View Full Version : 1985 Honda 200x ENGINE PROB! **(What to do...What to do...)** ;o(
rckstrgrl21
12-02-2007, 10:37 PM
Ok,
So I just gor my bike back from the shop and took her out this weekend to the desert and I had to get towed back to camp 3 times!!!
The shop cleaned the carb, but a rebuild kit onto it, changed the fuel filter and some fuel lines. They compression tested it, came out with a 140.
I changed the oil and put a new spark plug in it.
So It starts up nicely, even cold, although it doesn't idle all the time.
I took her out to the dunes, was out for about 40 minutes and it stalls on me. Try to restart it and nothing, doesn't even try.
I sit back, drink a beer and wait, I figured it was flooded (makes the "I'm flooded" sound when kicking it)
after 15 minutes still nothing so I get towed back to camp.
right when we get back i gave it a kick for the heck of it and BAM starts right up! arggg!!!!
We went out later that night for about an hour and it ran perfect!! the entire time! It even idled when we got back to camp.
next morning we go out, and 20 minutes later it stalls on me while moving on flat ground! same thing!!! towed back, started right up when we got back!
later on, we were getting ready to go, i started her up, perfect! And she even idled!!! as we were waiting for everyone else to get their gear on, she idled the entire time, for 20 minutes!!! I was so excited.
I got on her and went to put her in first and she stalls!!! and will not start back up!!!! arggg!!! :cry:
Does anyone know what I may need to look for? is this normal for a 22 year old bike?!?
when it stalls, and doesn't start it has a bogging sound when trying to start. but it does not even try to kick over!!!
any ideas?!?!?!? :confused:
hmmm,.....sounds like an intermittent problem.....could be electrical....
super90
12-02-2007, 10:42 PM
It could be the coil going bad. Possibly starving for fuel but I doubt that though. Could be a wire thats loose too. my friends old blaster had a loose wire somewhere and everytime he put it in gear or moved it it shut off.
team-red-rider
12-02-2007, 10:53 PM
it could be the fuel cap is bad
The Goat
12-02-2007, 11:06 PM
just letting you know, if you find out it's electrical...pm me. i'm likely going to be getting rid of all of my electrical once i get the lifan in.
84honda200s
12-02-2007, 11:08 PM
if im getting this rite... it runs at night good but not during the day ? sounds like a overheating problem of some sort. could be coil overheating or the motor is. but im pretty sure its a overheating problem.
Danold
12-02-2007, 11:18 PM
it sounds like when the plug was changed a hotter plug may have been put in. check the numbers on the sparkplug and mabye go to a cooler plug.
Your manual is on it's way.
Maybe your main is to big?
Take the plug out and take a look at it?
rckstrgrl21
12-02-2007, 11:36 PM
Your manual is on it's way.
Maybe your main is to big?
Take the plug out and take a look at it?
Thanks Edog!
What do you mean by "main"? the spark plug?
When I bought the spark plug, I brought the old one to the parts store with me, and his computer showed they don't make the exact plug but there is one that is its substitute.
what does it mean to have a "jetted" bike?
because the shop told me when they were looking over the bike, they found that it has been re-jetted, with a racing exhaust or something of that sorts. (my mind lacks in the memory department)
rckstrgrl21
12-02-2007, 11:37 PM
it sounds like when the plug was changed a hotter plug may have been put in. check the numbers on the sparkplug and mabye go to a cooler plug.
Can someone tell me what numbers/letters should be on the correct spark plug for this bike?
1985 honda 200x
DeePa
12-02-2007, 11:40 PM
the fact that it runs good when it runs throws the jetting out the window. main means main jet.
stock plug is ngk dres8-l. doubt that is your issue too.
My first inclination was the tank wasnt venting.next time it happens, pull the cap off of the tank, and see if it starts back up.
next would be to go through every electrical connection, and grease them up with dielectric grease and reconnect them. See if that helps.
Did the trike ever get wet during these times?
rckstrgrl21
12-02-2007, 11:42 PM
if im getting this rite... it runs at night good but not during the day ? sounds like a overheating problem of some sort. could be coil overheating or the motor is. but im pretty sure its a overheating problem.
No, incorrect. it doesn't really matter what time of day it is, however maybe you have a point, it did run perfect at night. But it wasn't that much cooloer at 10pm then at 6am when we went out this morning.
it wasn't any hotter than maybe 70 degrees out here this weekend, it just got done raining the day before (my bike was not in the rain)
Why would it be overheating? I did think that for a second, because I could feel the heat radiating off the engine.
There isn't that much electrical on the bike is there? I mean its not electric start or anything. i guess for the lights.
rckstrgrl21
12-02-2007, 11:48 PM
the fact that it runs good when it runs throws the jetting out the window. main means main jet.
stock plug is ngk dres8-l. doubt that is your issue too.
