My latest invention-Helmet camera footage on YOUTUBE, check it out!

[Billy Golightly]

So as some of you know, I've been thinking/planning on a new project bike. Haven't had near the time to work on it lately like I'd like to, but I've gotten this far.

The project is of course, the rolling insane asylum that will be my 500R drag bike motor in an 85 250R chassis setup for flat track racing. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, its already been well established I am nuts. Save the calls to the mental ward, even they have given up all hope for me.

Those familiar with the 500R conversions using the 250R frames know that there has to be mods to the bottom of the frame rails to make the engine cradle fit better. Theres obviously several different ways (all well debated, BTW) but the fact of the matter is you gotta work on it. Anymore, when I look at projects, or problems, I attempt to find the most effective way to use my time. Less time I have to use on other stupid *Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited* gives me more opportunities to focus on whatever I'm doing, its just more productivity for me. So... as the frame was sitting on my steel table, with the 500R motor looking in it, all I could imagine was having to pull the motor in and out of the frame a hundred different times, trying to turn the frame over and prop it up to cut out the frame rails, do any kind of welding, grinding etc being a total pain in the ass. So, I thought to myself, "I need a way where I can hold this thing pretty much full assembled, at a decent height, and have the ability to turn it or move it into whatever position I need at that moment..." And this is what I've come up with.

The 250R frame, if the sub frame is level the back bone is at a 25 degree angle, so it had to be mounted at that same angle for it to set fairly level. Mine is sagging slightly at the moment, but I'm pretty sure if I just run some weld beads up the backside of the square tubing it'll pull it back up some. You'd be surprised how good weld is for doing stuff like that, straightening (or warping) material back. The orange face plate is actually from an engine stand (you can see the remains of it under the table in a picture or two I think), and its got holes drilled all the way around it, I think theres 8. So the frame can be rotated, and locked, into 8 different positions. The face plate is held to the frame with 2 bushings that fit down into the steering neck (bearing races removed) with a large piece of all thread stock, and 2 pieces of angle iron holding it all together. It does, unfortunately, twist a little side to side when you go to hold the frame side ways, so I'm liable to add another support brace to a bolt mount on the frame or perhaps another piece of plate to act as a wedge so it can't twist any in the bushings. The whole outfit, even though it isn't even welded all that well right now (haha, my stick welding is near pathetic) its pretty sturdy. I was standing out on the end of the sub frame, it did flex a little bit but not a whole lot. I'm pretty confident you could have pretty much an entire 250R suspended in the air like this minus the front end and not have any problems once everything is hooked together all the way.

[Billy Golightly]

Heres the last pictures. I haven't even got to really use it yet, the 500 motor is just sitting in there, but I can already tell its gonna be SUPER nice for working on stuff. Especially when it comes time to weld in the new bottom frame rail tubes, and making the pipe.

Oh yeah, I also forgot to mention, that you could, if you modified the old engine stand, make the entire thing completely portable. It was just to low for my taste when using the roll around engine stand, but it wouldn't be hard at all to make a whole new roller stand or just add some height to an existing one. I just mounted it to my table cause its ultra beefy, and pretty much in the center of my work space. Vice is handy, press, lathe, mill, welder, torch, band saw, pipe bender, etc all within about 10-15ft.

[edog]

OMG you missed your meds.:crazy:


Good luck on your new project.:w00t:

[dizasterzrfun69]

what are you doing with the 500 roller? :D

[Billy Golightly]

Remaining in my arsenal for when I can afford another more worked over motor :)

[dizasterzrfun69]

Remaining in my arsenal for when I can afford another more worked over motor :)


lol thats what i figured. I wanna do a cr500 conversion pretty bad but i need the $$$$$$ to buy a cr500 donor, i have most if not all the 250r parts i'd need.

[Billy Golightly]

I'm actually figuring, that after I get done using the drag motor for mockup I might put it back in the drag bike chassis and try and find a later model, slightly tamer motor to go in the ATC frame. I'm not sure though, I can't wussify it to much :D

[Bryan Raffa]

who messed up the shop and put everything away??!!:w00t: :lol:

good idea billy ..perfict for the trike fabber!

[Eric250R]

Sweet, glad to see you went with the 500 for the flat tracker...:beer :w00t: :w00t:

[Louis Mielke]

As usual billy thats just tits. I wonder if you could do something similar with an engine block stand. Hmmm...

[madmanwithmouse]

umm...it...is...a "engine block stand" :)

[ProCarbine2k1]

Still planning on a cr125/200x conversion?

[Billy Golightly]

Stripped the flat tracker down, sitting in the stand now. This is more like how I envisioned it when I was thinking up the way to hold it. More as I get to it.

[Billy Golightly]

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010175.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010174.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010173.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010170.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010169.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010167.jpg


Well here it is. Hacked off the bottom frame rails, and made some more adjustments. This frame stand has been an absolute God-send, being able to just hold the thing upside down like this has been extremely nice.

So after removing the bottom frame rails, here is the first problem I encountered:

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Problem-Area1.jpg

I can't remember the exact measurement off hand, but the distance between the swingarm pivot and this bottom cross member where the suspension linkage mount is, is considerably less then the point from the rear motor mount to the bottom of the 500 motor. I have room in this picture, cause the head is off the motor and the head stud is resting on the headstay mount on the frame. So its WAAAY tall in the frame. I have for the time being now heated and "mushed" this area of the frame in a little, but when I plan on doing is actually grinding out half of that tube, or however much I need, and then welding a piece of flat sheet metal across it so its like a D shape. That should give me all the room I need there.

[Louis Mielke]

Looking good billy. I bet it will make a good drag racer too if the way the 250 hooked up on the drag strip is any indicator.

[Bryan Raffa]

that's So... gonna screw on the track.. that must be where all the good drag bikes go when they retire..:naughty: :Bounce YAMAHONDAMAN

[Billy Golightly]

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010180.jpg

Temporary mushed in frame area, this will be ground out, and have a piece of flat sheet metal welded into place to make it more sightly and give me a little bit of extra room. You can also see, the bushing I've made for mock up, that will properly align the CR500 motor over to the left side of the frame where the chain and sprocket will ine up correctly. The width of the CR500 rear mount that the swingarm pivot mount goes through is roughly 74mm, and the distance between the middle of the swingarm on the 250R is about a 100mm with the bushing dust caps, so I needed about a 26mm spacer ( I cut it a little long, so that I can trim off of it if its to long).

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010179.jpg

Next was head modification. Because of how close it was to the top of the frame it was necessary to remove the head stay mount to get it to fit. I don't think I'll be able to take the head off with the motor in the frame but it should fit without notching the frame or anything. I do not, at this time, plan on using the head stay mount. But, I might make a new one, shorter, and closer to the head in the future.



http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010171.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010177.jpg

And then, here is, to me, the most important thing. And that is making sure the center of the sprocket shaft and the swingarm pivot bolt are on a perfectly straight and level plane. This was my first thing, making sure I could get it correct. This to me had to be done first, followed by chain alignment before anything else should be started. The pipe, radiators, kicker, other motor mounts, all the rest of that *Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited* can be adjusted and changed and made to work. This alignment between the sprocket shaft and the pivot join, plus the chain alignment are capitol. They can't be wrong, everything else is second to them.



So thats pretty much where I'm at now. I'm going to get the pivot area buttoned down next, and probably grind flat/weld that cross brace the linkage bracket is on before I move onto anything else. The bottom frame rails will pretty much be the last thing I do, because if I do need to move anything else around I don't want to already be locked into those. The pipe is going to be veeerrrrrrrrrrrrrry interesting, I know that.

