185s Power Question (I think I found it!!!)

[hancadam]

I took my 185s to Land Between the Lakes this weekend. It ran flawlessly but seemed to be lacking power. It would struggle to climb any hill with me on it. It would only make it in first gear. I was hoping the power would be comparable to my 83 200x, but far from it. In the mud it would barely go. I will run a compression check tomorrow. No smoke at all, a little valve noise though. On a side note I had a pretty serious wreck. Jumped a small hill and went over the handle bars with the bike flipping forwards and landing on me. Scrapped my arms badly and broke my thumb. Ended the trip a little early, but could have been worse. Any other thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Should it have comparable power to a 200x engine?

[hancadam]

Also another thought, I have a 84 200s engine. Would this be any better? I know its a little larger CC but the 185s has a higher compression stock. Would I have to switch over the wiring harness or will the stock 83 185s cdi and harness be fine? I know it will bolt up and I think the carbs are identical. Thanks for the help guys!

[rally4x4racer]

they don't fly as well as a 200x - or land as well, but it looks like you already figured that out :)

if the top end looks good you might adjust your clutch. mine was being a wuss the other day and i tightened the clutch a little and it helped.

[jeffatc250r]

Sounds like your 185 is just tired, for what little time it would take, id throw that 200 motor in and see how that one runs.

[hancadam]

they don't fly as well as a 200x - or land as well, but it looks like you already figured that out :)

if the top end looks good you might adjust your clutch. mine was being a wuss the other day and i tightened the clutch a little and it helped.


The clutch is weak and I did adjust it, helped some. I have a new clutch kit but think I will go with the 200s engine for now. Just need to know about the CDI and wiring. Somebody had jerry rigged the wiring on the 200s.

[hancadam]

I ran a compression test on both of my motors. The 185s read 90 at the highest after several pulls. The 200s read 60 at the highest. Looks like I found the problem. Time for a bore and top end. Also I got the axle pulled apart to replace the rear bearings. Now I can also fix the brakes. Does anyone have a 185s manual? How hard is it to replace the clutch? I have never done this. Thanks, Adam.

[rally4x4racer]

http://www.3wheelerworldforums.com/showthread.php?t=56218

go there for a manual.. surely the compression is not THAT low ? 60 psi is pretty bad. retest it and then do the wet test to see if it is rings.

what kind of seat is that?

[hancadam]

I know about those manuals. I guess the 200s manual is close enough engine wise. I thought that PSI was a bit low also. I tried it with a little wd40, no better. Both decompression cable are broken so thats not it. Would it not smoke badly if it was that bad? Neither had air filters when I got them. Think I will put new rings, pistons, and bore anyways. Couldn't hurt. Fixing these old three wheelers is fun and beats a 4 wheeler payment any day. Gauge could be off. It is one of those eBay Chinese specials. The bike has plenty of power when in high RPM, but vibrates badly. Anymore input would be greatly appreciated.

The seat cover is this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=011&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=320151365848&rd=1

[Yamada]

Do you perform the compression test with the carb at wide open throttle???
May be it is a cause of your low compression??

[hancadam]

Well crap, that just blew my theory out of the water. After 3 pulls holding the throttle all the way in it reads 130 psi. Maybe I am just expecting too much. My 200x would carry me up any hill in second no problem. This bike seems to be struggling. Are the 200s and 185s rear sprockets the same? Top speed seems to be really fast(for 185s). Maybe the 200s rear sprocket (200s rear end on 185s) is different and the 22 inch ITP mud lites re geared it. I will count the teeth next. Thanks guys for the input. I am trying to not ask retarded questions.

[hancadam]

OK I may be stupid. The 185s stock sprocket is 41 tooth. The 200s rear end that is on there is 43 tooth. Also the itp mud lites are a little taller. I think i found why its struggling. Does this sound right? Maybe thats why it seems pretty fast on the top end. Thanks again for the help. I have a new axle on its way from eBay. Some schmuck welded the hub to its original axle.

[Rustytinhorn]

Just a stab in the dark here.....is the exhaust pipe plugged?

