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View Full Version : Rare exhaust pipes... whose got em?



chris200x
11-09-2007, 08:16 PM
I'm kinda wondering whats some of the harder pipes for our atc's to find and whose got them.

I'm escpecially intrested in knowing how many folks have complete supertrapp systems for their 250sx's. I think I know of maybe 4 of them around... So that's gotta be one of the more rarer systems. But I'd like to hear some of your guys thoughts and maybe some :pics: to drool over.

mike from long island
11-09-2007, 08:22 PM
I had a Phase Five complete exhasut system for my 1985 Tri-Z.But once I bought the LRd I sold it off.It was on ebay.The only bidder was from the Uk.So it isnt even in the states anymore...:cry:

Huffa
11-09-2007, 08:26 PM
I have the full Super Trapp system on the 250SX and it's a quiceident (spelled wrong, I know) that you mention this because mine is for sale.

DG pipe and silencer on the 84 R but can you still get them brand new yet ?

ceaserthethird
11-09-2007, 08:26 PM
I have a Super Trapp on my - ATC 70 !

Haven't Seen any !

chris200x
11-09-2007, 08:26 PM
Shoot mike.. I didn't even know those were made for the Z's. (got any pics of that LRD? is it a complete system?)

I had an answer expansion chamber that was welded up in a few spots.. (I got $35 for it on ebay!) but I see theres an answer silencer on there now.. or at least recently listed.

Your selling it huffa? Me you and nouseforaname90 have the complete SX ST systems that I know about.. all here in the great state of PA! LOL

Huffa
11-09-2007, 08:28 PM
I had a Phase Five complete exhasut system for my 1985 Tri-Z.But once I bought the LRd I sold it off.It was on ebay.The only bidder was from the Uk.So it isnt even in the states anymore...:cry:

Phase Five, my R had that sticker on, is that all they make, is pipes ?

RedRider_AK
11-09-2007, 08:29 PM
I know a guy in our town who has an Answer system on his 200X, I believe. It actually doesn't sound bad at all...

chris200x
11-09-2007, 08:30 PM
I have a Super Trapp on my - ATC 70 !

Haven't Seen any !

Is that a complete system or a universal jobber? I dont think I've eever seen one either.

Huffa
11-09-2007, 08:31 PM
I have a Super Trapp on my - ATC 70 !

Haven't Seen any !

The full system or just the muffler ?

mike from long island
11-09-2007, 08:38 PM
Phase Five, my R had that sticker on, is that all they make, is pipes ?

I also had a Phase Five extended axle.I think there were a few items they made.

Yup the LRD is complete,and I bought it from another member.He sold his Z before he had a chance to use it.He lived only an hour away too.

ceaserthethird
11-09-2007, 09:18 PM
The full system or just the muffler ?

Full System Huffa ! :naughty:

vegas250rr
11-09-2007, 10:14 PM
I have a Bills pipe and silencer on my Tecate,
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n194/youngberg1/Trikes/tecate/DSC01203.jpg
and I gave Rivertoys an Answer S11 a while back... he has now polished it and it looks SWEET!
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n194/youngberg1/Trikes/DSC021893.jpg
http://www.rivertoys.com/jason/atc/silencer1b.jpg

tecatecrazy
11-09-2007, 10:14 PM
bassani
wheelsmith??
dg
klemm
some unknown hand made conical

all for my 1st gen. tecate

85ytz250n
11-09-2007, 10:17 PM
I have posted pics of this pipe before and no one knew who made it. I got the bike from a kid in Atlanta a few months ago and was very suprised at the difference in this one and the one I had before. I called the guy back and asked where he got the pipe he said that it was on it when he got it off of ebay a couple years ago and that the guy he got it from was in Minnesota. I may get rid of it but who knows.

Barry

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j149/aholefireman/DSC00021.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j149/aholefireman/DSC00016.jpg

mike from long island
11-09-2007, 10:18 PM
I forgot I have a complete Bills exhaust for the 81-82 250r.I got it from 200xman.He bought a brand new Kereker exhaust for his 81 250r.It looks awesome.Maybe if you guys are nice he'll post some pics...:D

chris200x
11-09-2007, 10:21 PM
I have posted pics of this pipe before and no one knew who made it. I got the bike from a kid in Atlanta a few months ago and was very suprised at the difference in this one and the one I had before. I called the guy back and asked where he got the pipe he said that it was on it when he got it off of ebay a couple years ago and that the guy he got it from was in Minnesota. I may get rid of it but who knows.