[Billy Golightly]

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010184.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010186.jpg

Heres the bottom cross member after I've ground down a nice flat side on it, to cover back up with the piece of sheet metal as I described earlier.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010191.jpg

And heres my weapon of choice to get that job done. Sure as hell beats one of those little puney grinders, this thing actually REMOVES metal without taking a week to do it :lol:

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010192.jpg

Initial test fit of the piece I'm welding over. A little bit thinner then I would have liked (being .065, ) But, good enough.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010198.jpg

Weld plate tacked over the area now in the center.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010199.jpg

Another view of the weld plate. After it was tacked down, I heated it with the torch and massaged it to a little bit better contour where it fit the frame tube better then it did before.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010202.jpg

Well, this WAS a bottom view (because the thing was upside down in my stand) but its actually the upper side of the frame where the shock linkage brackets are. This was another picture after I had heated and molded it to the contour.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010204.jpg

A view of it on my most ingenious stand.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010210.jpg

Just finished welding the bottom and sides of the plate.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010214.jpg

Next weld area after being stainless wire brushed thoroughly and then wiped clean with starting fluid on a rag to remove any dust or other crap on the surface.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010215.jpg

Another view of the top weld area, cleaned and prepared.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010225.jpg

Another view. This camera is getting hard as hell to take decent pictures with. How about we start a "Fund Billy a new digitial camera" campaign? :D

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010219.jpg

Here we go. Got my chair, got my TIG torch, got my welding rods sitting on the subframe, got my fire control pedal, we're about ready to rock and roll.

[Billy Golightly]

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010221.jpg

Last one before I start welding.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010231.jpg

POOF, there it is. This stuff was a little weird to weld. Beads could have looked a lot better.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010233.jpg

Another view of it now completely surrounded with weld. This is all going to be blended with a grinder and hopefully when I'm done you wont even be able to tell what I did there.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010236.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010240.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010239.jpg

These picture gives you a good idea of the clearance I gained. I think this is about the best you could do and still use that bottom rail, I mean without totally re-doing it and making a new one and making all new tabs for the shock linkage which would be a real real pain in the ass especially since the pegs mount out on the ends of this tube. Thats why its not flattend all the way out to the ends, it sort of ramps back up to the regular height. I'm fixing to go back over to the shop, I will probably work on grinding that down and trying to blend it. Might also set the motor back in it and see how it looks now with the cut head too.

[SWIGIN]

not to shaby


you know, with a new coat of powder coat those welds wouldnt look near as bad as most of the factory welds....man they suck


i know this is a roundy round bike but just to let other know if this was to be for MX that pipe will bow in toward the motor from the presure of the shock linkage.

for MX this pipe should be replaced with a curved thick peice of chromeoly...maybe .120 wall

[200x Basket]

looking good but i am not sure why you cut the head mount off. If you are changing the lower tubes as you are you could have used the STOCK head stay mounts and bolted them to the stock cr500 head. it works fine. the good thing about that is you could have rebuilt the top end in frame. its not to late to reconsider. it would also make a lower center of gravity for racing.

[Louis Mielke]

I think Billy's more concerned with perfect swing arm pivot point to output shaft alignment.

To get this perfect its almost necessary to change that lower tube.

[Billy Golightly]

Correct. I could have lowered the motor enough to fit the head stay in there, but the sprocket and the swingarm pivot would not have been level. I've got pics with it in the frame and a bunch of other stuff test fitted to it. Uploading now.

[Jason Hall]

Billy, I would also suggest you hang the motor from the origional top mount. It makes the pipe fit lots better, and plug changing Is easy. The Intake boot fits just like the stock motor.

[Billy Golightly]

Jason, thats very interesting. Your sprocket and pivot alignment is very good, and you have room to use the head stay. For some odd reason, I do not. I'll be posting pics here in just a second.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010007.jpg

[SYKO]

Billy, I would also suggest you hang the motor from the origional top mount. It makes the pipe fit lots better, and plug changing Is easy. The Intake boot fits just like the stock motor.

sorry billy gota hijack for a min, Jason, if you have the motor hanging with the stock head mount do you have the dimple or recess the area on the lower linkage bar? (what billy cut out and welded) still?? thats alll....please continue

[Louis Mielke]

Looks like you might want to drop it down a hair Billy. Almost looks as if the output shaft is a hair too high.

[200x Basket]

Billy

yours is to high. you ahve to take the drop into account

[Billy Golightly]

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010001.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010003.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010004.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010005.jpg

Carb fitment is excellent. I'll have to run a foam clamp-on air filter but thats not any problem. The shock reservoir can be loosened in its clamp and even slid back a little bit further for some additional room.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010002.jpg

Shows engine offset in the frame for chain alignment. Many people don't know or realise it but the 250R motors are offset in the frame like this too. Its weird but its jus the way they are made.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010007.jpg

Another shot of the carb, and part of the motor in the frame.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010008.jpg

If I keep the angle I have now, this looks to be the next major hurdle to tackle.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010009.jpg

Spark plug fits in, and the boot slips on and off pretty easily luckily.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010011.jpg

Another shot of the exhaust/frame angle and also shows how the double water necks on the head are gonna have to be angled outward for the hoses to fit since they are directly under the frame now.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010016.jpg

Another good shot of the spark plug and also the waternecks.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010023.jpg

Last one of the plug and the waternecks.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010019.jpg

Chain alignment. Looks close now, but my preliminary analysis tell me I'm going to need to shim the sprocket in towards the carrier a slight amount.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010020.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010021.jpg

Space between the bottom of the motor and the bottom cross member. That peice of flat steel is just a wedge to hold the thing into position. After looking at the first picture some, it appears the motor does in fact need to come down some more to make the alignment with the sprocket and pivot joint level. I thought I had it pretty close but I guess it was deceiving. Easily changed, theres nothing holding it in there right now really.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010027.jpg

In the stand. At Home. Being modified.

[Billy Golightly]

Yeah, after looking at the close up pics, you guys are right. It needs to drop down some more. Wonder why it looked level in the shop...probably the angle the thing is on the stand.

[200x Basket]

thats what this place is about. now buy a new head and get to work :)

[Billy Golightly]

Luckily that chopped one is not he original one I ran it with :)

Do you have a pic of yours hanging from the headstay too 200x_Basket?

[200x Basket]

nope :( i did it similiar to you. I am llooking at buying a new head now :) i smashed the lower tubes until the exhasut cleared and then welded in a 1/4" skid plate. strong but not the best way.

[Billy Golightly]

Gotcha. I'm not sure if mine can come down far enough to use the headstay, even with the frame flattening I did there. If I have to do anymore I'm thinking about cutting the hole thing out and maybe just moving it further back? Hell I dunno, I'll have to look at it more in person tomorrow evening probably.

[200x Basket]

get jason to post some close ups. the stock mount works well. I would have done it that way but i did not have a bender at the time.

[Jason Hall]

syko, I did have to knotch the lower tube. I sliced It and welded a piece of angle I the opening. Here Is one of the pic's from Brandons 500 build thread. I also welded a gussot under the rear shock link to add strength to the knotched lower tube.

[Billy Golightly]

I think I got enough cut out now. The motor is sitting in there and the headstay can come down about 2 inches from the old headstay mount on the frame. I plan on rousting up some angle iron and do like Jason did, since after putting the motor back in the frame it appears if I cover it with flat plate again I still wont have enough room. On the plus side the pipe looks to be real easy to make fit now (85-88 style). Thanks a lot for the input guys, saved me a ton of future headache I think.

