous ATC200R.

I had thought i had found a 200R, or so the owner said. It turned out (after sending pictures to NINJA) to be just a stock 250R. Here are some pictures:

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/th_S4020871.jpg (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/S4020871.jpg)
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/th_S4020870.jpg (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/S4020870.jpg)
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/th_S4020869.jpg (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/S4020869.jpg)
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/th_S4020874.jpg (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/S4020874.jpg)
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/th_S4020877.jpg (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/S4020877.jpg)
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/th_S4020878.jpg (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/S4020878.jpg)

The bike it pretty rough but ran well...i say RAN for a reason.

I took the bike out for a good day of riding yesterday with a friend. After hours of riding i went inside to grab some food. My buddy on the other hand (whose only ever owned 4 strokes) wanted to keep riding the trike. I told him to dump some gas in it and go for it. Well, he grabbed the wrong can a poured straight gas into it. The bike ran amazing after that...(i still didnt know it had straight gas in it) until i came out side and saw him take off...a good half hour after he poured the gas into it...and noticed there was no pretty blue smoke trail :-|:cry:

He took off and was gone from sight and sound for 30 minutes or so, which had me worried, and for good reason. Needless to say, the bike locked up tighter than a nun. I managed (by putting the bike in gear and rolling it backwards) to unstick the cylinder..but it now had no compression. We then pulled it and managed to get it running once it was moving fast enough, which gave me some relief. I will be puttin the money into the trike to get it riding again as i love and have always loved riding trikes (started when i was 6ish)

I do have some good news for this story. Before the 250R died, i SMOKED 2 quads with ease :D (one was a 300ex and the other was a raptor i believe)

Anyway, i have more to say and questions to ask over the time of this thread, but that will come later. Thank you all for taking the time to read all this so far *takes a breath* lol

-Phil

[3Wheelers4Life]

:welcome:!!! nice score on the 250R. it does not look all that rough. just get the engine fixed, dent in the tank, some stickers and the front fender an youll be good. nice on smoking 2 quads though!!!:TrikesOwn what are your plans for it besides fixing the engine? have fun.

[money89tractors]

Plans once i get the engine fixed are just to ride it. Its fast. I do need to do some other things (mechanically) besides the engine. The front disk is gone, but i dont need it. It does also need rear axle bearings, so thats coming as well. I need new rear tires as the right one has a bad wobble in the sidewall...it may also be the rim, not sure yet. I am going to find a front fender, headlight set, and a tail/brake light set to make the bike registerable.

Quick question, what clutch set will work in the early 250R? I was told the kit in it is new, but i feel like it slipped badly when i got on it hard in 4th and 5th.

-Phil

[3Wheelers4Life]

Plans once i get the engine fixed are just to ride it. Its fast. I do need to do some other things (mechanically) besides the engine. The front disk is gone, but i dont need it. It does also need rear axle bearings, so thats coming as well. I need new rear tires as the right one has a bad wobble in the sidewall...it may also be the rim, not sure yet. I am going to find a front fender, headlight set, and a tail/brake light set to make the bike registerable.

Quick question, what clutch set will work in the early 250R? I was told the kit in it is new, but i feel like it slipped badly when i got on it hard in 4th and 5th.

-Phil

i suggest getting bearings from "dads" on the boards here. i was told that you dont have to register an atv if it was manufactured before 87, but i am not 100% sure on that. see the links for the clutch kits below. but give it what ever it needs or can be done now, because when you put it back together and the clutch slips, or something goes wrong, or is worn out, and you have to tear the engine back apart it sucks.
CLUTCHES personally i would go with the more expensive ebc kit, but thats just me.
http://denniskirk.com/jsp/product_catalog/MMYSkuDisplay.jsp;jsessionid=RFZLGWE5MJYBRLA0WTISM 4VMDK0OWIV0?leafCatId=11001&catId=110&store=Main&mmyId=6154
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/81-84-ATC250R-Clutch-Plate-Set-or-Disc-Set-ATC-250R_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ43977QQihZ016QQite mZ260198348617QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

[money89tractors]

Yea, im going to look at the clutch when the engine is out. If the fibers look good, ill try stiffer springs and scuffing up the steels.

I will check on the registering deal. They just passed a law here in indiana where ATVs can be registered for public road use. Secondary roads only of course.

Thanks for the links as well. Maybe you know where i can get a top end kit too? The local Honda dealer is a bit pricey on the piston alone. I know ebay has a full top end kit with cylinder for $200 i believe, but maybe you know of somewhere better?

Thanks

-Phil

[3Wheelers4Life]

Yea, im going to look at the clutch when the engine is out. If the fibers look good, ill try stiffer springs and scuffing up the steels.

I will check on the registering deal. They just passed a law here in indiana where ATVs can be registered for public road use. Secondary roads only of course.

