Anyone running an open air filter (85 tri z)

[chris200x]

Just like the title says.. what K&N will bolt directly to the carb. I believe all the filters have a part number dont they?

It doesn't seem like there's a whole lot of room with the rear gastank and over flow bottle though. anyone got any pics?

I'm looking to sup up the Z a bit since I already have most of it apart.. what else can I do that wont cost a ton of cash?

Also.. the stock carb.. what size mm is it and whats a better option?

[03 ORANGE SHEE]

i used to use a 4 inch uni
now since theres no tank there, now its a 12 inch k@n

[Huffa]

You sure you just would not rather run a K&N inside the air box ? You'll have to clean it a lot more often and possibly rejet ?

There are those filter skins but in conditions you ride I'd rather run it in the box.

Your carb is a 32MM.

[ATC-Eric]

I run a K&N in my airbox with the lid off. Lets it breath a whole lot more, keeps the filter cleaner and dry, AND makes a really cool throaty noise when you ride it! :naughty:

I still run the airbox cover, just no lid on the box itself.

[chris200x]

I was wondering about that throaty sound! I thought I had something hooked up wrong at first. lol

Most of my freinds I ride with locally are running open K&N's (some even without outerwears) with no problems at all. I'll just have to learn to go around puddles instead of blasting through them.

I still have to tweak the carb so I'm trying to decide what to do. What size is the stock 250R carb and is there any noticable diffrence? Or maybe I should ask how big of a carb can i put on there without really stuggling to get it on?

[Huffa]

I was wondering about that throaty sound! I thought I had something hooked up wrong at first. lol

Most of my freinds I ride with locally are running open K&N's (some even without outerwears) with no problems at all. I'll just have to learn to go around puddles instead of blasting through them.

I still have to tweak the carb so I'm trying to decide what to do. What size is the stock 250R carb and is there any noticable diffrence? Or maybe I should ask how big of a carb can i put on there without really stuggling to get it on?

Yea no problems till they need a top end in 20 hours :lol:

:wondering I don't know why so many are into the K&N's, they don't breath THAT much better then a stock foam one. I like the foam more myself, even though my R came with two GIANT, THEIR HUGE !! K&N jobs.

84 R is a 30, not sure about 85/6, maybe a 32 like yours .

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v253/huffa/DSC04757.jpg

[Chevy200s]

Not only does it give that cool throaty sound, but it also allows for resonance. I have been doing a little research on 2 stroke engines and I was suprised to find that similar to the shape of the exhaust pipe, the shape and way in which air enters the carb is very important. This might all be incorrect I'm just learning, and it also might depend on different types of 2 strokes, but from what I read right after you get combustion and the exhaust is pushed out, there is a "shock wave" or some sort of wave that resonates back from the pipe to combustion chamber, and actually back out to the air box. Somehow this wave is directly related to how air is drawn in

This is a quote from one of the pages I read that is basically saying the same thing. I honestly dont know if I beleive the part about holes in the box or cover removed though, because my R does run better with cover off. Then again, maybe thats because its not jetted properly for cover on and this helps lean it? Either way, here it is, pretty interesting. sorry for such a long post


[QUOTE]
A modern engine with valve overlap will naturally have a dip in the torque at about a third to a half the red line rpm. If the air box is tuned to have minimum resistance to air flow at this rpm, the dip in the torque curve will be partially filled in by the ease of pulling air into the engine.

So, your air box is most likely designed to add horsepower in the mid-range. The air box will have little or no effect on peak hp.

Years ago, before airboxes were designed as resonant systems, it used to be popular to cut additional holes in the air box to allow more air flow for high rpm. This is no longer a good idea. Modern air boxes can flow much more air than the engine will ever use. Modern engines have throttle bodies or carburetors with throats that are typically about 45mm in diameter, about 16 sq.cm in area. The inlet snorkel to a modern air box will be roughly 300 to 800 sq.cm - much larger than the throttle body or carburetor throat. The idea that the snorkel makes for a significant impediment to air flow into the engine is questionable at best. Drilling holes to let in more air is exactly equivalent to drilling holes in your speaker cabinets to let out more sound. Removing the snorkel from your air box is the exact same thing as removing the port in your speakers, the tube that's carefully engineered to have just the right diameter and length to reinforce the bass on your speakers at low frequencies. By altering your air box in any significant fashion, you're most likely going to cost yourself three to five hp in the mid range, and gain nothing measurable at high rpms.
[QUOTE]

http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Airboxes.html


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Arbeitsweise_Zweitakt.gif

http://www.scribd.com/doc/3258/A-Graham-Bell-Two-Stroke-Performance-Tuning

[Huffa]

Yep, I read stuff simular to that too about 4 strokes and I'm a beliver that you should run them with air box installed.

good info! :beer

Still want to run no box Chris ? :lol:

[Tri-ZNate]

No box is fine chris but i'd run an outwear in the coal. The K&N doesnt let dirt in as bad as people say. I have one on my Z with the lid off and it ran great. If you want more airflow and dont like the stock setup you can cut your box in half, so the filter still bolts to the stock location but has TONS of air flow. I dont know what the tri-z gods would say about hacking up a stock box though :wondering:

[ATC-Eric]

On the filter note, you STILL should run an outerwear when you have a K&N in your airbox. Dust gets EVERYWHERE.