[Billy Golightly]

Got more cut out, I think enough finally...

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010002-1.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010004-1.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010009-1.jpg

So heres how far I have it cut out now. Its down into the lower shock linkage mount pretty far. I was trying to avoid that but I guess it was inevtiable.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010022.jpg

.125 thick angle iron I'm using, like what Jason hall used/suggested.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010026.jpg

My plan is to actually weld a small bead down the backside of this, and then take the remaining material and bend it over backwards towards the shock link, weld it again to give it some additional rigidity.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010034.jpg

Motor in the frame, with the original head stay. Its got room to come down about an inch, inch and a quarter or so before it starts to hit on the back at the notched area. I think thats about all I'm gonna get out of it. Not really happy with the results I'm getting so far with the way I'm doing this mod, but I'll just keep plugging a long and hopefully it gets better.



And a couple shots of my shop heater...

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010008-1.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010007-1.jpg

[FPMXer]

Gotta love the muck pot shop heater. What do ya burn in that thing? The monster trike is coming along nicely.

[Louis Mielke]

Common its freakin florida how cold can it be? :)

[Billy Golightly]

Hey man it was below 30 here this morning! Thats effin cold for down here. Normally we burn old motoroil in the heater, but we had a lot of it picked up recently, so we're out. I burnt the last 3 gallons I had yesterday from a recent oil change.

[Dirtcrasher]

Looking good Billie!!

I just had a thought.... It seems like everything is based on the swinger pivot point which is essentially two side plates welded to the frame tubes. Would it be at all possible to remove those plates and reposition or fabricate those plates higher?? So that the swinger pivot point and back motor mount were maybe 20MM or so higher?? The front of the motor could still tip down to clear the exhaust and the head stay hopefully would clear too but I'm not sure about the carburetor if it were raised a bit with a little more angle too. Of course that raises the swinger the same 20MM and changes the linkage somewhat but I'm not sure if that would affect anything.

I guess you could easily check it out by using a .250 rod (that of course wouldn't give you the 20MM offset but I'm unsure what it needs anyhow) and using it as the swinger bolt pivot point offsetting the engine as high as you could, mirroring what would be a raised side plate.

I've never been in the 500 club but I just wondered if this would be a way out of chopping out that lower rail.

[Billy Golightly]

DirtCrasher,

When my dad and I were first originally looking at this, that is one of the first things he said. I checked it out a little bit. My main concern was changing the shock linkage ratios when I nixed that idea. I also don't think the head would have been able to fit in then if you raised it up that way, although it might have if you just shortened the headstay mount without cutting it off entirely like I did on the one head.

Coincidently, after I decided to go ahead and do this, and got to the point where I am now, I got to thinking about the suspension linkage, and thought to myself: "Gee, I guess I could just run a no-link TT shock and swingarm, which would solve all the problems with the leverage on this weakened cross member..." Hindsight is 20/20 but that would have also solved the change in ratio with the way you suggested :lol:

[Billy Golightly]

Boy I took so many pictures, the camera has an awfully hard time showing the depth of the angle iron. It started out looking really crappy but the blending is getting better. More pics tomorrow...

[Billy Golightly]

OK Guys, I got the new spacer made for the rear swingarm pivot area, that will have the chain alignment correct. I'd like to get one of those laser guided chain adjusters to check its accuracy with eventually, just don't have the money right now to shell out $100 on something I'm only gonna use one time especially since I still need to get the inch and an eighth size dies for my pipe bender.

The angle iron in the bottom cross member did the trick, I can get the engine low enough now. Its actually resting on the frame in all of these pictures because I don't have a headstay mount (yet) holding it up, so it'll be ever so slightly higher in the frame when that gets done. Just enough to keep it off the frame in the back where its notched out at.

One thing I'm concerned about after hooking the chain up, is how much drag there is on the chain guide when teh suspension isn't loaded even with a big 15tooth sprocket on it. It was much worse with a 13. Like it (the engine) was slightly to low in the frame. Perhaps by the time I get the headstay hooked onto it, it won't be bad. This is mainly a flat track machine but I'd like to have the option of running some TT races with it in the future, so I can't have anything dragging or tight when the suspension does get unloaded.

Pics to come shortly Xowner

[Billy Golightly]

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010062.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010065.jpg

Engine back in the frame now, nearly at the exact mounting area. As I mentioned is actually a teeny bit low in the frame right now compared to what it will be once the headstay is constructed and its actually hanging by it.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010070.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010073.jpg

And heres the infamous sprocket/swingarm pivot alignment area. Much improved compared to what it was.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010066.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010103.jpg

And I hadn't thought of this till I was chatting with atc tim, but in the current configuration it might be tricky to get the shifter off since there isn't enough room for the bolt to come out :lol: I'll be notching that section of the frame to allow the bolt to slide on out. That could have been a real PITA if Tim hadn't of told me that, thanks for the save man!

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010079.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010080.jpg

Some good pictures here showing the room I gained under that frame joint by the exhaust to let it fit now without having to change any of that. This also makes the changes to use the CR500 pipe a WHOLE lot easier to do then compared to what it was. Also you can see plenty of head stay room now, again, its a little bit low compared to what it will be but I will from the looks of things still have room to take the head on and off with the motor still in the frame which is a major plus. Taking the spark plug in and out is no big deal, however getting the boot on and off is looking to be a little bit tricky. I might need a different wire and a "shorty" plug boot perhaps.


And now just for some more misc. pictures.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010110.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010093.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010077.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010076.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010068.jpg

[Billy Golightly]

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010111.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/P1010112.jpg

And the last 2 pictures of my spacer I made to get the chain and sprocket alignment dialed in for the time being. The distance between the pivot joints on the 250R swingarm, with the bushing caps is roughly 100mm. The rear motor mount section of the CR500 motor is roughly 74mm wide. I utilized a spacer of about 27.5mm in width to account for the compaction between the bushings and the dust seals, and its got it pretty spot on. Like I said, I'd like to get one of those laser guided chain adjusters to check it out for sure eventualy.

[200x Basket]

for the shifter get a 250r shifter and cut the splined mount off. turn it over and weld the shifter back to it. the aluminum cr500 shifter will be to short.

[Billy Golightly]

Will it? I already shortened that one about 3/4 of an inch for the CR500 conversion because the pegs ended up being mounted further back.

[Louis Mielke]

Jeeze Billy, how come your not ridding it yet? lol j/king

[Billy Golightly]

Hahaha, I want to, believe me. Actually after the head stay bracket is finished (probably 4-5 hours), I'll be able to start on the pipe, which should make some real results.

[Billy Golightly]

I did the headstay bracket today out of 3/16ths steel plate. (pics coming). But I think I got it a little to high again, the sprocket/swinger pivot line has went up again. Although, it might end up being OK, maybe there wont be as much of a hump in the chain from riding over the chain guide like there was.

[Billy Golightly]

OK here we go!

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Head%20Stay/P1010002.jpg

I made these headstay brackets today, mostly just by eyeball and free hand. I started off with a thin sheet of that white cardboard that you can make posters out of (not the foam ones, the other thinner style) and just kind of held a piece of it up in the position I wanted it and trimmed it until I got a shape I kind of liked. Then I traced that out onto some 3/16ths steel plate and cut one out with my plasma cutter . Handy machine and nice to have, but looking back I think I would have rather saved that money and put it toward a nice new Miller TIG welder. Continuing on, after it was cut out and dressed up a little bit with the bench grinder I C-clamped it onto the frame, and took a center punch from my set (the type that fits multiple sized holes, you set it in the hole and the end of it has a point, gives you an exact center. Extremely handy tool.) and did the 2 holes on the frame, and then pried the motor up into the position I wanted, careful to make sure that I didn't get it to far up where I couldn't get my cylinder head off, but also to make sure that it was up off the back of the frame adequately. It was here I noticed, that the headstay off of the engine was actually off set to the left, I had a probably 1/4inch gap between my bracket and where it was suppose to bolt to the motor. That didn't stop me from running the center punch through there and getting a good mark on it though.