Thanks for the links as well. Maybe you know where i can get a top end kit too? The local Honda dealer is a bit pricey on the piston alone. I know ebay has a full top end kit with cylinder for $200 i believe, but maybe you know of somewhere better?

Thanks

-Phil
well what kind of top end kit do you want? oem (honda), oem replacement (aftermarket), or performance?
heres a performance (http://denniskirk.com/jsp/product_catalog/MMYSkuDisplay.jsp;jsessionid=RFZLGWE5MJYBRLA0WTISM 4VMDK0OWIV0?leafCatId=11007&catId=110&store=Main&mmyId=6154), heres a performance kit (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-Atc-250R-250-Three-Wheeler-Engine-Top-Rebuild-Kit_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ43977QQihZ011QQitem Z320204061393QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW) i dont see any oem replacements, so if you dont want to go high performance i guess you have to buy from honda. personally i like to buy my parts individually that way i know the quality of the parts im getting, in some ebay auctions, they dont mention the manufactures of the parts cause their low quality. that will be cool if you can ride the 250r on the street legally! check out www.denniskirk.com check your pm box too.

[DeePa]

200 bucks for the top end isnt a bad deal to me.

you need to see how much life is left in your cylinder first and see what bore that ebay cylinder is on.

figure bore/hone/piston kit is going to run 140-150, then add in gaskets and such...

Its all up to you, check out your options, but id probably go with that nice new cylinder from ebay and have them paint it up for 20 bucks.

Ive dealt with them before for other stuff and they were always good.

When i redo my 200s motor ill probably grab that kit because it will be cheaper that way.

Mike

[money89tractors]

Thanks Mike, nice to know someone has dealt with them before. I am going to check my cylinder before i buy anything. I may not even need to bore it. All in all i might be able to get away with a gasket set and a set of rings, ill know for sure tomorrow.

Anyone know the stock bore size on an 81 250R?

-Phil

[3Wheelers4Life]

Thanks Mike, nice to know someone has dealt with them before. I am going to check my cylinder before i buy anything. I may not even need to bore it. All in all i might be able to get away with a gasket set and a set of rings, ill know for sure tomorrow.

Anyone know the stock bore size on an 81 250R?

-Phil

my friend dealt with them before. in my opinion, not the best quality, but the best price. heres the specs: http://www.3wheelerworld.com/spexhome.shtml

[money89tractors]

Thanks for the specs. Ill get it measured out tomorrow, weather permitting (i have no garage to work in and its been raining all night)

I honestly don't think the trike is in too bad of shape. its been rode a LOT is its only problem, other than what happened to it yesterday.

-Phil

[DeePa]

if it locked up for a while and you lost compression, chances are youre going to need a piston kit and hone at least.

if you can somehow use the piston, this of it this way.

how old is it? why not do it right when its apart?

my 250r motor was on its stock bore/piston/rings when i tore it apart and i still opted to get it bored, honed, piston, rings...just to know that its not going to need it for a while.

Find out what the bore size is, check everything for wear and out of round ness, and let us know.

Mike

[money89tractors]

I will find out tomorrow, if worst comes to worst i am prepared to buy even a "new" cylinder. This bike might still be the standard bore. The owner before me never rebuilt it, and as far he knows, the owner before him never did either (its a 3 owner bike). If it is, i may go ahead and get the .020 piston and have it bored. Time will tell.

-Phil

[money89tractors]

I got the head off today. Still dont know if its been bored before or not (looks like stock piston to me) but i defiantly lost a ring. There are some scores in the cylinder wall and all along the top of the cylinder is rough. Here some pics:
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/th_S4020897.jpg (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/S4020897.jpg)
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/th_S4020896.jpg (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/S4020896.jpg)
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/th_S4020895.jpg (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/S4020895.jpg)
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/th_S4020894.jpg (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/S4020894.jpg)
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/th_S4020893.jpg (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/S4020893.jpg)
and this could be the nastiest air box ive even seen...
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/th_S4020899.jpg (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/S4020899.jpg)



I also took a short video (10 sec): http://s119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/?action=view&current=S4020898.flv

Enjoy

-Phil

[Brockey]

I know wiseco pistons have the mm of the piston wrote on the top of them. for example mine is at max bore and there is letters then 7200 on my piston. I can only make out 3 numbers on yours so I cant tell the bore.

[money89tractors]

I was wondering if those numbers would tell me the current bore. Ill get the numbers tomorrow, if i can.

-Phil

[Brockey]

if you have more numbers like mine you can tell. Sometimes its on the bottom of the piston aswell I believe. Not sure someone here should know. But all you have to do if it is, is take off the jug and look under the piston. You gotta take it off anyways, hey by.