Barry

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j149/aholefireman/DSC00021.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j149/aholefireman/DSC00016.jpg

Isn't that a harry klemm pipe? :wondering

Never hear of wheelsmith tecatecrazy... got a pic? Klemm made pipes for tecates too? :eek: I learn something new from this website everyday! :cool:

Someone posted a pic of a kerker on a tri moto if I remember correctly...(a member down in maryland i think?) Dont they resemble a bugle coming out the back of the bike? :lol:

85ytz250n
11-09-2007, 10:31 PM
Isn't that a harry klemm pipe? :wondering



Dont know man, I thought that it was but I who knows. There was a member here who said that he knew the pipe and wanted to buy it but he wouldnt share the maker with me.

Barry

Dammit!
11-09-2007, 10:39 PM
I have a bassani for a first gen 200x. The muffler section is a little beat up though.

NINJA
11-09-2007, 11:20 PM
Selvy's ooooooh yeaaaah:naughty:

SYKO
11-09-2007, 11:23 PM
my flat tracker has a unkown sectional on it, from what a few people have told me it apears to be like a dynoport knock off of a paul turner high rev, it makes great power and I dont feal like postin pics! lol!

NINJA
11-09-2007, 11:32 PM
How about these while I'm at it?
A CT sectional for an83/84R
A NOS Mugen for an 81/82R
A Bassani for aN 83/84R
And a Bassani for an 81/82R

Billy Golightly
11-09-2007, 11:39 PM
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/P1010035.jpg

LRD adjustable ATC250R pipe


http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/DCP01488.jpg

LRD non-adjustable Tri-Z pipe when it was new. Not new anymore.

NINJA
11-09-2007, 11:44 PM
Leave it to Billy to bust out the big guns!

Vealmonkey
11-09-2007, 11:47 PM
I don't have any pics of these pipes yet. A nos bassini that I put on my yt125. A hooker header for my suspension 70, that has seen better days. I have an nos bassini for an atc90\110. I have a protec for a yamaha 200. I have a protec header on my bw200 and am looking for a muffler that will work since I can't seem to find the other half for the bw200 I might have to modify a supertrapp. And I have supertrapps on my 350x and suspension 185s and also a dg on an atc110 and had a dg on a yt60 that I sold.

3Razors
11-09-2007, 11:47 PM
Here's a CRF for a Tri-Z that I acquired.

chris200x
11-09-2007, 11:51 PM
Man,,, I really like the looks of those bare sectional pipes. :naughty:

Are the supertrapps hard to find for the 350X? whats still available (or not so much) for them?

:eek: Thats what I'm talkin bout 3razor's!!! :drool: Thats prolly the only one of those around anymore. :naughty:

tyman
11-10-2007, 12:01 AM
Billy..

an ADJUSTABLE PIPE? what makes it adjustable???

besides hitting it with a hammer..... i don't see how it can be adjusted?

Kintore
11-10-2007, 12:02 AM
Look closly tyman, on the pipe see the bolts? and the 2 sections that are connected? On the 250r pic

threewheelin-feelin
11-10-2007, 12:25 AM
i had a full bassani system on my old 200s....it sounded so badass

Brockey
11-10-2007, 12:26 AM
I have the 81/82 250r Mugen 300 pipe. Paule on here has a few of them forsale. Thats where I got mine. Now hijack on... Anyone know where to get the bushing to bring it down from a 300r to a 250r cylinder. hijack off. Those sectional pipes bare look amazing. Do ye treat them somehow?

Billy Golightly
11-10-2007, 12:57 AM
Billy..

an ADJUSTABLE PIPE? what makes it adjustable???

besides hitting it with a hammer..... i don't see how it can be adjusted?