After all 3 holes were marked, I went to the drill press and drilled a small pilot hole in all 3 mount holes, and then went back through and re did them to the proper size. Upon test fit I was pleasantly surprised, it was perfectly aligned and I didn't have to longate any of the holes or anything. So I went back to the 3/16ths sheet with my thin cardboard template and cut another one. Didn't come out quite as well to start with, lots of dressing up and smoothing on the grinder to make up for it. This time I sort of half-assed it and copied the holes from the first bracket onto the second one instead of holding it up to the frame and running the center punches through the holes on the frame and the head like I did on the first one (and should have done on this one). It ended up being a little bit off when I finished drilling it. Not much, but it wasn't right the first time like it was suppose to be :mad:

Next, I didn't have any short enough bolts to clamp the brackets onto the frame from both sides, so I had to make some :lol: I found some longer ones and hacksawed the ends off, files the end to make it more rounded, and ran a nut back and fourth over it a few times, good as new. After I made four of those I got the brackets bolted to the frame. The right one is the one that had the near 1/4inch gap between it and the head, and the left one was being pushed out away from the frame about that far by the head. I considered making spacers, using washers, etc. In the interest of weight reduction :lol: and the fact that I seem to enjoy doing things the hard way, I opted to bolt everything together best as I could now, take the torch, heat the brackets and then quickly tighten them up as best as I could while it was orange so that they would bend and make the shape they needed to fit the head and the frame, without using any spacers or anything.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Head%20Stay/P1010013.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Head%20Stay/P1010006.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Head%20Stay/P1010001.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Head%20Stay/P1010004.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Head%20Stay/P1010021.jpg

It seems to have worked pretty well. I haven't taken it back apart since I did that but everything is flat up against where it needs to be. On the frame, and on the head, so I'm pretty sure I got it covered. So heres some pics with the motor hanging in the frame supported by its new head stay bracket, finally.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Head%20Stay/P1010016.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Head%20Stay/P1010022.jpg

[4cylinders]

hey, how long are the tubes for the engine cradle? I've got some old frames here with the right bend. let me know.

[KASEY]

JUST FOR ROOM,, i cut my head stay in half,, and redrilled it,, to make more room,,,,

[Billy Golightly]

Been tied up with other stuff and haven't got to work on this lately. I did start looking at the pipe fab work a few days ago and decided I wanted to go ahead and have the bottom frame rails done before I did the pipe, because I was afraid if I made the pipe fit it might be in the way of the bottom engine cradle that has to still be made. I'll be spending part of tomorrow working on it and will have some more details to post tomorrow evening.

I've also located the place I'm getting most of my brackets and corner gussets from, www.aa-mfg.com/ if your planning a frame build or anything else, there pre-made brackets will add a real nice professional looking touch to it. Most of the parts they make are already drilled for standard inch sized holes, but a few of them are available without a hole so you can drill them yourself and they also do custom orders if your lookin for anything in particular :)

[SYKO]

anything new homie?

[Billy Golightly]

Yes, I got in real late last night and didn't feel like typin anything up. The bottom frame rails have been bent compliments of Mike @ Walsh Race Craft here in town. We made some plugs yesterday to fill in the holes from the tubing at the back crossmember where I had to weld in the angle, and am in the process of making some weld in plugs for where the tubing is cut off up at the top near the exhaust. The heavy wall plug will slide in about an inch, and then be plug welded on each side to hold it in, slide the new tube over it, plug weld on each side to hold it in, and then leave a small gap between the old tube and the new tube, and get a good weld all the way around there fusing all 3 together.

[SYKO]

yea....i'll just take your word for it that you did something! lmfao! im cunfuzd

[Billy Golightly]

Aight heres the much awaited update. Progress has been slow lately, I've just been trying to take my time and not have to do anything over again. I've been held up by the fact that I needed some more chromoly tubing for the bottom cross member/motor mount I'm planning on making, and also by a way to notch the tubing where all the joints fit tight. Heres a picture of what I have in mind of the very bottom of the frame and how to hold it there:

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Bottom%20Rails%202-18-08/bottom-motor-mount-concept.jpg

I'm gonna just weld in another peice of the 1 1/8chromoly tubing in cross ways, and then weld on these http://www.aa-mfg.com/pdshop/images/aa-058-a.jpg from A&A Manufacturing. That should be a plenty sturdy enough tab, I'll have to drill it out just a teeny bit to get to the 10mm bolt size but that wont be any trouble.


Heres some pictures of the frame rails sitting in their "tentative" position. I'm pretty sure this is about where they will end up with, but subject to change of course.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Bottom%20Rails%202-18-08/P1010087.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Bottom%20Rails%202-18-08/P1010088.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Bottom%20Rails%202-18-08/P1010089.jpg

In this above picture, you can see the joint I have where I'm welding the new tube back onto the original. You can see the heavywall plug that was machined and stuck in the end of the new tube in the next picture.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Bottom%20Rails%202-18-08/P1010126.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Bottom%20Rails%202-18-08/P1010127.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Bottom%20Rails%202-18-08/P1010099.jpg


Alright next up, I ran into a small problem with the left side rail dragging on the bottom of the case around the stator cover, so I just ground out a flat spot in it, and welded some .065 sheet back over top of it to fill it in. I think this came out a lot better then pressing it in. More work though, doubt.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Bottom%20Rails%202-18-08/P1010109.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Bottom%20Rails%202-18-08/P1010115.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Bottom%20Rails%202-18-08/P1010125.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Bottom%20Rails%202-18-08/P1010110.jpg




My extra tubing for the cross brace should be here tomorrow, along with some more inch and an eight hole saws. I'm still trying to rig up a make shift tube notcher in my milling machine without changing the angle of the quill but it looks like thats what I'm gonna end up doing. I was hoping for something a little quicker in and out but I'm not gonna spend more time on it then I need to. Any questions, ask away.

[200x Basket]

looking good. you need to consider the two "angled" braces you cut out by the pro link mount. they transfer the force to the main frame rails.

[Billy Golightly]

Yeah, I've been thinking about those. What I think I'll end up doing since tubing is kind of out of the question (with how the back cross member the shock linkage attaches to is now squared off from the inside cause of the angle iron) is get like some 1/8in strap steel or bar and run from the back to the insides of the new tubing. It won't be quite as tough as it had been more tubing, but it should be comparable atleast.

[Billy Golightly]

BAH! I spent 3/4 of the day today cleaning up, freeing up, oiling down, breaking a worm gear *&%$##, removing broken worm gear, and re-assembling our old ass bridgeport milling machine just to have the phase converter *Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited* the bed on the second cut I started, and the first one was just a test, DAMN. $150 to buy one of them converter boxes I don't have to spend right now :(. Might have to go on my credit card, I hate putting money on it though.

[Louis Mielke]

Guess that was indirectly my fault billy? :(

I'm really not trying to plan B your tooling, honest I swear!

