Paddles for a 200X, HELP!!

[Mastacator]

Ha Ha!! Yeah, I'd like to get some paddles for my 84 200X, but I'm having issues deciding what I need, want, and what I can find for an affordable price.
I would love to get anything by Skat Trak, but I just can't swing it right now. So I need help finding something cheaper, that will work well.
Here is where I'm at. I've been looking at AMS tires, Sand Snakes, and Sidewinders. I've also look at Sand Star.... But they are a little much. I've looked at Gecko's too, but undecided.
I've been leaning toward the AMS Sand Snakes honestly. Found them for $55/ea.
I've searched and searched, and I've found many opinions on many different tires. But I still need your help, more specific to my application.

Some info on my X, since I've read that the amount of power your machine has has an effect on the paddles you run.
Its an 84 200X, 12:1 piston, 28mm mikuni flatslide carb, Webcamshaft 0.34 lift cam, Ported/polished XR200 head, DG Krome power exhaust, XR200 6 spd trans. Thats what its got right now, with maybe a little something more coming later on. ;)

So whatcha think? I have a set of 9" rims, that I would like to use, but I have found there to be less of a selection in 9", especially in the skat traks. Tho, I might be able to get some stock 8" one off my brother.
I seen a little blurb about the sidewall height, but unfamilar with the effect it has, other than ride cushness.
So, what kind of effect will the rim size have on me here?
Straight blade or V?
6 paddle or 8?

Like I said, I know a little bit of this stuff from searching the forums, its just bits and peices though, and has not led me to any sort of conclusion. So, please if any of you would, enlighten me.

Thanks in advance!!!
:)

[mymint87]

:postwhore 200x?:postwhore ....rider size matters....don't purchase anything too aggressive

look into some Padla Brats:welcome:



take a peek at the 4 way grooved sand skates tailored to your Trike

http://www.sandtiresunlimited.com/sandtire1.html

[Rustytinhorn]

The taller sidewall is supposed to give you more flex. This is supposed to help absorb some of the shock when going over rough terrain. Also the added flex will help keep the footprint on the ground better and so it doesn't slide as easy when going sideways. Its like a pencil eraser. The longer the rubber erasor is, the less it likes to drag over the paper, but when it gets worn down and is really short it will slide more easily while still retaining its shape. Also taller sidewalls help protect the rim more by giving it more clearance from the ground.

Some other things that go hand in hand with sidewall height and flex is:
Air pressure
Radial or Bias Tire Design
# of plys your tire is


Air Pressure: The lower the air pressure the more flex, smoother ride, larger footprint, and in most cases better traction. However it also makes your sidewalls droop out more, increasing the chance of puncturing an exposed sidewall. Also too low of pressure can lead to rolling the sidewall or breaking the bead on the rim.

Radial tires will give more flex, smoother ride, larger footprint, better puncture resistance (I think), and more traction. The only bad thing about radial is the sidewalls sag out a little bit due to the radial design of the tire, whereas bias tires arent supposed to have any sidewall sag unless they are flat! Radial is still by far a better tire.

# Of Plys: The more plies a tire is made out of the more puncture resistance it has, but it also increases the tires stiffness and weight due to the extra material.

Your rim size will effect you sidewall height, and also the selection of what tires you can run.

From what I understand, straight paddles are supposed to give you better straight line hookup and straight hill climbing hookup. They will slide though if trying to ride a hill sideways. Also they are known for being hard to steer under power. Some will argue this point though. It really depends on the consistancy of the sand and your riding style, technique, and experience.
V blades are supposed to be better for more recreation riding and sidehilling. Supposed to be easy to steer in all power levels. V blade offers exceptional sidehill stability and will not slide out from under you. V blade is supposed to be an all around good tire, while the straightblades are more for straightline hill shooting. Either one, some love one and hate the other, and some hate the other and love the one. Its almost more of a personal preference.

Your rim size will also determine how much slide you will get out of your paddle tires on the sand. Big rim and little sidewall is suppoed to slide easier. Smaller rim and big sidewall is supposed to not slide as easy.
I've always wanted to try the AMS Zippers or Pro Wedge 2 tires. I dont know if my 200 is powerfull enough to be able to handle full blown paddle tires.

[Levithan]

I have Pro Wedge IIs on my bike, and its pretty nice. You can use them as all around tires, and mount them backwards when you wanna go into the sand. Not sure where to find them anymore, but my pair came with my bike, and they've worked well in every terrain that ive ridden. Good luck on your search!

[GPracer2500]

There is some personal preference when it comes to paddles. As Rustytinhorn mentioned, things like riding style, line choice, and aggressiveness (more aggressive riding calls for less paddles) can all push you one direction or another. So bear that in mind as I give my opinions. However, I do believe that for a large part--->What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Which dunes matters a lot too. ISDRA (Glamis) sand is not the same as Little Sahara sand, for example. I hear about folks using crazy high paddle counts in LS that would be way too much paddle in Glamis.

Whatever you do, DON'T overpaddle. IMO, many people overpaddle their rides without realizing how much performance they are giving up. Too little is better than too much unless all you do is put-put. Power is at a premium in dunes and too much paddle kills your power once you're out of 3rd gear or so. No way I'd want an 8 paddle anything (even a Skat-Trak Glider) on a built 200X in the ISDRA. 6 paddle max. Hell, for my riding style--I'd probably rather run fresh knobbies than most paddles. The trick there is picking good lines, carrying momentum (which you'll have to do anyway), and knowing how to avoid the frustration of getting stuck all the time. You do not need paddles to be fast in the sand. But if you go without you do need solid sand experience.