[toocheaptosmoke]

It looks like "1.00" on the piston, probably bored 1mm over stock. Stock is 70.0 mm. Almost looks like someone ran her hot or lean, and maybe had some detonation going on.

[money89tractors]

i think might have predetonated...if you look close at the top of the piston, its not perfectly round anymore and all around the top of the cylinder is a bit rough like bits of it melted to the cylinder.

-Phil

[NINJA]

Hey Phil, tough break man! I'd be pretty pissed at my friend for that one man! Why can't he pay for it, he blew it up? Looks like you only have a filter cage and no air filter also, unless you took it off. Make sure you check the condition of your conrod lower bearing if she was run on straight gas too. Also, if you wanna make er a bigbore since shes blown up, check out Kustom Kraft's 290 kit. It aint cheap at $490 but it's everything you need. Good luck to ya.

[money89tractors]

Thanks NINJA. Ill make sure to check the bearings and everything (i hope to god they arent bad...i dont wanna split the case)

At $500, ill pass on the big bore kit, but it might be a future investment :D thanks for the heads up.

-Phil

p.s. My friend cant pay for the rebuild since he has no money and no job and i dont feel like letting to bike sit for years before he gives me money so imma bite the bullet and just get it done.

[NINJA]

Yup dude, tough lesson learned. Friends don't let friends without money ride personal trikes.

[money89tractors]

Aint that the truth...ohwell, it should be getting a top end soon.

-Phil

[money89tractors]

Another question for you guys: I just read in a different thread about a 300R kit for the 250R. Granted the engine in the other thread was an 83, what all is included for this kit? There was a picture of the size difference between the 2 cylinders. Will this 300 head be a direct bolt on for my 250R block?

-Phil

[mrtwidster1]

Use the search function at the top of the page and u will find tons of helpful info! I have a 82 and 84 r and I knew very little about them. The guys on this forum are a great help!!

[money89tractors]

Some pictures of the cylinder and the groves...
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/th_S4020908.jpg (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/S4020908.jpg)
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/th_S4020907.jpg (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/S4020907.jpg)
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/th_S4020906.jpg (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/S4020906.jpg)

I also have a few questions:

-What is the largest bore i can get out of the stock sleeve? As of right now i think it is 1 over bore, how much more can i get out of it before it needs resleeved?
-Will a TRX250R clyinder and piston work on my bottom end? If so, will the 250r head work on the TRX cylinder?

-Phil

[Danold]

the largest bore you can go up to is +2.00 which is 72.00mm. It looks like you could get by with the next size up which is 71.25 or 1.25mm overbore.

The trx cylinder will not work with your 250r. trx is liquid cooled and yours is aircooled

[money89tractors]

Thanks Danold.

Heres some more questions:

-I would rather make this a 300R if i can find the kit for the right price. What is the stock bore on the 300R cylinders, where can i get the head and jug gasket for it
-Is the stroke on the 300R the same as the 250R jug?
-What size piston will fit the 300R jug (lets just say it is on stock bore)

Anything else you with to add would be great. thanks

-Phil

[SYKO]

dont have the numbers right off hand, but some members here have some 300 ktis they may part ways with (most need to be resleeved) and they pop up on ebay often (also most needing a resleeve) stroke is the same. Pistons well, forget honda pistons for them, I beleive I was one of the last few who may have gotten a factory 300 honda piston and it came from england. But when you send one off to get resleeved they also update the cyl and use a newer style piston as well. And there is a big bore sleeve I beleive that is avail for your stock cyl that makes it a 295? pm NINJA he seems to know about it more then I do.

[money89tractors]

Alright, small update. I got the news from the mechine shop...he started off by telling me the cylinder was egg shaped and he wasnt sure if it would come out before it would need resleeved.

I called back the next day and he had good news, the cylinder trued up and the bore is now 71.5mm. :D

Next problem was...$177 piston and rings (wiseco and Honda) :-|
Well, after some looking, i got the piston, rings, wrist pin/clips, and top end gasket set for $147!!

Next set of questions: If this piston doesnt come with break-in instructions, what is the best way to break it in? What oil mixture will be best to run during break-in and afterwards.

Any other tips would be appreciated.

-Phil

[1upfront]

Run at least a tank of fuel through the bike before you decide to run it hard and use 20:1 fuel oil ratio.

[money89tractors]

It was Christmas today!! Finally got my piston and stuff from ProCycle. Bunch of nice guys there. I got my 71.5mm Wiseco piston, rings, wrist pin and clips, and my complete top end gasket set for less than Wiseco wanted for the piston alone. Wiseco wanted $177 for the piston, i got all my stuff for $147 Shipped to my door in 5 business days!

Plus i got some sweet stickers! :D

now ive just got to take the piston to the machinist, and let him make sure the clearances are correct.