[Dirtcrasher]

BAH! I spent 3/4 of the day today cleaning up, freeing up, oiling down, breaking a worm gear *&%$##, removing broken worm gear, and re-assembling our old ass bridgeport milling machine just to have the phase converter *Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited* the bed on the second cut I started, and the first one was just a test, DAMN. $150 to buy one of them converter boxes I don't have to spend right now :(. Might have to go on my credit card, I hate putting money on it though.


Ahhh yes, the static convertor, so much fun!! I'm in the process of building a rotary convertor for my BP as we speak. People don't seem to be big fans of the static convertors....

Might just be a run cap Billy, they can be tested with an Ohmm meter (case you didn't know).

Must've been a reason SOMEONE didin't want you working!

[Billy Golightly]

Hahaha Louis, I swear I think I'm gonna start naming myself "Plan B Racing" maybe "Murphys Magic Show" or maybe something equally ridiculous for all the *Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited* that happens to me :lol:


I'm don't know anything about electrics dirt crasher, but I'm willing to bet it was a capacitor cause I heard it pop and then smelt it when it happened. Is that something that an ineptly inclined person like me can fix? :lol: I'll split it open tomorrow and have a look see.

[Dirtcrasher]

Yep, most likely the top blew off, gonna be messy.....

Just grab the same run cap with the same microfared (sp) rating.

Run caps are an alum oval cased unit. Start caps are round and usually black plastic. One boosts the start winding (to get a motor turning) and the other assists the run winding in keeping things rolling.

Even with POWER REMOVED, start caps retain voltage and it's ZAP ZAP voltage. Simply touch the leads together to discharge it or there will be a resistor across the terminals which bleeds it when not in use.

Run caps (the one you probably cooked) holds no voltage so have at it...

[Billy Golightly]

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/bottom%20motor%20mount/P1010057.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/bottom%20motor%20mount/P1010058.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/bottom%20motor%20mount/P1010061.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/bottom%20motor%20mount/P1010070.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/bottom%20motor%20mount/P1010087.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/bottom%20motor%20mount/P1010096.jpg


We rigged up the mill with a jump wire from one of the other phase converter boxes I had forgotten about on the metal shear. Its pretty much a light show waiting to happen but its workin so far. Took me a few cuts but I got the technique down pretty good now and I can make notches that are perfect fits with a less then .020 gap which makes it really nice for welding.

[Black86tri-z]

looking good! but diden't you already have a 500r?

[cr480r]

Nice welds.. looks good.. Do you plan to add some gussets?

[Billy Golightly]

Yeah I did but it was based on the CR frame and the geometry for doing anything but drag racing wasn't really good.

I'll be adding some gussets in the rear, from where the cross member the shock linkage hooks up to the new cross member I made for the bottom motor mounts.

[Epix FQX]

looks good though i think getting the motor out of the frame will be a pain to do.

[Billy Golightly]

Its not that bad. If you take the plug out and all the motor mounts loose it comes out with a little wiggling. The next mount in the front under the exhaust pipe will definitely have to be removable though or your right it will be a pain.

[sandman829]

Hay Billy a drillpres with a tilt table makes a great tube notcher. Just thought I would let you know as a back up plan.:lol:

[SYKO]

WHATS da werd berd?

[Billy Golightly]

The entire bottom cradle is all welded and done. I will come back and add some corner gussets later on. I'm focusing on the pipe right now, thats really the only major thing left.

[Billy Golightly]

SCHWWWWWWWWWWWWWING!!!


http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/3-9-08%20Roller%20on%20table/P1020074.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/3-9-08%20Roller%20on%20table/P1020072.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/3-9-08%20Roller%20on%20table/P1020065.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/3-9-08%20Roller%20on%20table/P1020068.jpg


Pipe is in the middle of construction now. I chopped up an FMF pipe today and after extensive testing and checking I decided that it expanded in size to quick to use, the portion that goes between the frame and the front tire was to large and was going to either rub or hit the ground before the frame no matter what I did, so I'm back to using the modded DG pipe and I'm pretty sure I'll be able to get it to fit. I will post some more pics here in the next few days.


Deadline is March 29th first SFTL Race!


HOPEFULLY be done atleast a few days before that to get it all dialed in though. I'm gonna have to be kickin it into overdrive here in the next few days.

[200x Basket]

looks killer!!!!

why is the fmf hitting? because the trike is so low?

[Billy Golightly]

I think its a combination of that and just how it gets big so quick. I'll get some pics comparing the sections today if I can remember. Yours doesn't rub any when you fully compress the front end? What size tire are you running?

[200x Basket]

it compresses all the way and never hits. it is a 23" front max. where are you cutting at? i had to make several but i barely removed any pipe at all.

[jeffatc250r]

Looks good Billy, i like how your rails are nice and tight to the motor, i ran out of patience and said good enough!

[Billy Golightly]

I cut mine at all the factory weld seems and was just planning on twisting it into shape. I spent a lot of time working on the DG today and its gonna look pretty ghetto half stamped half cone like sectioning, we'll see how it turns out. Good practice pipe if nothing else :lol:

Thanks Jeff. Mike @ Walsh Race Craft is the one that bent the tubes up for me, he just eyeballed it and got it really nice. I've got a bender myself but don't have the die sets, and the 1 1/8th set is sold out at every retailer, they have to be made at the factory and its like 6 week wait time on em, so thats mainly why I had Mike do those for me.

[Billy Golightly]

The pipe is almost done, I got like 3-4 more cuts left to make and then I think I'll have it. I screwed up pretty hardcore on a few of the cuts and left some big gaps to fill so its got some terrible looking places on it and then in other places looks pretty freakin good :lol: Honestly I think I've probably spent more time doing this then I needed to, but I was kind of interested in doing it the hard way so I could learn a little bit more about it.

[Louis Mielke]

hate to sound like edoggy but PICS!!!!!!

[Billy Golightly]

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Pipe%20construction%203-12-08/P1010015.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Pipe%20construction%203-12-08/P1010018.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Pipe%20construction%203-12-08/P1010029.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Pipe%20construction%203-12-08/P1010010.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Pipe%20construction%203-12-08/P1010019.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Pipe%20construction%203-12-08/P1010024.jpg

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Pipe%20construction%203-12-08/P1010027.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Pipe%20construction%203-12-08/P1010032.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Pipe%20construction%203-12-08/P1010040.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Pipe%20construction%203-12-08/P1010034.jpg


http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Pipe%20construction%203-12-08/P1010021.jpg

Hacked up FMF pipe, looks like an anaconda or something :lol:

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Pipe%20construction%203-12-08/P1010041.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Pipe%20construction%203-12-08/P1010042.jpg


The tools of th trade.

[Louis Mielke]

IMPRESSIVE. lol

[200x Basket]

that looks labor intensive :lol:

here is my 87 fmf.. do you want to get rid of that anaconda snake?

http://www.3wheeler.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=8869&stc=1&d=1138759284

only part cut out to the left of the tape line
http://www.3wheeler.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=8867&stc=1&d=1138759002

removed the big dings
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/LuvNStarGazn/3wheeler/3.jpg

you can see where i cut the factory weld and twisted it lower.
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/LuvNStarGazn/3wheeler/4.jpg

i got the mandrel bent pipe for the stinger off of a seller on ebay

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/LuvNStarGazn/3wheeler/6.jpg


I wonder if the flat track tank made the build harder?

[84honda200s]

billy you sure can weld !!! them are some danm nice welds. they make me drool !!! anyway man looking great. i like how it sits real low and that front tire kicks butt too. i guess all i can say is..... WOW !!! im liking it.

