Quick Triz jetting question...UPDATE...electrical problem

[DeePa]

Ok,

First off, i dont know what main jet is in there. Ill reply with that soon. No idea on the pilot either.

Its an 85 carb. Low end is fine. Mid is good, bogs on top when motor is under load only. Revs clean first and second, but in 3rd and 4th, if i open it full throttle, it will bog all the way until it dies if i hold it. If i release it when it starts to bog, it will keep on running, and run fine up to half or 3/4 throttle, then happen again. This happens both when i punch it or try to ease into it.

Now, when is there isnt any load on the motor, it revs nice and clean. Idles great too. No bogging when i punch it from idle to wide open.

The plug is wet and seems good. Doesnt look lean and doesnt look rich.

Spark is good. Kill switch doesnt work and I got zapped to hell when i went to pull the plug cap off. Should I have gotten shocked? I just touched the cap, prob the cylinder too. Maybe a ground is bad?

I cant tell if its a lean bog or rich bog. I know its not sputtering. Its just running out of gas. Fuel pump is working fine.

Thanks,

Mike

[brrcuda]

Passsssssed out........Inside joke:rolleyes:

When i had my 85 running at first. I had all kinds of high rpm cutouts. I f'ed with the jetting for 2 weeks until one night. I went out to test and when i let idle in the pitch dark, i could see a blue spark from my coil wire. Fixed the coil and ran great from then on - something to check. I had a good spark test too, but would arc out intermittently under load.

Next is jetting - do a plug chop properly. kill it in front of your house under load and roll it in for a check. Another thing is that bike has been sitting for a few months - in that time the jets could have clogged up. Thats what killed my other topend since my bikes didnt ride much over time. That was only from like 2 months sitting.

You just dont want to blow up any topends. So becare of leaning it past stock 470 unless your sure...

[DeePa]

hey...update...

i tried replacing my coil with another one, same problem.

I took it out, ran fine in first, ok in second. At full throttle in 2nd, it would cut out. Shift into 3rd, it would bog, but if i held the throttle in while it was bogging, it would come to life and lift the front tire off of the ground.

It seems like its loosing spark or intermittent spark.

What are possible causes of this? I know that the ground on the coil is done right. Also, my kill switch doesnt work.

Any ideas?

I have a triz in parts so i can steal parts off of it.

Should i try swapping the cdi?

I already swapped the coil.

What else is there to mess with? Id like to do the stator last.

Mike

[Mrs.Mosh]

Sounds like Mosh's tri-z when the stator went bad.Ran great on the low end,cut out in the mid and high rpm's.

[chris200x]

Mike. I recently rewired that bike...( I bet that makes alot of folks nervous! LOL) so be sure to recheck all the connections. I eliminated all the wires that were not needed. (i.e thermostat, headlights, tail light etc.) and that's a newer on/off switch I got off badasskfx. it did work... maybe something came loose.

The spark plug coil on there is off a 83 yz dirtbike. I picked up off ebay real cheap. It did have a nice white spark. so maybe mosh is right.. maybe the stator itself is going bad. Now you can see why I was so frustrated and gave up on it. I hope you figure it out soon bud!

Let me know if you need anything..

[brrcuda]

Yeah but chris - you had the trike running before "farmer joe incident" right. How did it run on that one ride. Was it cutting out like he describes or was it running clean throughout the throttle. I think that info could help out in deducing the issue for deepa.

I guess now i got to sell my spare stator assembly to you huh.......... :shiftyeyes:

A multimeter is like gold in these situations. I would check all negative terminals for continuity to the frame and the engine. None of these harnesses are really complex at all. Just need to trace your grounds first then logically follow the positive lines.

Did you get shocked after the second coil was installed or no? the coil needs like 20,000 volts to break resistance of air - but its low current - hahah.