Checkout down the by the waterpump, and also right on the bottom tip of the airscoop ;)

steven 250sx
11-10-2007, 02:31 AM
vegas i'm using the bills silencer on my z but i'm looking to upgrade to dg

wizzard
11-10-2007, 02:51 AM
anyone have a yoshimura (sp?) I've only seen 2 ever, both 83-85 200x's

NINJA
11-10-2007, 03:14 AM
Naw, that can't be right.

evand
11-10-2007, 10:32 AM
i have a non stock pipe of some kind on my Z with a answer silencer, i have no clue what kind of pipe it is but i looked at some pics of stock tri-z's and it dosnt look like a stock pipe

mike from long island
11-10-2007, 11:26 AM
i have a non stock pipe of some kind on my Z with a answer silencer, i have no clue what kind of pipe it is but i looked at some pics of stock tri-z's and it dosnt look like a stock pipe

Do you have a picture of the Z pipe?

1upfront
11-10-2007, 11:54 AM
Here's my 83-84 R unknown sectional pipe.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/lrdunlap/f2.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/lrdunlap/f1.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/lrdunlap/f5.jpg

SWIGIN
11-10-2007, 11:56 AM
i have the only 2'' 350rx pipe with a shorty header and a custom silencer ever made..... how do i know?



i built it....lol


from just infront of the kicker to the silencer i built it with slices (like 10 or so) so i guess its a 4 stroke sectional pipe

oh and that turn down is a 2'' stainless pluming elbow :naughty:

03 ORANGE SHEE
11-10-2007, 01:17 PM
here is the klemm research pipe i got from another member on the boards here...needs to be finished (paint)

stealthduner
11-10-2007, 10:09 PM
I've got an old Round style aluminum DG silencer for an 85-86 250R
A cobra silencer for an 85-86 250R (probably my fav for the R with a stock headpipe)
a round DG steel silencer for 83-84 ATC250R ( loud but i like it )

and i have an older DG headpipe for a 85-86 250R (i liked this one it was a decent overall gains pipe, i had a section of it rot out right below the inlet)

Chevy200s
11-10-2007, 10:16 PM
nice pipes guys, I have what looks like a Bassani on my 83R and an Answer Equalizer silencer

Bryan Raffa
11-10-2007, 10:30 PM
:twisted: the ONLY ONE in the World!!:twisted:

Bryan Raffa
11-10-2007, 11:09 PM
one of the better Z pipes....the stock one! adorned in Chrome!
You bet your sweet butt this is going on a Bike..;)
not too many of these around:naughty:

03 ORANGE SHEE
11-10-2007, 11:11 PM
:twisted: the ONLY ONE in the World!!:twisted:

look at that tuba loookin thing!

jason 32
11-11-2007, 01:21 AM
does flexpipe count?-lol

rally4x4racer
11-11-2007, 01:46 AM
Aircone was never mentioned

Tri-ZNate
11-11-2007, 09:11 AM
:twisted: the ONLY ONE in the World!!:twisted:

Yeah i got one of those deals. Anyone Every hear of a Phase 5 On their SX? :w00t:

Phase 5 and Bassani for the SX are my rarities I'll get pics soon

mike from long island
11-11-2007, 09:27 AM
Yeah i got one of those deals. Anyone Every hear of a Phase 5 On their SX? :w00t:

Phase 5 and Bassani for the SX are my rarities I'll get pics soon

I think freakfix has a Phase 5 on his old 200x?Or at least he had one???

Tri-ZNate
11-11-2007, 09:30 AM
Yeah he has one on his 200x. I think it was an old flat tracker

chris200x
11-11-2007, 09:32 AM
Dont know man, I thought that it was but I who knows. There was a member here who said that he knew the pipe and wanted to buy it but he wouldnt share the maker with me.

Barry


Hey.. look at the pics of your pipe compared to the pics 03orangeshee just posted of his Klemm. they sure look the same to me. :naughty:

Raffaman.. I love the chrome stocker (I was going to do that to mine but couldn't find anyone local) but in my opinion you shoulda kept the dynoport unfinished... (just my opinion) What do they use to weld on the mounts (that gold color stuff) that looks pretty cool!

Is it hard to keep unfinished pipes from rusting? I think I read where if you scrub them down with brillo and wd-40 when they're hot they eventually turn that wicked bronze color. Anyone got any pics of what I'm talking bout?