[Billy Golightly]

Hey Basket,

I attached a pic, to show what I was having problems with on the FMF. The FMF curves a lot more over to the left side of the frame and engine before it starts to come back around under the exhaust port, and that makes that portion of the pipe a larger diameter because of it tapering out. You can see the difference between the FMF and the DG where I took that side shot on mine. On the DG, where it comes back around and goes under the exhaust port, it doesn't stick out any further then the top, they are like on exactly the same plane. What size tubing did you use for the stinger? The DG and FMF originally had 2 different sizes, the DG is like 1 1/8th and the FMF is like 1/4.

84honda200s,

believe me man, theres a lot of welds on that pipe that will be covered up AS SOON as I get done with it :lol: I'm not use to working with sheet metal and stuff that thing at all, its got a bit of a learning curve to it especially filling in the gaps and *Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited* in the places where I didn't get my cuts made right, PITA royally.

[Billy Golightly]

And here it is now, almost done. I just gotta find and bend up a stinger tube, change the diameter of the pipe going into the silencer, make some hangers, and finish all the welds up. Come to think of it now, that doesn't sound almost done does it :lol:

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Pipe%20almost%20done%203-12-08/P1010040.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Pipe%20almost%20done%203-12-08/P1010027.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Pipe%20almost%20done%203-12-08/P1010024.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Pipe%20almost%20done%203-12-08/P1010026.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Pipe%20almost%20done%203-12-08/P1010029.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Pipe%20almost%20done%203-12-08/P1010012.jpg



I had a lot of fun actually building this. And I only goofed up real bad on about 3 sections in the middle, its easy to tell which ones, everywhere else the bends/cuts/contours actually flow relatively well, theres no real sharp edges or corners except for that screwed up part. I'm sure the next one will be much better, I learned a lot on what to and what not to do on this one.

[max]

Did you talk to 3leg about his pipe that he made for his old 500 which is now atctims. He only had about 3 mabey 4 cuts.

[Billy Golightly]

Max from what I understand that pipe was something they found on ebay, and they don't really know who made it

[Dirtcrasher]

Darn good for a prototype.

I think the 2 best tools for making your own pipe would be a vertical band saw and a 10" or larger stationary disc sander with a 60 grit disc. A few times I had to make something similar to a 3" thin walled pipe at my machinist job. That disc allowed me to tweak the angles yet I could still keep the cut edges perfect flat which made mating them and welding them a breeze.

Just a thought......

[Billy Golightly]

For sure DirtCrasher. I actually have a nice (OLD, OLD OLD OLD) vertical band saw, but we changed out the electric motor on it and turns to fast now, plus it needs some new guides desperately. I'm already eyeballing cheap pipes on ebay to make another better one.

On a side note, I ordered a few things this afternoon that'll hopefully get me about where I need to be. One thing I forgot to get was a new shifter cause the old stock aluminum one I had shortned for use in the CR500 chassis setup is way to short to use in the ATC frame with the foot peg configuration.

[Louis Mielke]

I may have a pipe for you billy. Let me get my covers and stuff swaped this weekend and I should be able to let you know. Its my old fmf gnarly. i don't think I'll need it with my changes.

[Billy Golightly]

I made a hanger for it today re-using one of the OEM Honda rubber exhaust hangers. Kind of in an odd place, but what the hell, its sturdy as hell once its tightened down. The only thing that will suck is trying to take the pipe off if its hot cause you gotta snake your arm around between it and the radiator and it'd be near impossible to do without getting yourself burnt if it was hot. I was thinking about adding another hanger at the back near the silencer but after doing this one and tightening down the bolts I don't think it'll be necessary at all.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/P1010001.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/P1010002.jpg

Drilled a hole into the gas tank mount and then bolted the rubber exhaust hanger to it with a stainless allenhead 8mm bolt, complete with a lock nut.


http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/P1010003.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/P1010008.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/P1010018.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/P1010019.jpg

On the pipe itself, first I cut a pretty large (by comparison) piece of 1/8 strap material I had laying around and ground all the paint and rust off of it. I then eyeballed where It needed to go and held it in place flat up against the pipe by a high strength magnet while I tack welded it. The purpose of this piece of flat strap welded over top of the pipe is to give the mount itself additional rigidty and to prevent it from pulling out of the thin gauge pipe material. Keep in mind, when I tacked it, it was flat only on one corner and did not follow the contour of the pipe at all. Once I had it hooked good in that corner though I took the pipe back off and it went to the vice. I fired up the accetylene and oxygen torch and warmed it up a bit and tapped it into a shape that fit the contour of the pipe where I could weld all around the edges of it without any issue.

I welded all the way around it, and put it back on the trike and then took some measurements from the top of this plate to where the bolt hole in the hanger was. I cut another piece of 1/8 strap material, drilled my bolt hole in it and then bolted it to the rubber hanger. I then kinda trimmed the bottom of it and twisted the 2 pieces (The rubber hanger wheres its mounted onto the gas tank mount, and also the new unwelded hanger where it bolts to the rubber hanger) until I got a decent fit with the pipe in a position I liked that was down a little bit further away from the tank and also didn't have it cocked to bad on the exhaust flange. I tacked it on each corner took it off and finished it away from the gas tank as it was about 3/4 of the way full (DON"T EVER WELD OR HAVE ANY OPEN FLAMES NEAR A TANK!!!) And thats where I'm at now. I'm thinking of adding an angled side brace to help possibly keep the thing from breaking off. I'm probably being a little excessive about this mount but holy *Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited* I couldn't ever get anything to stay together on the other 500, it rattled and broke *Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited* loose ALL the time.

[85 250sx]

so have you gotten any further? whens the ride report coming?

[Billy Golightly]

I've been out of town for a few days, ride report, soon hopefully. By next weekend, or before I'm hoping. I'm working on the misc odds and ends right now. The kick starter, lengthing the shifter, bending up and swedging the stinger tube for the expansion chamber where it'll connect with the muffler, etc.

[Billy Golightly]

Well I made some progress today. I've really been wanting to get some gussets in that rear section of the frame as there wasn't much at all holding it on there. I've been thinking about this corner gusset made out of the 1 1/8 round tubing, but was having a hard time getting it out of my head and onto the actual material. My dad and I worked back and fourth for a LONG time with a hacksaw on the first one trying to get the angles right and *Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited* where there wasn't big gaps. I went through about a foot of tubing just for that one side before we got it close enough. This should add a lot more rigidity to the area and minimize the chance of just the single tube being welded to the point there cracking or breaking. They arent finished being welded yet, I just got the top sides I could get to for now. The motor will come back out and the motor flipped upside down to get the bottom sides of them soon, maybe tomorrow.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/3-23-08%20corner%20gussets%20and%20shifter/P1010001.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/3-23-08%20corner%20gussets%20and%20shifter/P1010002.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/3-23-08%20corner%20gussets%20and%20shifter/P1010024.jpg


And I also worked on my shifter....what a turd this thing ended up looking like, its like ridiculously long, but it has to be to work right :lol: For future reference, I found the optimal length of the shifter should be 9.5 inches from the rear most foot peg bolt to the rear most side of the part of the shifter that sticks out. That was optimal for my size 10.5 boot. Heres a diagram to show what I mean:

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/3-23-08%20corner%20gussets%20and%20shifter/shifterdistance.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/3-23-08%20corner%20gussets%20and%20shifter/P1010010.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/3-23-08%20corner%20gussets%20and%20shifter/P1010009.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/3-23-08%20corner%20gussets%20and%20shifter/P1010008.jpg

I'm gonna clean up the welds on it and blend it a little bit better later on. I just wanted to get it all hooked together for now. You can also see the corner gusset for that side there behind the foot peg plate. It fit a little bit better then the right side and only had to throw away 3 pieces before we got that one close enough :lol:

I also upgraded my rear brake disc to a wave style rotor. The old OEM one was warped and dragged on the pads a bit so I needed a new one anyways. I got it from Dennis Kirk and I believe it was an EBC.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/3-23-08%20corner%20gussets%20and%20shifter/P1010014.jpg

My race I kept thinking was 2 weekends away and it is now THIS COMING WEEKEND :eek: I'm gonna try my best to get it together and half assed dialed in by then but I don't know, I don't want to half ass anything to get it done in time. Not sure how many updates I'll be getting in during the week but I definitely plan to be workin my ass off on it.