My first inclination was the tank wasnt venting.next time it happens, pull the cap off of the tank, and see if it starts back up.
next would be to go through every electrical connection, and grease them up with dielectric grease and reconnect them. See if that helps.
Did the trike ever get wet during these times?
ngk dr8es-l is what my spark plug says. does it matter that the 8 is in the wrong spot?!?
I will try the gas cap thing. Maybe I should just buy in a new gas cap, 2 have thought gas cap so far.
hmm...what electrical connections are there? I don't see any. ;-x I am a girl but not blonde. lol
deep purple
12-02-2007, 11:49 PM
I would say it is the coil,they can give the exact intermittent fault you are describing,(it could be other things, but I would start at the coil first):beer
DeePa
12-02-2007, 11:51 PM
yeah i just threw the plug numbers out of my head, knew it was something like that...yours is right.
There are a bunch of connections. Some are under the tank.
Do you have a manual? Thatll tell you where all the connections are.
Just trace the wire harness from the headlight, back to the tail light. Take apart any connectors you see, grease em up with that di electric grease, and put them back together.
Try the gas cap first though.
Mike
84honda200s
12-02-2007, 11:55 PM
just basically a bunch of coils and switches. now i know this may sound dum but have you changed the oil ? that would cause a bit of overheating problems. but now that i think about it... it could be the wrong jet size in the carb. is ther any mods done to the engine ? such as bigger bore, bigger carb. high compression rings, after market exhaust , ect .... ? all this stuff plays a roll in how it runs. if the motor has any mods and its running a stock main jet in the carb you are probably running way to lean. also what color is the plug when you take it out ? is it black , gray, white ?
rckstrgrl21
12-03-2007, 12:16 AM
just basically a bunch of coils and switches. now i know this may sound dum but have you changed the oil ? that would cause a bit of overheating problems. but now that i think about it... it could be the wrong jet size in the carb. is ther any mods done to the engine ? such as bigger bore, bigger carb. high compression rings, after market exhaust , ect .... ? all this stuff plays a roll in how it runs. if the motor has any mods and its running a stock main jet in the carb you are probably running way to lean. also what color is the plug when you take it out ? is it black , gray, white ?
yes, I just changed the oil right before this ride, the old stuff was more black than coffee.
I changed the spark plug, i took it out it is still the color as new.
the shop said my bike was rejetted, I have no idea what that means
it also has a cobra full exhaust on it
that is the only mods I know about. but I don't know about anything inside of the engine.
Did they rebuild your carb?
Did they use a stock rebuild kit?
It could be running lean and getting hot.This will lead to engine failure.
rckstrgrl21
12-03-2007, 12:24 AM
Did they rebuild your carb?
Did they use a stock rebuild kit?
If they did it is running lean and getting hot.This will lead to engine failure.
haha....i think i might be calling myself a dummy...but....
so if my bike is "Jetted" that has something to do with the carb? like a bigger carb or what?
Yes they rebuilt the carb.....and yes I was the one who bought and supplied them with an oem carb rebuild kit.
is that a problem, and if it was, wouldn't the shop have noticed and mentioned something?
I mean they did notice it was jetted because I had no clue until they said something.
They also replaced the fuel lines going from the peacock to the carb, and the fuel filter
WHAT DOES RE-JETTED MEAN?!?
means they changed out the stock jets for larger jets to comphensate for the upgraded exhaust
all these symptoms dont lead me to beleive its got anything to do with the carb either, since it will run flawlessly for a while then stall
I still think its electrical
http://www.3wheelerworldforums.com/showthread.php?t=55086
TwoHundredEx
12-03-2007, 12:30 AM
Jets are little passages inside your carb. that allow fuel to go through.
When you put something like an aftermarket exhaust, you need to compensate for the extra airflow by changing the Jets to larger ones, which increases the amount fuel going into your engine.
Larger jets=More fuel and a richer setting, smaller=Less fuel, leaner setting.
Atleast that's what I think they are. :D
It's running to lean.You need to fatten it up.
Leaner is meaner.
wtf? how did you come to that conclusion edog? I dont think any part of this has to do with the carb, plus if it was running lean a common side effect is a nice glowing red headpipe on a four poke
rckstrgrl21
12-03-2007, 12:38 AM
I take back one of my messages. I originally took my spark plug out in the dark when i said it looked normal, I again took it out, this time in the light (DUH!) and its black. I took a pic for everyone....let me get it onto my computer
84honda200s
12-03-2007, 12:42 AM
man get a manual the read it over and over. look over your wiring, make sure the grounds are grounded good and make sure nothing is lose or cracked. if that is all good then more than likely its a coil taking a crap or the carb needs to be jetted and tuned in. but personally id take it to the shop and tell them that they need to fix it because it wont run worth jack.
edit: if its too dam black its too rich. need to be leaned out a bit.
but personally id take it to the shop and tell them that they need to fix it because it wont run worth jack.
WORD x 10!!!!
After 83 they went to a 108.I would go with a 110 and see how it runs then.