I personally am about to switch back to a UNI. Like Huffa stated, the K&N's dont breath that much better, and can allow more to get through even with the outerwear.

Good luck Chris.

[chris200x]

All you really gotta do is keep a K&N well oiled and keep away from water. Sure it's more maintence.. but how hard is loosing a clamp off the back of the carb and cleaning a filter???

I got a new moose foam filter in there now.. and no lid. I only have maybe 2 hours of seat time on this trike. It's also my first two stroke.. so this is all new to me.

It was idling fine.. but the first half of the throttle it boggs a bit and this is where that "throaty sound" comes into play. I thought (or it seems to me) the motor is starving for air (or at least that what it seems like). This is my reasoning for thinking an open K&N will work better... or a bigger carb even. The top half of the throttle the trike screams.. and I really can't hear.. or notice that throaty sound.

I really dont have alot of experience tuning carbs. perhaps this is all it really needs..

Chevy200s.. thanks for your post and those links. I didn't have a chance to read through everything as of yet but I will now.

[Huffa]

YOU, keep away from water ? :lol:

Your usually the submarine of the crew !

[brapp]

if you ahve an open filter and its jeted for a fullairbox its starving for fuelnot air try messign with the choke slightly when you try and se eif it bogs with 1/2 choke. if it improves with a little choke applied it will need to be rejeted so it doesnt cqause problems from runnign lean. and yes a k&n is fine with an airbox but when you run it down by the tires and it alows it to suck in much more dirt and coal. i dont care what anyone says they do flow a littl ebit more airbut alsp provide poor filteration. and also what happens when the clamp comes of fan du loose the filter otu inthe coal country and suck allthat dirt and *Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited* into your motor. it happene dto me on a banshee once out there not good
at least with the airbox and allinstalled it adds a little protectionfrom water and fine dust.

[chris200x]

YOU, keep away from water ? :lol:

Your usually the submarine of the crew !

good point!!! :crazy:

Eh.. after reading through some of the info above I'm confused more now than ever. :lol:

I'll freakin pay someone local to tune this thing so I can just get on and ride... any takers? :rolleyes: :D sorry can't afford shop rates though... :banned:

[Yamahondaman]

Why would you want an OPEN K&N ? .. Parer Filter's are for Car's on the High Way

[chris200x]

It's not that I'm dead set on doing this setup Ronnie.. I was just stating what I seen guys doing locally on banshees and 400EX's.. and I've NEVER seen or heard of a filter falling off until now....

I just want this moneypit running properly so I can enjoy my hard work...

[Yamahondaman]

WELL ? .. LOT's of people run them "thing's" ... i'm just skeered about sand getting into peoples motors... one "Piece" of abrasion or heat in a 2-cycle motor kills it .. now i know that some people use them things at certain times and track condition's like Clay,wet,packed,HIGH Density Soil,etc. , and then when they go to other area's in the country thats dry,dusty and Sandy .. they install the Foamy ..
iv'e allway's wanted to do that to my RAG and Jet it UP abit but some people "like me" can't afford to re-build there motor's that often .....
i need to "Produce" MORE of the Set Up That I have .. VERY Protective and Breathable Item for the ....................... AWSOME TRI-Z :naughty:

[Huffa]

Why would you want an OPEN K&N ? .. Parer Filter's are for Car's on the High Way

Well their not paper, more of a woven mesh of a cloth fiber, but I agree with you, their better off for steet use.

I say what he has now is the hot set up, he's just bored :lol:

Your better off just buying two cases of Yeungling, Chris.:lol:

[chris200x]

You guys kill me.. I'm trying to have a civilized discussion here.. :naughty: :lol:

Yes I was bored.. so I just was out there and got my top end back on.. very easy. not sure what the problem was before.. :wondering I was also having this same discussion with the dude at the shop.. he seems to agree.. foam is better... ;)

Already halfway through my first 12 pack! :D I'm gonna fire this sumbitch up bright and early tomorrow! :w00t:

still gonna have to mess with the carb tho.. :(
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e137/chrisr200x/Hazleton9-3007.jpg

[Huffa]

:beer Congradulations on your 1st top end job !!

I'll be up tomorrow to celebrate ..... and for doing such fine work, I made a "cake" for ya! :D

[chris200x]

Whoa! Pabst!? that's old school. :lol: :banned:

The bogging at low rpms is that the slow jet? can it be a simple as just messing with the air screw?

[factoryX]

i run a open air filter and it runs fine wet or dry...

[brapp]

well you can use the choke to determine f it is runnign lean or ritch. try revign it with the choke slightly up if it gets better its lean and if it gets worse your tooritch. and if you need help tuning it just let me know. i will bring my jets down and get r squared away.

[chris200x]

well you can use the choke to determine f it is runnign lean or ritch. try revign it with the choke slightly up if it gets better its lean and if it gets worse your tooritch. and if you need help tuning it just let me know. i will bring my jets down and get r squared away.


Thanks bud! gimme a call tomorrow afternoon!