Keep the posts coming guys.. I just eat this stuff up! :w00t: I was waiting for some redneck to mention flexpipe and a cherrybomb! gotta be super rare indeed! LMAO!!!

Hey Nate... where'd you find that loudass bassani that's on your SX? If I remeber correctly they resemble DG's do they not? post some pics brotha!

Tri-ZNate
11-11-2007, 09:36 AM
Anyone got any pics of what I'm talking bout?



Nope But I'm headed out now to get the pics you wanted

thefox
11-11-2007, 09:41 AM
Someone posted a pic of a kerker on a tri moto if I remember correctly...(a member down in maryland i think?) Dont they resemble a bugle coming out the back of the bike? :lol:

I have the Kerker for my Tri Moto 200, if I remeber right another member bought the other one I have seen, a NOS in the box one on ebay 2ish years ago.

I had a line on another YTM with a Supertrapp pipe (and another suspension kit) but the owner backed out. You Az boys should keep an eye out for that one!

chris200x
11-11-2007, 09:44 AM
I have the Kerker for my Tri Moto 200, if I remeber right another member bought the other one I have seen, a NOS in the box one on ebay 2ish years ago.

I had a line on another YTM with a Supertrapp pipe (and another suspension kit) but the owner backed out. You Az boys should keep an eye out for that one!


Hey.. that's the one I was talkin about. :beer Is that obnoxiously loud? judging from the shape you would think it is.

thefox
11-11-2007, 10:36 AM
Hey.. that's the one I was talkin about. :beer Is that obnoxiously loud? judging from the shape you would think it is.

It's not that bad, I was surprised (and relieved!). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pGcMZn7WAA

chris200x
11-11-2007, 10:47 AM
No, not too bad at all! YAMAHONDAMAN :naughty: Has a nice throaty sound to it!

Tri-ZNate
11-11-2007, 12:09 PM
Here are some pics. SX is Dirty, Deal with it. Hasnt moved in 1½ years

Bassani needs the header repainted and the phase 5 I'm in the middle of purrdying it up. Even Over cleaner wont take this Shiza off :eek:

Chris I found the Bassani on ebay. That has the throatier sound

Phase 5 was on a bike locally, I still cant believe it was on there.

Billy Golightly
11-11-2007, 12:09 PM
Hey.. look at the pics of your pipe compared to the pics 03orangeshee just posted of his Klemm. they sure look the same to me. :naughty:

Raffaman.. I love the chrome stocker (I was going to do that to mine but couldn't find anyone local) but in my opinion you shoulda kept the dynoport unfinished... (just my opinion) What do they use to weld on the mounts (that gold color stuff) that looks pretty cool!

Is it hard to keep unfinished pipes from rusting? I think I read where if you scrub them down with brillo and wd-40 when they're hot they eventually turn that wicked bronze color. Anyone got any pics of what I'm talking bout?

Keep the posts coming guys.. I just eat this stuff up! :w00t: I was waiting for some redneck to mention flexpipe and a cherrybomb! gotta be super rare indeed! LMAO!!!

Hey Nate... where'd you find that loudass bassani that's on your SX? If I remeber correctly they resemble DG's do they not? post some pics brotha!

I had to paint my LRD Z pipe, and it still gets rusty. The worst part is the first 6-8 inches of the exhaust where its the hottest. Nothing seems to stand up to that heat unless its an extremely high temp ceramic coat. I wish I could find a way to keep the original finish without it getting all nasty rusty. I guess its possible with WD40 and a pad but you'd have to go over it once a week. I'm not into that.

chris200x
11-11-2007, 05:58 PM
I hear that Bill.. Its pretty difficult to get in that tight curve with anything to get or keep it clean, escpecially when it's mounted on the trike. Maybe some high temp clearcoat.. if there is such a thing would help protect it some.:wondering

That phase 5 SX pipe will clean right up Wheeliepop... I use a bench grinder with a wire wheel on it... then a dremel for the tight spots. ;) Anyone know if a DG was ever available for the SX?

freaksfix
11-11-2007, 07:52 PM
I think freakfix has a Phase 5 on his old 200x?Or at least he had one???



yup.. still got the bike and the pipe.. only one ive ever seen on a first gen 200x.. about as loud as they come too.. love it!!!

got a selvys silencer on the 85r,, but mike already knows that.. thats loud also..


and ive got an outta frame His And Hers drag pipe for the air cooled r..

my brother has a Bassani on his auto x

scooterroo
11-11-2007, 08:06 PM
NOS Bassani...never even run on yet.