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h196/edog_02/1-3copy.jpg
rckstrgrl21
12-03-2007, 12:53 AM
You guys are awesome, thank you for all your input!
I am a noobie, and just learning, and I appreciate all of your help and patience as I ask the "stupid" questions :wondering
here is a pic of the spark plug.....
edog wouldn't this mean its too rich?
The pic needs to be better.
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h196/edog_02/1-4copy.jpg
rckstrgrl21
12-03-2007, 01:04 AM
well, I only have my 1.3 mega pixel camera on my phone. I can't do too much better, heres two more
and, yay! atleast I got the spark plug right! 1 out of 2!
Looks lean to me.
Re gap that plug to 0.6mm or 0.7mm, it looks way to big.
rckstrgrl21
12-03-2007, 01:24 AM
Thanks edog! I will bring it back to the shop on tues (what shops are closed on sun & mon!?!? MINE, of course)
I don't want to ruin my newly aquired bike, But I am going back out to the desert this weekend! woot woot!!
now thinking about it, the carb rebuild kit doesn't come with jets, so the old jets should still be in there making it still re-jetted. so that wouldn't be causing it, right? do i just need to change the dial to 110? is that correct!?!?
350xrider911
12-03-2007, 01:50 AM
what size is the main jet in it now,if it bigger then 110 dont go lower if, u got a manaule see what the air to fuel mixture sqew.
RedRider_AK
12-03-2007, 02:14 AM
It sounds like an electrical problem to me too. Coils are really known for running fine when cold, and then when it heats up it starts shorting out. My old 440 snowmobile would do that all the time, you'd start it up and it would work great for half an hour or 20 minutes and then lose spark on one cylinder, and if you killed it you couldn't start it for 10 minutes or so until it cooled down and magically got spark again. I'd replace the coil before anything else, you can get new/used ones a dime a dozen on Ebay or on the board here. :)
rckstrgrl21
12-03-2007, 02:20 AM
I'd replace the coil before anything else, you can get new/used ones a dime a dozen on Ebay or on the board here. :)
and how hard of a job is that? Do you need to rip the engine apart? I am trying to figure out how much this is going to cost me...
TwoHundredEx
12-03-2007, 02:29 AM
It's not very hard, it's under your gas tank, and you don't need to take apart the engine. 2 bolts, a couple wires, and you're done.
RedRider_AK
12-03-2007, 04:08 AM
Yep, the coil is real easy to get to. You just pull the gas tank off, take off the 2 bolts that attach it to the frame, unhook the hot wire and the spark plug lead on it and you reattach the new coil doing the same stuff in reverse.
If you had an 86 200X, I could send you a working coil for the cost of shipping, I am parting out an 86/87 X right now...
The Goat
12-03-2007, 06:40 AM
with the cobra exhaust and no airbox lid...i had to go all the way up to a 125 before she would start running right.
Tri-ZNate
12-03-2007, 06:52 AM
remember the old saying, "Its whats on the Inside that counts"? Same deal here, when you look at the spark plug, the part that matters is the inside. The white probe in the center should be a brown if it is running correctly, Black if rich, and white (which it appears to be) when lean.
rally4x4racer
12-03-2007, 07:29 AM
choke it next time, see if it helps. That plug looks really lean to me also.
I imagine you are busy and there are many things you would rather do than get intimate with your bike. However, it is a lot cheaper in the long run to avoid the shop. You will be inclined to do things right if it is your bike and your not trying to make a buck.
Don't argue with the shop unless you have everything that belongs to you in your posession. A lot of mechanics (like Judes Cycle Service in Orlando) will steal your bike fast. I learned this by losing a classic bike to a lien. Just a word of caution :) If they did not fix it right the first time: caveat emptor.
Check out that carb sticky that was posted, you will dig it. You have the perfect engine/carb set up to learn about carbs. These carbs are easy to pull, and easy to work on.
Some of you guys aren't reading this thread all the way threw.
SHE GAVE THEM THE STOCK REBUILD KIT FOR THE CARB.This would indicate a lean problem.Cause the stock main is smaller then the fat one that was in there.
If you could confirm that the old main was put back in to replace the new smaller main then I don't know what the problem is.I am only giving a answer with the information presented.
And stop asking her if she has a manual.I allready posted that her manual was on the way in the begging of this thread.
How many hours have you ran the trike sence they worked on it?
now thinking about it, the carb rebuild kit doesn't come with jets, so the old jets should still be in there making it still re-jetted. so that wouldn't be causing it, right? do i just need to change the dial to 110? is that correct!?!?
hmmmmm.....soundz like your the one not reading the posts all the way through either;)
hmmmmm.....soundz like your the one not reading the posts all the way through either;)
Sorry I read this.I think she is wrong.Rebuild kit for carbs come with jets.