[Bryan Raffa]

I bet you can get your big ol boot under that shifter...Git it done BillyYAMAHONDAMAN

[Billy Golightly]

My pipe bender die came in, only the freakin inch and an eighth one though, &^#^# so i ended up making the stinger tube out of what is 250cc engine size normal, it fit into the slip joint on the silencer fine but I'm worried about it killin my power. We'll see, I should know by TOMORROW!

All I have to do is mount my wiring (Which is looking a bit interesting at the moment, I might have to use an old wizardry trick of mine and mount the CDI box or coil INSIDE the frame behind the steering neck, we'll see. After the wiring is done I'm gonna put the rads back on, load it up in the truck and just take it to Napa or somewhere and rummage amongst the heater hoses to get what I need. I did discover that the water pump inlets and outlets is a larger diameter then the radiator nipples, so that could pose a slight problem.

Thats really all I have left over then doing the finish welding on the gussets down by the pegs and then one short place on the pipe about a 1/2 inch long. I should have it running for sure by tomorrow, hopefully afternoon some time.

[Billy Golightly]

OK, most of this morning and part of the afternoon was spent trying to figure out how the hell to mount this massive gob of wiring and the stupid rectangular metal CDI box the early years used. Heres some pics to get a general idea of how I did.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/3-26-08%20Complete/P1010004.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/3-26-08%20Complete/P1010001.jpg

It wasn't to bad really. First I welded a nut to bolt that CDI box down onto, and I found out I made it to close to the corner where I couldn't get a bolt in it :mad: so I had to weld another one on right up infront of it. That worked. The other end of the CDI box, the bolt mount was tore out so I had to wire tie it. Oh well make do with what ya got. The coil, I drilled a hole in the CDI box mount and bolted it down to it, and then ran the system ground wire to the top left radiator brace bolt hole.


Next, my exhaust needed some stinger tube bent. Ended up with a 45* bend got it pretty close to fitting in the muffler.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/3-26-08%20Complete/P1010011.jpg

And heres my bender that got the job done :)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/3-26-08%20Complete/P1010012.jpg

And here it is all together now. I don't have any pictures with the water hoses and stuff all rigged up, I'll try and get that tomorrow.


http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/3-26-08%20Complete/P1010019.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/3-26-08%20Complete/P1010018.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/3-26-08%20Complete/P1010014.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/3-26-08%20Complete/P1010020.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/3-26-08%20Complete/P1010027.jpg


video complete with sound tomorrow :)

[Black86tri-z]

patiently waiting for video

[hondahaulic]

patiently waiting for video

x2, same here!

[ATC-Eric]

Congrats Billy!


Are there any future plans to tear it back down and make it look pretty?

[Billy Golightly]

I have video but its not very interesting at the moment. Its being a royal *Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited* to start, I'm currently researching some fuel additives I might be able to use to make it pop off easier since it doesn't have near the kick starter throw that it did with the longer lever. And yes, I definitely plan on taking everything back apart and cleaning painting it once I get everything figured out.

[Billy Golightly]

I forgot to add, I have had it running some more, and I have got to ride it a bit. Sick, to say the least. Its VERY tall geared with the 15/36 ontop of the different trans ratios the 500 has compared to the 250R, but its got plenty of low end nut to pull it.

[Louis Mielke]

decompress billy decompress!!!!!!

[atctim]

I agree - billy - it is an easy modification if you know a machinist - which you do.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Triumph-BSA-14mm-Decompression-cable-Release-NEW_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247 QQcategoryZ35618QQihZ020QQitemZ300204314071QQrdZ1Q QsspagenameZWD1V

under $25.

Go ahead and splurge.

[Billy Golightly]

From what I've gathered from various sources since I started looking things up last night, I've settled on a 5% acetone mix added to the gas as my first step. Acetone lowers the flash point of the mixture, and will make it easier to ignite. I'm gonna be mixing some up here very shortly and will report back with the findings.

[evand]

video!!:drool:

its coming along sweet billy:beer

[Billy Golightly]

I mixed the acetone into the gas, and it seems to have helped, slightly. Its not backfiring quite as much as it was on just the regular old 6 month old gas I had in it before. I'm uploading a video of me trying (and successfully, only for a short period of time) to crank it in the shop from yesterday. I had to come back inside for a bit from trying to start it now on the acetone because the florida heat is kickin in and I was about ready to pass out trying to start the piece of *Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited*. I'm gonna go back over and screw with it some more in a few minutes. I tried retarding my timing a bit to see if that would help it without any luck. I haven't had it running on the acetone yet but just from hearing it "try" and run a couple times is more encouraging then what I was getting before.

I'm seriously considering ripping the motor apart and cutting about an 1/8in off the top of my piston to lower the compression some where it'll be more manageable to turn the engine over, I'm like certain that is my problem, I'm not getting enough rotation or speed out of it to make the stator and pulser make a fat enough spark. In the video I'm uploading you can see it puff little clouds of smoke every time I kick it over, so its igniting and burning a little bit of the gas but its just not burning enough of it to crank it up.

[Billy Golightly]

http://www.3wheelerworldforums.com/500inshopcrank.wmv

Pardon the moon shots while I'm bending over looking at where the muffler mount broke :lol:

I got it to run on the acetone, it ran real good actually, not funny at all or anything. Then I turned it off, and couldn't get it to start again. What an inconsistent mofo.

[84honda200s]

http://www.3wheelerworldforums.com/500inshopcrank.wmv

Pardon the moon shots while I'm bending over looking at where the muffler mount broke :lol:

I got it to run on the acetone, it ran real good actually, not funny at all or anything. Then I turned it off, and couldn't get it to start again. What an inconsistent mofo.





wow and people call my 200 cold hearted. but im sure you will get it figured out soon. ill give you props on keeping your cool. if that was me id be dropping the f bomb like no tomorrow while beating it up with a wrench.

anyway man when it started she sounded nice to me. sounds like one badass mofo ready to rip. good work man good work.

[atctim]

Billy - FYI - I feel you right legs pain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Billy Golightly]

I just got some helmet camera footage, I shut it off again and then couldn't get it to start. So whatever is causing it, it cranks easier when its cold then it does when its hot...I'm thinkin pilot jetting. Richer pilot? I think its got a 55 in it now.

[Billy Golightly]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJiU9ZHrzgg


Well theres some helmet camera footage, enjoy. I'm taking it to the race tomorrow unless something drastic happens. Maybe I'll get lucky and I'll be able to crank it, who knows. I am still tempted to tear the motor apart early in the morning and cut some off the piston, throw it back together and see if it runs any easier. Not really lost much of anything at this point, it runs but its nie impossible to start it.