Bryan Raffa
11-11-2007, 08:19 PM
[QUOTE=chris200x;552618]
What do they use to weld on the mounts (that gold color stuff) that looks pretty cool![ QUOTE]


He brazed it

Somekindofjerk
11-11-2007, 08:39 PM
I have posted pics of this pipe before and no one knew who made it. I got the bike from a kid in Atlanta a few months ago and was very suprised at the difference in this one and the one I had before. I called the guy back and asked where he got the pipe he said that it was on it when he got it off of ebay a couple years ago and that the guy he got it from was in Minnesota. I may get rid of it but who knows.

Barry

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j149/aholefireman/DSC00021.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j149/aholefireman/DSC00016.jpg


Yourlossismygain has a pipe exactly like that on his tecate

NOS_350X
11-12-2007, 02:59 AM
I have one of the OLD bassani's for a 350x i want to sell. Everything elce i have is unknown.

gaukel350x
11-12-2007, 03:12 AM
How much do you want for that bassini pipe big boy

NOS_350X
11-12-2007, 03:39 AM
i dono, what do you think there worth, i sold one for a 200x about 5 years ago for $250.

super90
11-12-2007, 12:39 PM
http://i8.tinypic.com/8ad4dvm.jpg

Yeah the 70 tires didnt last long :lol:

http://i12.tinypic.com/8eskchh.jpg

wizzard
11-12-2007, 12:41 PM
I knew somebody had to have one !

oldsking86
11-12-2007, 01:55 PM
Here's mine :naughty:
http://usera.imagecave.com/lilcuban38/P1010171.JPG

jenndnn3
11-12-2007, 09:18 PM
I have a full supertrap on the 79 110... Dunno how rare that is but I have only seen 2... I owned both...
Still have one.

I have some weird sectional that noone has been able to identify. Just pulled if off the R...

brapp
11-12-2007, 10:33 PM
i have 2 origional paul turner high rev and the new style paul turner high rev fo rmy 85 r's and i have a silencer for a 83-85 200x made by skyway and i have a atc90 with a basani on it. and i also have the aultra rare stock 350x exaust thats un molested and i have a dg rcm alloy on a basani headpipe for a 350x.

ceaserthethird
11-13-2007, 04:41 AM
Hey Brapp post pictures of the ORIGINAL Paul Tuner Hi Rev .... I think i have one of the First Production PT !

BigReds Forever
11-13-2007, 02:14 PM
I have a 350x supertrap. The mid pipe part was kinda bad so im adapting it to my 86 200x

gaukel350x
11-13-2007, 02:28 PM
Ya I have a complete supertrapp on my 90 and on my 350x, and I also have a weird under chassis exhaust for a 90, I also have a answer silencer for a 250r I don't know what year thoe, I also have a dg pipe for a 1984 250r, and I also have millions of stock pipes

NINJA
11-13-2007, 07:59 PM
http://i8.tinypic.com/8ad4dvm.jpg

Yeah the 70 tires didnt last long :lol:

http://i12.tinypic.com/8eskchh.jpg

What's that silencer for originally?

super90
11-13-2007, 09:07 PM
400ex ^ ^

NINJA
11-13-2007, 09:09 PM
That's a pretty sweet setup man!

brapp
11-13-2007, 09:25 PM
the diffrence is the origional pt has just the corners of the name plate tack welded and the 2nd gen has the entire edges welded

chris200x
11-18-2007, 10:05 PM
This is the only one I've seen for a 350x. Anyone know if it was just a slp on or a complete exhaust?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270187786994

Kinda more than I was hoping to pay but O well... Just one more thing to piss off my neighbor freind! :naughty:

200xman
11-19-2007, 07:47 AM
Let's see, I have a full Kerker exhaust on my 81 300R, a Supertrapp and a Bassani for my 110's and a DG for a 125M. I can get pics if anyones interested.

chris200x
11-19-2007, 07:52 AM
Let's see, I have a full Kerker exhaust on my 81 300R, a Supertrapp and a Bassani for my 110's and a DG for a 125M. I can get pics if anyones interested.