Bryan Raffa
12-03-2007, 10:36 AM
the next time it happens ........Pull the plug and check for spark.. could be the pick up coil, when they heat up and get hot they stop working... Hence the fireing ,, after a cool down
pull the plug, put it in the wire and let it touch the metal of the motor,,wile pushing the kickstart with your hand
ive gotten them before from honda without jets, just a bunch of crapy gaskets and a few o rings, I was pissed! maybe she got that set, also this shop SUCKS if they told her it was rejetted for better exhaust and they returned her jetting to factory specs!! thats just plain stupid!
rckstrgrl21
12-03-2007, 11:36 AM
now now guys, edog is helping as much as he can, unfortunately I don't really know what all came with the rebuild kit, i looked at what I got and it appeared to be a sharp needle, a few rings, a few screw type things. all in a snack sized baggie. I don't know what jets look like, but if they are larger than an eraser then there wasn't any in the baggie. I could put the baggie in my back pocket it was so small.
I don't think this shop jerked me around, they are very nice guys, gave me a pretty good break on everything.
I will still take it back to them, however I am still attempting to learn at the same time. Keep in mind I don't know engines, but hopefully I will learn along the way.
come on now I am a girl trying to learn the dirty stuff!!! ha ha...
The Goat
12-03-2007, 01:28 PM
those few screw things the same diameter as an eraser were the jets...i'm thinking they rejetted it and now it's a little lean.
well if it's back to 108...it's likely a lot lean.
Dirtcrasher
12-03-2007, 02:03 PM
Helping you isn't telling you to "fatten it up" or "change the coil".....Thats a guess, just like hundreds of posts on this board where half the members are parts changers and not mechanics. I don't mean to insult members but GUESSING doesn't help.
When you get the repair manual, read it from page to page and you'll be much more familiar with the stuff were talking about.
The jetting. Jets are small brass threaded inserts with smooth holes inside them about the diameter of a guitar string. There are different jets for different times of fuel delivery such as 1/4 throttle, 1/2, 3/4 and the Main jet which is wide open throttle. A larger hole delivers more fuel and a smaller hole delivers less fuel. The idea is to match the air/fuel mixture to the exhaust and airfilter you are running. I don't run an airbox lid and if I try to, the motor falls flat on it's face. Jetting is that sensitive. You can't just pull the plug, take a picture and get a good answer. I believe the EDOG posted the link to the "Jetting Stickey" and thats a good read. You have to do "Plug chops" to find out where the main jet stands you in terms of rich or leanness.
I always love the "change the coil" guess. Hey, it may actually work 1 out of 10 times but why waste money and time and guess at it? There are electrical specs in the manuals or on 3WW. By using a multi meter and testing OHMS or resistance you can see if the coil has the correct value both cold and or hot when it dies. The meter will also test your on/off switch, pulse generator and CDI. Your electrical system isn't simple jusy because it doesn't have a battery or ES but it isn't too complex either. You just test one part at a time and if you do it enough, you'll be an expert at it when it does die.
There are so many reasons a motor won't start. After it gets hot, has the compression gone down? If it runs great for a good time and then dies or won't restart it isn't a mechanical failure because it wouldn't run again. It sounds to me more of a fuel or electrical problem. The electrical is a simple test with the meter. The fuel - if you pull the plug after repeated attempts to restart it is the plug wet? If not your gonna have to find out why it isn't getting to the intake valve. BTW, the compression of the cylinder is what pulls in the fuel air mix and thats why low compression when hot does this. So is the compression still good? Shut off the fuel at the tank and see if the carb fuel bowl is full? At the bottom of the carburetor is a phillips head screw with a hose attached nearby. Thats the bowl drain, if you loosen that screw a few ounces of fuel should come out the hose. If no fuel comes out, the tank cap may not be venting, the float may be stuck or the strainer inside your fuel tank petcock could be clogged.
Find out what it isn't getting when it won't start. Could be fuel, could be ignition but either way at least you'll be headed in the right direction and not just swapping out parts.
RedRider_AK
12-03-2007, 02:20 PM
Well explained Dirtcrasher. I must admit I'm pretty bad at giving advice :lol:
The Goat
12-03-2007, 05:45 PM
yeah, and i'm a noob dirt...i admit it.
rally4x4racer
12-03-2007, 06:55 PM
I have no idea whats wrong with your bike :naughty:
If you want to pull the carb just pull the airbox off and pull the carb off.. should just be a couple of screws and bolts (yellow arrows) then you will just have this boot on the back of your engine (silver engine) and then when you pull the bottom off the carb you will be able to see the jets (red arrows)
These bikes are kind of like 3D puzzles - taking them apart and putting them back together is pretty easy if you go about it in an organized manner. Youll get used too it!!
Keep us posted on what the FIX is
BTW: I am not implying all shops suck or that yours scewed up. I just wanted to share some good ol' first hand experience :)
84honda200s
12-03-2007, 07:13 PM
with the cobra exhaust and no airbox lid...i had to go all the way up to a 125 before she would start running right.
thats razy shiz man !!! im running a modified 200s engine with bigger carb and all. im only running a 110 main jet. thats with a open filter and a bassani exhaust. its running perfect.