[chris200x]

Paul. It did run but was bogging in the lower rpm range. Mid and full throttle it was fine. :wondering it would sputter a bit when I pulled out is what I'm trying to say. I would think its the jetting that is off a bit.

[Mosh]

What kinda carb and jets are in the bike????
I would guess stator assuming the jetting is good.

[chris200x]

It was the stock carb with a 370 main (I think) the pilot was one size bigger than stock. I wanna say a 40 or 42. He's gonna hafta pull the carb and take a look. I just cannot remeber off hand.

[Mosh]

It was the stock carb with a 370 main (I think) the pilot was one size bigger than stock. I wanna say a 40 or 42. He's gonna hafta pull the carb and take a look. I just cannot remeber off hand.

85 or 86 carb???

If that is a 85 carb with stock needle,that 370 main is too lean.
You might want to go with at least a 420 jet,and middle clip posistion.

[chris200x]

Not sure about that one Rob. I bought the carb from a member here... so It's not the stocker that was on there originally. I didn't even know there was a diffrence between the years.

[Mosh]

Not sure about that one Rob. I bought the carb from a member here... so It's not the stocker that was on there originally. I didn't even know there was a diffrence between the years.

Yep there is completely different jetting between 85 and 86.
I had a 86 carb on 1 Z with a 370 main in it.
I figured it to be too lean with a phase 2 motor,since my 85 Z and carb runs a 480 main.
I put a 440 main in the 86 carb and it would not rev up at all.
I went back to the 370 in the 86 carb and it is spot on.

85 carb ran a 470 or 480 main and its own needle.
The 86 carb ran a smaller main.I think it was a 370 main on the 86 with a different needle.
The carb bodies were differnent too.

Raffa knows all the ins and outs of the differnces.

[DeePa]

so what should i check first?

it runs clean without load. its when theres load there is a problem.

wouldnt jetting be an issue if it didnt rev clean without load? it runs fine in first and second.

in third itll bog then rev up and take off, bog again, rev up and take off when i keep the throttle pinned.

Mike

[Dirtcrasher]

Did you do an Ohms test on the stator? I'd check the resistance if thats a common Tri-Z failure.

I've had bikes fall flat at top end with lean jetting but it was every gear with a load. Every jet has been removed and spotless right?

Let us know what you find....

[DeePa]

well i pulled the stator cover off and a waterfall gushed out. im sure this was part of my problem, if not all of it...

only problem now is that ive lost spark somehow when i was messing with the wiring.

I have an ohm meter somewhere...gotta find it.

thanks

mike

[chris200x]

WATER??? :eek: WTF?! :confused: I wonder where that came from. I only ever hit one puddle... (and it was mostly mud like 4 months ago!) ...and the trikes been in the garage ever since???

also... I addded a little teaser pic for your viewing pleasure. :naughty: :shiftyeyes: :welcome:

[Bryan Raffa]

hey check and see if theres water in the stator cover!!:rolleyes: :lol:

sound like your getting closer!

[sblt500r]

when i had the stator here, it did ohm out well within spec. but the water didn't help any.

[DeePa]

well theres still no spark...

busted my flywheel puller too.

gotta buy a new one (again) and go from there.

thansk for that info shawn.

nics pics chris.

why did it run with water but now that its dry, it doesnt fire? fricken tri-zs


mike

[brrcuda]

well the water didnt help things i guess. Probably from being washed with too much water on the engine. the seal for the stator wire is usually the culprit.

I have had water in mine as well in the black 86 from one of the Derry rides through the deeps. Drained it, dried it, and ran it afterwards - no issues for the year after.

I would think stators die from physical damage (like magnet coming loose and hitting it) more so than elec component failure. They are just coils of wire to build up voltage from the magnets. If it ohmed out ok before - its prob OK even after the water.

Maybe burnt out the cdi? Voltmeter helps now. measure volts coming from stator wire - look in manual for which coilgoes to which output wire.