[hancadam]

Nope. The baffle is removed. Will a two tooth downsize on the rear sprocket make a big difference? Thanks for the idea though. I just recently removed it and painted it.

[84honda200s]

Nope. The baffle is removed. Will a two tooth downsize on the rear sprocket make a big difference? Thanks for the idea though. I just recently removed it and painted it.




it will make a difference sure. if you want more pick up why dont you get a smaller front sprocket ? they are cheaper. i put a 8 tooth on the front of my 200s. i went up hills with eas.

[hancadam]

Will do. I already have a 41 tooth for the rear. I may want to go smaller. If so I will get a smaller front. So does smaller on front and back equal more torque? Thanks, Adam.

[84honda200s]

small front gives better low end yes. big front gives ya more top end. id imagine it goes for the same on the rear. not sure though.

[hancadam]

Great info. I just ordered a 10 tooth from eBay for 12 bucks shipped. I will just try different setups. I only really care about low end torque. I am building this bike for mud and hill climbing. I seem to wreck to much for any real speed. Thats why I sold my YZ490. I like a bike that I can out ride, not a bike that can out ride me(Which doesn't take much). I think the re gearing will go a long way. I never thought about the sprockets being different. DUHHHHHHHH!!!! Believe it or not this is the 5th 3 wheeler I have built, and several dirtbikes also. I am good with the engines but lame when it comes to gearing and real riding skill. Its all fun though. Thanks again for the help!

[jeffatc250r]

a smaller rear sprocket will give you more speed,....just drop a tooth or 2 in the front to get more torque

[McDerry]

Does the 200 motor run??

The wiring harness is the same between it and the 185, same hp, but the 200 has more torque.

[Jim mac]

have you checked the timing on the trike? Im sure if its off, youll lose a bunch of power. Good luck. jim

[bigreddaddy]

How does it perform on flat land? If its only struggling on hills then I would think its a gearing problem.

[US904sho]

130 PSI isnt much compression either, but it is decient, put the new sproket on and if that worked then congrats, if it doesnt do the top end re build and it should be fine with the added compression.

[trikes4life]

the 200s and 185s are the same engine, just different bore size. Put the 200s, engine in it, drop one tooth and keep the stock rear sprocket. A top end job would change the power out put greatly though.

[hancadam]

Thanks for the suggestions. I probably will go ahead and replace the top end. The stock 185s has a 41 tooth sprocket, but the 43 tooth is on there. So shouldn't the gearing be better now for torque? It really only struggles with hills and mud. Otherwise it is fast. On top it is faster than I expected, but the engine seems to vibrate badly. I will see how the 10 tooth does, then if its not better top end will be replaced. I am thinking about putting a high compression piston and a 200x cam in the 200s engine to build a autoX. So maybe looking for a 200x soon. I loved my 83 200x. My 86 was awesome too but very hard to locate parts. So I was scared to really have fun with it. Back to the 185s, I think its a combo of the bigger tires, differnet sprocket, and weak engine. Thanks again for the assistance.

[kamik333]

You speak of lack of power and that you did an endo...did it have power BEFORE to flipped it? Or was that the first time running it? I assume that the air filter/fuel delivery is good and that the brakes are not dragging...

[hancadam]

It had the weak power before I flipped it. I was going to fast when I hit a jump. It had been a wile since I have been riding so I was over zealous. Went a little crazy and got a little to comfortable. It has a new uni filter, but the carb could be lazy. I haven't done anything to it. I bought the bike along with the 200s for 300 bucks and made one good trike with the available parts. Basically to get it running I just put gas in it and installed the air filter. 4 pulls and it started. Also I did clean out the tank. Idles great and revs smoothly. If you punch it, it does cut out for a second though.

[bigreddaddy]

Maybe check your clutch.

[hancadam]

It was gearing. I put the 41 tooth on the rear with 10 on the front. This made a huge difference. The bike is actual pretty quick now. It also got rid of a lot of the vibration. Also replaced the rear bearings and greased the rear axle. This probably helped a lot also. It was pretty rusty and very dry, basically no grease. Thanks again for all the help.

[rally4x4racer]

cool - glad you got it figured out.

[hancadam]

I am excited about it. I also put a better looking pull start on it.