I am not gonna get technical on you.But I had this problem with a quad of mine years ago.
I went thru all this stuff these guys were telling you to do,with no avail.
Here is what I found, and you could do yourself.
Lets review and start with the basics.
1) You bought the bike and it had been sitting for a long time.
Your carb was gummed up from old gas,and had to be takin apart and cleaned.
MAIN JET WILL NOT AFFECT STARTING.
There is no real reason to suspect your carb jetting at this point.
2)When a bike sits with old gas,moisture accumulates in the tank
And disperses the fuel.Water is heaver than gas,and will cuase a flow problem to the carb.Hence when someone towed you back, the gas sloshed around and your bike started till the water got back to the carb.
My suggestion is,that if no one ever removed the gas tank, and drained all the fuel, and blew it out dry with compressed air,There may be tiny water droplets in the tank causing fuel not to flow.
This is my suspicion of your problem.
This is something you can do yourself.
Drain and remove your fuel tank.Be sure to remove the fuel valve on the bottom of the tank and blow everything out with a air gun.
This is what cuased my problem that I referred to earlier.
I would exhaust this avenue,before buying coils,jets, and going back to the shop where they will charge you again,just to tell you nothing is wrong.
Also there are a few black hoses on your carb that hang down towards the ground.Remove each one and be sure that you can blow thru them like a straw.
Sometimes they get clogged with mud and wont let the carb fill back up with gas.
Good luck.
Dammit!
12-03-2007, 07:34 PM
Helping you isn't telling you to "fatten it up" or "change the coil".....Thats a guess, just like hundreds of posts on this board where half the members are parts changers and not mechanics. I don't mean to insult members but GUESSING doesn't help.
When you get the repair manual, read it from page to page and you'll be much more familiar with the stuff were talking about.
The jetting. Jets are small brass threaded inserts with smooth holes inside them about the diameter of a guitar string. There are different jets for different times of fuel delivery such as 1/4 throttle, 1/2, 3/4 and the Main jet which is wide open throttle. A larger hole delivers more fuel and a smaller hole delivers less fuel. The idea is to match the air/fuel mixture to the exhaust and airfilter you are running. I don't run an airbox lid and if I try to, the motor falls flat on it's face. Jetting is that sensitive. You can't just pull the plug, take a picture and get a good answer. I believe the EDOG posted the link to the "Jetting Stickey" and thats a good read. You have to do "Plug chops" to find out where the main jet stands you in terms of rich or leanness.
I always love the "change the coil" guess. Hey, it may actually work 1 out of 10 times but why waste money and time and guess at it? There are electrical specs in the manuals or on 3WW. By using a multi meter and testing OHMS or resistance you can see if the coil has the correct value both cold and or hot when it dies. The meter will also test your on/off switch, pulse generator and CDI. Your electrical system isn't simple jusy because it doesn't have a battery or ES but it isn't too complex either. You just test one part at a time and if you do it enough, you'll be an expert at it when it does die.
There are so many reasons a motor won't start. After it gets hot, has the compression gone down? If it runs great for a good time and then dies or won't restart it isn't a mechanical failure because it wouldn't run again. It sounds to me more of a fuel or electrical problem. The electrical is a simple test with the meter. The fuel - if you pull the plug after repeated attempts to restart it is the plug wet? If not your gonna have to find out why it isn't getting to the intake valve. BTW, the compression of the cylinder is what pulls in the fuel air mix and thats why low compression when hot does this. So is the compression still good? Shut off the fuel at the tank and see if the carb fuel bowl is full? At the bottom of the carburetor is a phillips head screw with a hose attached nearby. Thats the bowl drain, if you loosen that screw a few ounces of fuel should come out the hose. If no fuel comes out, the tank cap may not be venting, the float may be stuck or the strainer inside your fuel tank petcock could be clogged.
Find out what it isn't getting when it won't start. Could be fuel, could be ignition but either way at least you'll be headed in the right direction and not just swapping out parts.
He said pretty much everything I was getting ready to say. Thanks for saving me the trouble. :lol:
One thing I'll add. Next time it dies, as Dirtcrasher suggested, pull the spark plug and see if it's wet or dry. He already explained a dry plug is a fuel delivery problem. If it's wet and still not firing though, the first thing you should do at that point is check for spark.
rckstrgrl21
12-11-2007, 09:52 PM
Well.....I took the x back to the shop, and they said that it is probably the valves needing adjustment, no big deal, right?!?! well they check them out, and they needed a very minor minor adjustment so they got curious on why it is running rough all of a sudden. well they looked around and then did another compression test (the test from the day I got the bike was 140) and it now is at 100. :(
No bueno!
So now, I am going to rebuild the engine. however I want to bore it as much as possible while keeping it reliable and turn key, without having to use racing fuel.
what else can I do to get more umph in it, without going out and buying a 250r.