[Bryan Raffa]

yep right where the wires come out..I try to keep mine sealed up good.. you also can get just the stator coil source oem.. I have see coils on a spark tester real good at low spark and break up after a few min..usally means there on there way out..check that coil again too.

I use one similar to this
http://www.autobarn.net/coiltester.html

[DeePa]

ok an update....

swapped stators. same problem happened. so altogether, i tried swapping the cdi, coil, and stator, and same thing...its gotta be jetting.

Didnt tighten the flywheel tight enough, so it came loose, sheared the key, and while it was backfiring it shot flames out of the little fuel pump vaccum line. quite a funny site to see...

im going to throw this mikuni out the door and throw my 39 pwk in there. I figure 180 main, 52 pilot, and go from there.

Mods are...sotck pipe, no porting, stock reeds, aftermarket silencer. maybe 180 is a hair too big but it is winter.

any ideas?

Mike

[Tri-Z Pilot]

You sure it's not the fuel pump or needle valve? I'm guessin your starvin the bowl when you open it up causin the bike to starve for fuel and bog, or your fuel pump workin inapropriately. It def. sounds like fuel starvation since it will rev without a load. Just some stuff to check into.

[Bryan Raffa]

180 should be good I run 160-65 in the summer, it will be fat

[overdressed1]

well theres still no spark...



why did it run with water but now that its dry, it doesnt fire? fricken tri-zs


mike

Try filling back up with water:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Bryan Raffa]

Try filling back up with water:lol: :lol: :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lock: :lock: :lock:

[DeePa]

it turned out and a repair on the old stator's wire had broken. didnt see it til the flywheel was off. It was a few inches from teh connector too.

im thinking the 39 pwk should fix all. i dont think anythign else electrical could be wrong with it.

Mike

[overdressed1]

Sorry about the previous sarcasm. Can't help myself sometimes.:D

What I meant was maybe there was some corrosion or breakage in there and the water was making contact and when you drained it there was no more connection.
But hey it looks like you found it.

[DeePa]

oh no if the new stator didnt work water was my next step hahaha...

i can take it. if i can laugh when my cylinder shot a flame out of the vaccum line i can laugh about the water....

mike

[DeePa]

well an update...put the 39mm pwk on there got a 55 pilot and 185 main and the plug chops for wide open are still a light tan...too lean for me.

it runs really good too. i have the airbox cover installed trying to richen it up, but still teh same thing.

IS it possible to need higher than a 185 main on a basically stock 80 over motor? It has a mossbarger reed cage, stock exhaust, slightly cleaned up ports.

I just cant get the plug to darken, otherwise, it runs like a raped ape.

Mike

[Dirtcrasher]

Hey Mike, although it's stock it's gonna take whatever it takes. I don't know why you can have 2 identical bikes with similar mods that have totally different jetting settings but it just happens.....

I imagine, air fiters, reeds and other small differences are what changes this. Maybe even the output or strength of the spark plug coil too, who knows.......

I have had REAL good luck using and old jet and a drill index from 1-60. You can get a nice index set for under 20$. Then I just keep going up until I'm happy with the jetting. Some people are concerned about "turbulence" created from the drill bit not leaving a perfect hole. To them I suggest getting it right with drills and then buy a brand new jet with that same hole size.

Man, we spent about 30$ on just before we got my ex-chickies Blaster running right. I wish I had just used the drill bit method.

Did you check for intake leaks while it's running with a can of WD?? I've seen plenty of bikes leaking at the reed cage, thats why I hand stone them perfectly flat.

[DeePa]

id rather just have the set, its close, so im going to go grab some at a local shop. prob 187 190 192 195 198 200 i mean that 30 bucks right there, jets are such a rip

mike

[Tri-ZNate]

Deepa, I'd just go up a few sizes and see how it does instead of buying a huge lot of them. if you tan on a 185 that a 192 should darken it up no prob.

Another BIG thing with jetting is Altitude. I believe the higher you are the fatter she needs to be