Without the benefit of testing, it's hard to say what is ideal for your bike for where you're going to be riding. A 6 paddle Glider would be my first stab at the right paddle. Testing is great but hard to do (you've got to have paddles available to barrow). Hence, most folks I know just buy a set and never know anything different.



Much of the following may not be specifically relevant for your 200X. But I'm sharing in the hope you may glean some general truths I believe about paddle tires. Some of it you may be able to apply to your situation.

I've done a fair amount of paddle tire testing with my 250r (some mods) in the ISDRA. I've done back to back testing with 6 paddle single buff Skat-Trak Haulers, 8 paddle Sand Sharks (very similar to Sidewinders), and 8 paddle Kenda Dune Hoppers (very similar to Sand Snakes). The 6 Haulers where hands down better in nearly every respect. With a "perfect" run and cool weather I can pull 5th up Oldsmobile hill. That's impossible with SandSharks or Dune Hoppers. 4th vs. 5th on Olds on my 250r is the difference between competitive drag racing against the 450's and non-competitiveness. The right paddle makes THAT much difference. Not just for dragging either. The 6 Haulers snaked better too. The engine is just so much more responsive.

Since I can't afford the paddle I really want (STU comp cut 6 paddle Padla Brats or BB or 3x buff 6 Haulers) I decided to experiment with improving a set I already had....I learned a LOT and wound up with a tire that was much improved (if not quite the 6 Hauler performance I was shooting for).




Here's how I comp cut my own paddles. I bought one of these hot iron tire groovers. I think it was under $100 delivered with 2 different sized blade/head packs.

http://www.cometkartsales.com/store/tools/images/tiregroover.jpg


In my paddle testing I found that less (traction and paddle tire weight) is more (speed) when it comes to my riding (aggressive style on a 250r, equal parts dragging and snaking) in my conditions (ISDRA). The difference between a 6 paddle Hauler and an 8 paddle Sand Shark was dramatic. After riding with the 6 Haulers (barrowed) I felt sick about having to go back to my SandSharks.

So I started with a 20x11x8 Sand Shark on .125 rims. One of them weighed 17lbs 6 oz, the other 17lbs 11.2 oz. I started by shaving the carcass down by removing strips of rubber. The learning curve is steep! I used a 3/4" wide blade at first. The cut depth is adjustable. The first "panel" turned out ugly. My groover (250w) just couldn't put enough heat into the rubber to make long, smooth, consistent cuts at that width. So I resorted to using a narrower blade and making more cuts.

Here's a pic of the first panel I did and the last panel I did on the first tire. You can see how bad the first attempt turned out--irregular and ugly. I got better after each panel competed. Ergonomics is important when doing this. It takes a lot of muscle and time! I ended up wearing a brace on my wrist to help with fatigue.
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/3554/p11900931ii.jpg

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/1822/p11900840fa.jpg

Here's another view of the same tire showing only the better panels.
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/391/p11900864qk.jpg

The depth of my cuts. I went a little deeper on the second tire and would just barely hit cord here and there.
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/5609/p11900793mo.jpg

I ordered a medium width blade before I did the second tire. Less cuts needed but still narrow enough to make clean, consistent cuts.
http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/2414/p9040069dj4.jpg

The side walls were VERY hard to do neatly. On the first tire I experimented with different types of cuts and methods but nothing was coming out nicely. Besides a few experimental cuts on the second tire, I left those sidewalls alone. The tire where I tried to do the sidewalls looks like crap.

At first I left the paddle blades themselves alone and had what's shown above with the tire next to the box. Then I shortened them to this:
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6854/p2110177mediumzx7.jpg

I ran the paddles at Gordens Well like that and they were an improvement. But there was too much traction. All the weight reduction improved performance. But my first paddle blade lowering cuts basically brought them back to the same height I started with before dropping the carcass down.

I made two series of paddle blade cuts after that with testing in between. At first I just took some off. Eventually I cut the blades to Glider-type height and had this. You can see the ugly first tire in the background:
http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/5186/p2110186mediumzu9.jpg

Then I was really getting somewhere. I tested again and was satisfied. They nearly perform in a drag like a 6 Hauler. The difference is they don't have the initial bite of a 6 Hauler at launch (perhaps the V-design is to blame?). They're still workable and I can launch "fine"--but the 6 Haulers are better all around.

After my final cuts I had the tire/wheel combos down to 12lbs 9oz and 12lbs 14oz. That's almost 5lbs less per tire! That's a lot of weight gone from one of the worst places you could have it.

Perhaps the greatest benefit I've taken away from doing this is what I learned about paddle tires during the process. Judging differences in tire weight and traction in progressive stages really highlighted what the effects are on performance. If you've got some tires you don't really care about anyway then I'd recommend it. It is a lot of work though. I spent many hours on each tire. I'm sure a better cutter (500w or more) would make the job easier, faster, and better overall. But don't expect your first set to come out all that great. I tried making my first cuts on a junk tire to get a feel for it but the rubber was hard and it didn't really translate into what the groover did on the tires I actually wanted to cut.

[chris200x]

DAYUM GPracer. Great write up! :beer

[4cylinders]

hey, rockymountainatv/mc.com kenda, are like 40. buy 99, get free shipping.

[breastman569]

the best straight cut tire that i have ridden that is cheap is the GBC sand devil for a molded tire its not all that bad. check it out!

[Mastacator]

Wow!! Thanks for the info guys!!! :w00t:
Rustytin, and GP, awesome!!! Exactly the kind of info I've been looking for!!!
Anyone else with that kind of info, please, post up, its great stuff!!
:beer