I have a cobra exhaust, K & N conefilter without a lid, and a jet kit
My question to you guys is:
1. Is there somewhere I can buy a refinished top end already bored out?
I see refinished top ends on ebay, but they are just oem standards.
2. anyone on here live in so california that knows these trikes up and down that I could maybe work out a deal on to do the work?!? otherwise I will stick to the shop, but they do charge a hefty penny.
just having a fresh bore and tight fiting piston can bring back lost power, on 4 strokes you need cam/ and valve/intake and exhuast mods, and a host of other things, goto powroll.com and check out there stuff
DeePa
12-11-2007, 09:56 PM
hey now a trike will run just fine on 100 lbs...my 200s is at like 90ish and it runs like a champ.
dont waste your money.
fix the problem at hand and get away from that shop asap...
TwoHundredEx
12-11-2007, 09:56 PM
I'd go with a higher compression piston if you're rebuilding it.
A 10.5:1 should give you a little more power and still run on regular fuel.
rckstrgrl21
12-11-2007, 10:02 PM
How much hp does the 200x have oem?
and the 250r?
TwoHundredEx
12-11-2007, 10:04 PM
200X is about 13-15. I think the 250R's are rated at about 35-37hp, but not positive on that.
rckstrgrl21
12-11-2007, 10:04 PM
I'm thinking of doing the:
BORE KIT 198cc
66mm Piston, 10.5:1 Compression.
Designed as an overbore kit for a stock engine, or as a compliment to our stroker crank. When used with our stroker crank, this 218cc kit has excellent horsepower and impressive torque.
INCLUDES: Piston, pin, rings, circlips, head gasket and base gasket
REQUIRES: Boring, rejetting.
BUT... what benifit is there to doing this one instead?
BORE KIT 198cc HIGH COMPRESSION
66mm Piston, 12:1 Compression.
Designed as an overbore kit for a stock engine, or as a compliment to our stroker crank. When used with our stroker crank, this 218cc kit has excellent horsepower and impressive torque.
INCLUDES: Piston, pin, rings, circlips, head gasket and base gasket
REQUIRES: Boring, rejetting, race gas 108 octane or greater.
Because I really don't want to have to run racing fuel? or can i do regualr with an octane booster?
rckstrgrl21
12-11-2007, 10:06 PM
200X is about 13-15. I've think the 250R's are rated at about 35-37hp, but not positive on that.
130-150? or does this kit actually give it 200 hp more?
Dammit!
12-11-2007, 10:07 PM
200X is about 13-15. I think the 250R's are rated at about 35-37hp, but not positive on that.
EDIT: After looking it seems the 250Rs are more around the low 30's range.
The liquid R's are 39hp stock per Honda of Japan.
Edit: the 200x is not an ideal machine for going crazy with mods. They weren't very reliable heavily modded twenty years ago and are even less so now. If you really need that much more power, sell it and get a 2-stroke or a 350x. That is unless you just love wrenching on your trike all the time.
I'm planning only mild mods for my 200x project. Pipe, filter, 10.25:1 piston (smallest bore I can get away with on my cylinder) and if I can find a smoking deal maybe a cam and a bigger carb. That's it.
TwoHundredEx
12-11-2007, 10:09 PM
The liquid R's are 39hp stock per Honda of Japan.
Ah, so my first thought was fairly close, thanks for correcting me.
Black86tri-z
12-11-2007, 10:16 PM
hey rckstrgrl got any pics of your self??????
Tri-ZNate
12-11-2007, 10:17 PM
Ah, so my first thought was fairly close, thanks for correcting me.
I think you were looking at the stock hp of the '84 air cooled R. They were low 30s
rckstrgrl21- The different is the piston being used. the first kit has a piston with a 10.5:1 compression ratio as with the second one has a 12:1 ratio. Go with th first kit. the 10.5:1 piston will give you more power than stock and should be noticable
rckstrgrl21
12-11-2007, 10:36 PM
I think you were looking at the stock hp of the '84 air cooled R. They were low 30s
rckstrgrl21- The different is the piston being used. the first kit has a piston with a 10.5:1 compression ratio as with the second one has a 12:1 ratio. Go with th first kit. the 10.5:1 piston will give you more power than stock and should be noticable
so it low end power difference or high end power difference between the 10:5:1 and the 12:1? like will one be better for the sand dunes? that is basically what i use it for.
If i do sell it, i wouldn't get anything close to what i have already spent on it.
$500- purchase
$175- shop charge for carb rebuild, oil, fuel lines
$75- brand new itp rims
$155- brand New Itp tires
$110- shop charge to adjust valves
total= $1025 ( I believe, quick mental math)
I can't sell it for that. atleast I don't think so. Any offers?!?!? haha
I can only fix her up to be as reliable as possible, and have decent power, until i can afford the 350x I want.
A 250R would be a vast improvement than the 200X.But it might be to much for you."MITE".