- Phil

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/th_S4020945.jpg (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/S4020945.jpg)
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/th_S4020944.jpg (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/S4020944.jpg)
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/th_S4020943.jpg (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/S4020943.jpg)
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/th_S4020941.jpg (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/S4020941.jpg)
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/th_S4020937.jpg (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/S4020937.jpg)
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/th_S4020940.jpg (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/S4020940.jpg)
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/th_S4020925.jpg (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/money89tractors/ATC200R/S4020925.jpg)

[3Wheelers4Life]

nice deal on that piston kit. stickers are the best part! :D anything else you plan on doing to it?

[money89tractors]

Well, i scored a pair of ITP Holeshots on gold aluminum EX rims for $75. I need hubs still (on the cheap). Im looking at an extended swinger for $100, as long as it will work on my trike.

I still need to know the best way to break this thing in. I was told to ride for a full tank of 20:1 mix at no more then half throttle, varying the RPM the whole time. Anything else?

-Phil

[money89tractors]

Well, today i planned to pick up my cylinder after he checked the clearances. I figured it would take all of 20 minutes for him to hone the cylinder to spec and so on, but no...he said he would TRY to get done by monday :(

I had planned to put it together and break it in today. oh well.

-Phil

[money89tractors]

So, i started putting the R together but ran into a problem...i cannot get the 2nd wrist pin clip in. Ive tried and tried and tried, but nothing. Is there a special way to do this? special tool or somethin?

-Phil

[300rman]

I will check on the registering deal. They just passed a law here in indiana where ATVs can be registered for public road use. Secondary roads only of course.



looks like i may move to indiana!

[81Rmachine]

If you want to grab a couple horses while you got the motor apart I'd mill the head. I think mine is about .030 over which is also what I did to my dirt bike. 6.1:1 Is I think what they are stock which is pathetic. Besides it'll have a better Idle, you should hear mine it has that really sharp ting sound. good thing is these motors are extremely easy to work on and are easy to get more power out of, Gotta love 2-strokes.

[money89tractors]

Any idea on an easy way to get these wrist pin clips in?

-Phil

[money89tractors]

So, i got the trike together, ready to fire it off...kick it over a couple times and it fires, but wont stay running.

Its burning the fuel, because its smoking when you kick it over, but itll over run for a couple seconds, then die. When you give it gas, it wants to die, but when you let it try to idle, its tries to keep running. I cleaned the carb, put in new reeds, what more could it be?

-Phil

[masonryman13]

change the spark plug!! i went through 5 plugs after a rebuild b/c i used some 2 stroke oil as lube when i reassembled. btw- 20:1 is REALLY RICH. i use 32:1 on break-ins, then drop it 40:1. Just my 2 cents...........

[350xBomb]

Dude I am in the exact same boat as you. Never let a four stroker fill yer bike.

How was yer bottom end? con rod bearing and all. I caught mine before it seized and dont have nearly the cylinder damage you did, so i figure if yer bottom end is ok then I shouldnt have too much to worry about. plus my bottom end was rebuilt pretty recently.

[money89tractors]

My bottom end is in great shape. I am going to clean the carb again, adjust the floats, and get a couple new plugs.

I also need to pull the jug off again because it didnt seal in on corner (the area around he stud is dirty and not letting it seat completely)

-Phil

[money89tractors]

I cleaned out the carb and adjusted the floats. It will not fire over and run for a good while, then die. It sounds like it has a lot of lag on the top end. I pulled the main jet, it has 158 stamped on it. Could this be too small of a jet for the fresh top end(71.5mm)?

-Phil

[money89tractors]

Can anyone give me any idea at all? i Really want this going before TF!! (if its not running by then im just bringing it and hoping some of you nice fellas will help me out.).

-Phil

[money89tractors]

Well, i found the problem. Since everyone here had so many guess's...

The CDI box is bad, it works long enough to fire the engine and run for a minute, then it fails. I put another CDI box off an '04 Kazuma 110cc quad (cheap 4 wheeler) and it ran amazing; until the R fried that CDI box. The box was well used before i got to it, so i ordered a new one from the Kazuma company (honda's CDI boxs and made by the same company, yet the Kazuma CDI box is $10 shipped and the Honda box is close to $70 + shipping)

-Phil

[money89tractors]

I sold this trike 3 weeks ago for $700. I needed some parts (sprockets, clutch was slipping, front bearings installed) but it ran very strong.

The kid i sold it to has managed to blow it up. I havent been able to look at the bike as i cant leave the house still, but from what he says, the crank is shot. Ive been looking around on ebay and many many other sites and cant seem to find a crank for an 81-84 250R? Anyone know where i can get one?

-Phil

[Brad200X]

Its pretty unlikely that you need a new crank. Probably just need a rod kit, and crank bearings.