200Xman.. So the Kerker is a complete system then? :wondering I dont have any experience with those. You know if that silencer I won will work on a stock 350X headpipe? Not that just a silencer will make much of a diffrence without a larger header???

I'd like to see some pics of those pipes.. I think Huffa found a complete ST system for a 110 as well.

Tri-ZNate
11-19-2007, 09:24 AM
So the Kerker is a complete system then? :wondering

You'll find out huh? :lol: I doubt its a slip on but i have been wrong before. Look for a pic of the 350x stock silencer and look at the exhaust routing

razorbackatc
12-07-2007, 12:56 AM
I have a new in the box '87 Honda Big red muffler. It has never been used or even taken out of the plastic. It is in the original box. I would sell it or trade even or a NOS Curtis Sparks pipe for an 85 200X I am restoring. I would also consider a Super Trapp. I say buy up all you can now....soon it won't be available.

DixiePlowboy
02-17-2008, 08:49 PM
Old thread, but had to add to the list.

I've just traded for an '86 Tecate that came to me with an undinged CRF(Crotch Rocket Factory) headpipe. I'm looking for info, ads, articles, etc... that might lend a little insight into how good of a pipe this is.

Remington700
02-17-2008, 09:19 PM
Old thread, but had to add to the list.

I've just traded for an '86 Tecate that came to me with an undinged CRF(Crotch Rocket Factory) headpipe. I'm looking for info, ads, articles, etc... that might lend a little insight into how good of a pipe this is.

Haha I was gonna resurect this earlier today but left it. Thanks though..

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa261/ModularMike/nikon121.jpg

Unstamped sectional pipe with Answer S-11 silencer.

Billy Golightly
03-12-2008, 05:00 PM
Checkout this super rare one of a kind oldschool aftermarket prototype pipe, I heard its called a "Golightly special" ? I wonder what'd it'd bring on ebay?


http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/HondaATC/500R%20Flat%20Tracker/Pipe%20almost%20done%203-12-08/P1010040.jpg

chris200x
03-12-2008, 05:40 PM
I'm a bit curious about that pipe billy. Doesn't the shape of the chamber have alot to do with the performance of the motor? You think with it being altered like that is going to affect anything?

iamschme
03-12-2008, 06:39 PM
looks kinda like the jemco pipe i have on my fooler. got it from sykolincoln and he says it gave the fooler more hp gains than anyother pipe he ever had on it. the only distinguishing mark is jemco stamped on the underside of the pipe next to the engine. it looks handmade like mine with the individual welded pieces.

Bryan Raffa
03-12-2008, 06:40 PM
the shape no.. the lenghts yes.. check these out..

Billy Golightly
03-12-2008, 07:02 PM
Raffs right, the general shape doesn't make any difference. The main thing is that there are no abrupt corners or angle changes, everything has to sweep which means instead of doing a single harsh angle cut for a 90 degree bend you instead make several, 5 or 6 if need to be to make sure that it retains. Its screwed up a little bit in the center, but the rest of it follows around pretty well. And it doesn't have any pieces removed from it, its all original tuned length.

SeaBass8
03-12-2008, 09:28 PM
I just got this this week. Super Trapp for my 86 200x. What do you think its worth?

NINJA
03-12-2008, 10:46 PM
Checkout this super rare one of a kind oldschool aftermarket prototype pipe, I heard its called a "Golightly special" ? I wonder what'd it'd bring on ebay?


It looks like a limb reattachment gone wrong! LOL
J/K Not too shabby Billy.

200x Basket
03-13-2008, 12:56 AM
i have a white bros and a super for my 85 200x. I also have the 250r s11 silencer and a couple others.

Bigred200
03-14-2008, 07:12 PM
I have a DG for my 200e if I ever get it back together.....lol

danimal95
03-15-2008, 07:24 PM
i just got my klemm for the R the other day,looks really cool...and it was only 60 bucks