I wish there was more I could do to help.
Do you like the 250R?
Have you rode a 250R?
Eric250R
12-12-2007, 01:08 AM
so it low end power difference or high end power difference between the 10:5:1 and the 12:1? like will one be better for the sand dunes? that is basically what i use it for.
If i do sell it, i wouldn't get anything close to what i have already spent on it.
$500- purchase
$175- shop charge for carb rebuild, oil, fuel lines
$75- brand new itp rims
$155- brand New Itp tires
$110- shop charge to adjust valves
total= $1025 ( I believe, quick mental math)
I can't sell it for that. atleast I don't think so. Any offers?!?!? haha
I can only fix her up to be as reliable as possible, and have decent power, until i can afford the 350x I want.
The 12:1 piston will give you more power all the way around, but the stock 200X rod simply won't stand it for long, and it will be a little harder to start. Go with the 10.5:1, it's all you need to have a good time on your X. And no, you can almost never get your money back out of something you have fixed up, you can either sell it for a loss or sink a little more into it and ride the wheels off of it. Myself, I would fix it right, then have fun with it. At least long enough to get used to 3 wheelin, then move up to something bigger.
rally4x4racer
12-12-2007, 01:38 AM
hey now a trike will run just fine on 100 lbs...my 200s is at like 90ish and it runs like a champ.
dont waste your money.
fix the problem at hand and get away from that shop asap...
I could not agree more. I am just an idiot but I could have adjusted your valves and checked your compression within 10 minutes. If I could command 110$ for that then why have I been in school for 6 years trying to get a respectable job?
Dirtcrasher
12-12-2007, 08:04 PM
IDK about that... My buds 200X was at 100lbs and it ran great - if you could get it running - we had to pop start it or kick the crap out of it.
Best way out? A 10.5:1 Wiseco oversized piston.
The machine has to be torn into first and measured. Then a new oversized piston is ordered, measured and bored to the correct tolerance. That in itself is a NICE upgrade. Want to go a step further? Buy the WEBCAM aggressive cam and spring kit, this runs another 200$ though.....
No one makes an already bored cylinder aside from any existing "kits" that are still aroun but I haven't seen many.
Want my opinion? If it was cheap DUMP IT!! The 85 200X is only O.K. in my book. The 86/87 200X is so so so many light years ahead of the 85 and under that it's crazy. There are so very few parts that interchange from those years that it shows HONDA knew they needed to upgrade that model BIG TIME.
Or..... Do what my buddie did, dump 500$ into the motor, rebuild the suspension, fix the cosmetics and have a 2500$ machine that my 500$ 86 200X smokes the hell out of and handles, starts and runs soooooo much easier.
IDK about that... My buds 200X was at 100lbs and it ran great - if you could get it running - we had to pop start it or kick the crap out of it.
I somewhat agree here.I had a 84 200x.Smoked like mad,had 100 lbs of compression and ran great.I could start it all day.It even towed a 600 grizzly 3 miles down a rail bed after he sunk it in the river.
Your "shop"
Does not know what they are doing.You had good compression,they adjusted your valves and you lost 40 pounds of compression?
Sounds to me like they OVER adjusted them and now one is hanging slightly open.
In any sense,It should run on 100 pounds even if you have to pull start it.Did they squirt oil in the cylinder and see if the reading went up???
IF so then you need a new piston.IF the reading stayed the same,then a valve is hanging open.
Someone else said get away from that shop.
I agree.
Find a local Small guy with a good reputation and get a second opinion.
rckstrgrl21
12-15-2007, 06:46 PM
Ok, So the shop quoted me $610 out the door for rebuilding with a 220cc big bore kit. seams a little too much for me considering I bought the bike for 500.
I am going to do this myself. And i will be asking some really really REALLY stupid questions :crazy: ....so thank you in advance for all your help!!!!
Dirtcrasher
12-15-2007, 06:58 PM
Ok, So the shop quoted me $610 out the door for rebuilding with a 220cc big bore kit. seams a little too much for me considering I bought the bike for 500.
I am going to do this myself. And i will be asking some really really REALLY stupid questions :crazy: ....so thank you in advance for all your help!!!!
Crazy... Unless the rest of it is mint I'd suggest cuttin your losses. Do you want to be 2000$ into a 22yo 200cc ATC? Believe me we have ALL done it.
I try to find machines that the last owner lost his shirt on and I can gain from there loss.
Wouldn't you rather spend 1000$ or so on something someone dumped 2000$ into?? It has new tires, plastic a recovered seat etc - see where I'm going? Or do you want to risk that yourself?? Our resale isn't very good, it's much better to start with a clean tight machine than to try and build one.
I think I posted to you before that I sold my bud an 85 200X for 900$ and it WAS in good shape, he sank it and blew the motor. Then he popped the tires, bent the grab bar an broke the OEM fender. He's at 2500$ for a trike he'd be lucky to get 1000$ for and now he wants a 350X. And I smoke him with a stock 86 200X I paid 550$ for, it's a bit humiliating to him to say the least..........