[Billy Golightly]

It is now 12:05AM March 29th, 2008. My race is approx. 16-17 hours away. I am, in my infinite wisdom (or lack thereof) deciding to return to the shop, strip my engine apart, and cut the dome of the piston to lower compression, and re-assemble, tonight. Probably the stupidest thing I've ever done but I can't help myself....:crazy::crazy::crazy:

[Bryan Raffa]

good luck billy!!! GIT iT RAGGG!!! you dad gonna be out there laughin again..haha I thought you were gonna step right on your fenders....

[tri-Z ripper]

good for you billy i just spent an hour reading this thread from start to finish!! good luck on the cutting the piston and reassemmbly tonight:crazy: good luck tomorrow :w00t:

[Tri-ZNate]

git it bill. "I Gotta Do What I Gotta Do!"

[KLT110]

i watched both videos and that thing looks insane i rode a atc250r when i was like 10 and it had a brand new motor in it (yes brand new we broke it in that day) it was my dads friends it was piped jetted reeds but i wouldnt take it outa first now i would now that im 15 but that 500 sounds like it would absolutly destroy someone
lol GOODLUCK!!!!

[Billy Golightly]

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/3-29-08%20LAst%20minute%20piston%20mod/P1010002.jpg before

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/3-29-08%20LAst%20minute%20piston%20mod/P1010013.jpg after

Everything fully re-assembled, leak down tested engine to verify gasket seal.

Results: Inconclusive as of 4:00AM. Going to be very shortly.

[Tri-ZNate]

Results: Inconclusive as of 4:00AM. Going to be very shortly.

How bout as of 5:27a.m.? :acr

[Louis Mielke]

I smell PLAN B racings southern devisions first victory! heh heh. Nice to see the blaster kicker clears your fenders.

[200x Basket]

i would replace the coil under the flywheel before i messed up a piston. 55 should be plenty on the pilot.

i did not see your video but are you getting a full kick on the bike or are you hitting the peg/ brake lever?

[Billy Golightly]

Its hitting the pedal, thats why its not cranking, I'm not able to turn the engine over fast enough to generate a good spark. Theres not any real way around the issue, I can't really flip over my brake pedal like you did because of ground clearance issues. If I had more time I could have maybe maybe a TRX pedal work.

[evand]

so did the piston mods work bills?

[Billy Golightly]

I just got back from my race, so, yes, it did, with a few caveats. I'm to tired to go into detail now, more info tomorrow but I also got a remarkable unexpected improvement from the piston mod that is very beneficial.

[Billy Golightly]

Alright, heres the scoop.

I cut the piston, you guys can see how much I took off from the 2 pics I posted. It did make the engine slightly easier to turn over, not as much as I had expected or hoped though. After I re-assembled it that night I couldn't get it to crank. Went to bed and pull started it the next morning. It popped off instantly as soon as the rear tires turned the motor over, zilch hesitation. The first thing I noticed was HOW SMOOTH THE ENGINE RAN! There was almost ZERO vibration at low rpm, In fact I'd say on par with a Tri-Z at idle and low RPM. I ripped into it, and the vibes picked up but NOTHING like they were before, I mean seriously this thing has at least half the vibration it did before, perhaps less. From what I'm figuring, the crankshaft was weighted/balanced for a lighter weight rotating assembly (rod, piston, rings, wrist pin, clips) then what is stock equipped, or even an aftermarket Wiseco piston (which if you get the right one for this motor is by far the lightest one) but whatever you use out of the box is still to heavy for the way the crankshaft is weighted/balanced. If you lighten up the rotating assembly some MORE however...it starts to back down to the weight where the crank IS setup for. What a discovery to find, on accident huh?

The 500 ran great the race, I am still continuing to have issues starting it, but not quite as bad as I was. I made a few adjustments to the blaster kick starter to give myself the ability to sometimes make the engine turn over more then one rotation. The problem is, that if your not turning the motor fast enough to get through atleast 2, preferably 3 or 4 engine rotations it is not generating a good enough spark from the flywheel and stator assembly. I've left my plug in the cylinder and stuck another in it, and kicked it over as hard and quick as I can, and I get tiny puny little blue spark about the size of the pointy end of a needle. I pull the plug out, where I can row that sucker over, and I get one about the size of a ball point pen tip (.015 plug gap) so what I'm going to be doing is doing some research and see what kind of ignition modifications I can perform to increase my spark amperage at very low cranking RPM.

I ran 15/36 gearing, but with the final transmission ratios in the 500 different then the 250r this I think might have been a little on the tall side. It did work pretty well on softening the power hit a bit to prevent uncontrolled or unwanted wheelies. I bet the sucker will run more then 30mph in first gear, it feels like a street bike even with the 16 inch tires. I didn't win or beat anybody, but I wasn't going out to win the first time around, I just wanted to get some time in on the thing, give it a good shake down, see how it felt and try and get use to it again before I go balls to the wall and risk smearing myself and it all over the track. I did one time, come hard and fast into a corner and I went straight into it, twitched the front end to make the inside rear tire come up off the ground about 2 inches and then I just hammered on the throttle and the thing just slid through the entire corner awesomely hammering on the tires they were barkin the entire time. The jetting (besides a very rich pilot jet) is spot on, perhaps a weeeeeeeee bit on the lean side, I'll post some pics of the plug I ran 2 practices a 8 lap heat and a 12 lap main on and let you guys see how clean it is.

[atczack]

Hey Billy, have you thought about an aftermarket compression release? I remember looking one up on ebay a while back when I used to have that thing in dirtbike form. That might allow you to get a couple more crank rotation's per kick. I think it was some kind of gadget you screwed in the head (machine work may be required, can't remember.) Just a thought. Good luck on that thing.

[Billy Golightly]

link to what?

[Billy Golightly]

.........read the effin thread

[atczack]

It's a pop out valve, not like on a four stroke that hold's a valve open or whatever. Push it in it open's a hole in the valve, when it fire's off the valve pop's back up and the hole closes. I would give you the link but I have no idea how.

[atczack]

It might would help you get a few more spin's of the crank being you have a limited kick stroke because of your kicker hitting your pedal is what I was getting at. Didn't mean anything by it.

[Louis Mielke]

EDIT: I stand corrected. Sorry zack, I like to insert my foot into my mouth.

[Billy Golightly]

Hey Zack, those 2 messages werent for you man. Edog had made 2 posts in here, one asking "got a link" andn then I replied to with a link to what, and he repleid back again with the thread title, assuming he meant the youtube video so in turn I replied back to him to read the effin thread because the link was already posted and then evidently he came back and deleted both posts so he wouldn't look like a *Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited**E dited* was apparently trying to make me look like one with him :rolleyes:

[atczack]

No prob Billy. Hopefully we can get together and do some riding in the near future. I'll talk at yall later.

[ATC185R]

Hey Zack, those 2 messages werent for you man. Edog had made 2 posts in here, one asking "got a link" andn then I replied to with a link to what, and he repleid back again with the thread title, assuming he meant the youtube video so in turn I replied back to him to read the effin thread because the link was already posted and then evidently he came back and deleted both posts so he wouldn't look like a *Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited**E dited* was apparently trying to make me look like one with him :rolleyes:

Ya I saw that and wondered to myself: "Hmm maybe Billy is just a little bit sleep deprived and just a little bit tired of the 2 smoke grimlins"

I'm going through a vintage Suzuki 250 and know some of your pain--not to your degree though lol:drool:

[trikerooster]

NICE...... Id love to ride that baby!

[trikerooster]

I almost put a ATK 406 2-stroke motor in my 82 250R. I wanted a light on it though.

[aaron7]

Found this via youtube actually haha

You are insane. I mean that in a loving way of course.