To each there own!!
Just my .02c...............
rckstrgrl21
12-15-2007, 08:29 PM
Well anyone have a 350x for sale?
My roomate has an '83 honda 250R bored to 300cc, rebuilt motor, hiflight seat, really really clean. he is selling for 1300 but told me he will sell it to me for $800. what do you guys think?
rckstrgrl21
12-15-2007, 08:31 PM
what is a post without pics?!?!?!?
:pics: :pics: :pics:
Tri-Z Pilot
12-15-2007, 09:00 PM
From what I could see it looks like a great deal plus the 300 kit is a plus, it's a big step up from a 200x though. I would probably not go for it though I seem to only have a thing for the liquid 250's (I am building an 85R now), but in your circumstances it sounds like for the money you want to sink into the x, you'll get more bang for the buck out of the R. Just food for thought.
I would buy it.Have you rode a 2 stroke before?
I would get it and then pray that you dont blow the top end on that 300! lol, thats an easy $400+ to rebuild right then and there more if the bottom end gets fubard.
Dirtcrasher
12-15-2007, 09:18 PM
Dam, that R looks nice. Plus it's your roomate so you can beat him up mentally if anything goes wrong, LOL!!
If your a dune rider, the 2 stroke is much better in the sand than the 200X 100psi dog...
I made this for you for your signature pic if you get the 250R.
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h196/edog_02/Untitled-1copy-5.jpg
rckstrgrl21
12-15-2007, 11:14 PM
Thanks edog, I put my bike up for sale. we will see if i get any takers. I'll see if my roomy will work out a payment plan! ha ha
I must say that 200X is sexy!
DeePa
12-15-2007, 11:31 PM
id definately keep the 200x. 100 psi of compression isnt bad. itll run, you just need to fix the other problems.
riverrat
12-16-2007, 01:49 AM
All that and she still never really found out what was wrong with it. Dirtcrasher gave you an excellent post on how to find what is wrong with it.
I agree with others that you should get rid of that shop, and find another. They may have ruined the already good compression by adjusting the valves wrong. They may have even did that on purpose, to get you to rebuild it with them.
I would bring it to someone else, and have the valves adjusted again, and the compression rechecked.
Also the next time it dies, remember you need spark and fuel for it to run. So by simply pulling the plug when it won't start, then putting the wire back on the plug and holding the metal part of the plug against the engine while kick it over, you will be able to see the spark jumping the gap of the plug.
(don't grab the metal with your hand, you might get a small shock) No spark probably means the coil is heating up and dying, but it could be the stator also. At least you know your getting no spark. The next thing to do would be to test the electrical components while it's down to see which one failed. The manual gives step by step instructions. All you need is a volt meter.
You can try to choke it when she dies, and see if that helps, that means you are starving for fuel. While the shop may have rebuilt your carb, the idle jet is very small and can become clogged with debri. They may not have cleaned it properly. I have a 1981 Yamaha street bike, that I had "cleaned" the carb 3 times and still had the same problem. On the fourth try I finally found the dirt causing the problem.
Don't worry too much about money spent on it (to a point). Think of how much a new one would be, and how many years you would make payments, and repairs. For the cost of a few payments, you can have a great machine that will last a long time. Plus, it's a 3 wheeler.
rckstrgrl21
12-16-2007, 01:57 AM
Thanks riverrat....Your the only one giving me a slight bit of hope. We will see. I will try that, but I think I might cut my losses. I have already sunk a ton of money into this trike.
I was going to sell it and get my roomates 300r but that all went down hill tonight when a guy called to buy my bike tonight (he is moving on monday) and since my bike is still at the shop (the one I won't go back to again) its not here for him to buy. My idiotic self told him about my roomates bike, thinking he wouldn't take it since its for sale for 1100 not 500 like mine. well the guy offered my roomate 750 and a playstation 3 and my roomate jumped on it!
oh well things happen for a reason!!!
I will still try to sell my bike, but try to fix it in the mean time.
im so indecisive (go figure, being a girl!) who knows!
TwoHundredEx
12-16-2007, 02:07 AM
So the 300R is sold?
Wow, that's definitely a bad turn of events eh.
Just so you know, I've seen plenty of liquid 250R's on here needing very little work, for under a $1000. I would've jumped on them, but they usually tend to be on the other side of the country.
I'm sure you could find one in your area for a good price if you're patient and look around.
rckstrgrl21
12-16-2007, 02:13 AM
yeah, thats true.
If... (keyword)... IF I do sell my trike I think I am going to get a newer quad. less problems/headaches
riverrat
12-16-2007, 03:05 AM
yeah, thats true.
If... (keyword)... IF I do sell my trike I think I am going to get a newer quad. less problems/headaches
Girls (ladies) who ride ATV's are cool. Girls who ride 3wheelers, are that much cooler.
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