Experiences with Helicoil? *Update*

[Tantrix]

My friend who recently stripped his oil drain threads on his 250SX is considering bringing his trike to a local ATV shop to have the crankcase drilled and a Helicoil put in. He wasn't going to, but he came across extra money and got quoted a good price ($25 for a Helicoil install). He is using an oversize M12-1.75 drain plug right now, but is doing a full restoration on his bike so he doesn't want to cut any corners. Neither me or him have ever used a Helicoil so we have some questions maybe some of you guys can answer.

I've heard they are just as good or better than stock threads on sealing and thread strength, is this true? I'm assuming he'll be less likely to have a leak after having a Helicoil installed than using that oversize plug he has in now?

If you have any experience using Helicoils (especially on the crankcase/oil drain threads) feel free to share your results and opinions.

[ATC-Eric]

Ive used lots of heli-coil's, there great! When you heli-coil, it IS stronger then stock. I believe someone round here informed me before that all the major bolts on airplanes are heli-coiled because its so strong.

Ive never done an oil plug before, but can imagine he will be satisfied!

$25 isnt bad at all to pay someone to do it.

good luck.

[Tantrix]

Ive used lots of heli-coil's, there great! When you heli-coil, it IS stronger then stock. I believe someone round here informed me before that all the major bolts on airplanes are heli-coiled because its so strong.

Ive never done an oil plug before, but can imagine he will be satisfied!

$25 isnt bad at all to pay someone to do it.

good luck.


That's good to hear. The self-tapping oversize plug he has in it now tapped some very good strong threads but he thinks he's having to torque the plug too hard to get a good seal between the 12mm aluminum washer and the crankcase. If he doesn't torque it hard he gets moisture around the washer (oil). The guy at the ATV shop said with the stock Honda 12mm aluminum washer, once the washer touches the crankcase you turn it an extra 1/8 of a turn and that's it. He tried this and he had moisture around the washer after a few hours. It didn't drip, but it was moist around the washer...I ran my finger around the washer myself and I did have a little fresh oil on the tip of my finger. He then loosened it and when the washer touched the crankcase he turned it an extra 1/3 of a turn which was pretty snug. He doesn't know if this extra tightness is going to work yet though, he hasn't ran it again yet to see if he gets oil around the washer.

I told him leave it alone unless it really starts leaking (so did the guy at the shop that quoted him the price on the Helicoil install) but he's nit-picky and doesn't want a single bit of oil around that plug/washer. It is kind of annoying I guess.

[blue27]

25 is not bad since a Helicoil kit costs more than that, If you do Drill it out to 14mm for a helicoil cover the drill bit in gease so it collects most of the metal shavings, and keeps most of them out of the engine, a little bit will not hurt since the screen will stop them before it goes to engine.

[jason 32]

there ok- but it could be welded up and re taped- for the oem specs-
i would use a bigger bolt - just re tap it- if possible-
depends on the perfection your looking for- exact stock- weld it - re tap it-

heli coils need to sit against something- (bottom out) or they can come out with the bolt when removing it--- even then there still is that possibility-

and your not suppose to (stack them)- or use them on heads/ cams/ect....
but they worked ok on my kz 1000 cam bolts-

just my experiance with them---

[Tantrix]

His main concern is the Helicoil being a better seal and all-around better threads than the self-tapped ones the oversize plug made. He was wondering if he still might have leaking problems but I'd assume the Helicoil would eliminate that. The threads he has are pretty damn tough, the self tapping plug made some nice ones but that moisture around his aluminum washer is driving him crazy. He said if Helicoils will solve that then he is going to bring it to the shop tomorrow for sure. I told him hold off and let me ask you guys first, then he could decide what he's going to do.

Thanks for the help fellas...keep it coming. :beer

[R Nutt]

Everyone has there own opinion, and my opinion, Heli-Coils are Junk and a waste of time and money! I have a set of Time Serts that i bought when i used to work in the service department at a local Kawasaki dealership. You as a customer can go to any Kawasaki dealership and buy the kits, or request the repair to be done with a time sert instead of helicoil. the kits come in several sizes and pitches from 6mm all the way up to 14mm they are not "coils" like the helicoils are. They are a threaded steel sleeve, that will not come out once installed, and will not weep oil around the "slinky coil" like helicoils do.
Tomorrow i will post a thread with pictures on how to install time serts then you can form your own opinion.

[tecat-z]

While heli-coils do have their place in some lower stress applications, time serts are the far surerior method to permanently fix a stripped thread. Mainly head stud threads in cylinders and cylinder stud threads in cases. They cost much more than heli-coils and require patients and proper alignment when installing and making your initial cuts and cutting threads for inserts. But it is the best way to permanently fix hashed threads.

[RedRider_AK]

and your not suppose to use them on heads/ cams/ect....

Uhh I've heard my Yamaha dealer recommend Heli-Coiling a plug hole that stripped the threads due to a plug blowout.

[Tantrix]

Everyone has there own opinion, and my opinion, Heli-Coils are Junk and a waste of time and money! I have a set of Time Serts that i bought when i used to work in the service department at a local Kawasaki dealership. You as a customer can go to any Kawasaki dealership and buy the kits, or request the repair to be done with a time sert instead of helicoil. the kits come in several sizes and pitches from 6mm all the way up to 14mm they are not "coils" like the helicoils are. They are a threaded steel sleeve, that will not come out once installed, and will not weep oil around the "slinky coil" like helicoils do.
Tomorrow i will post a thread with pictures on how to install time serts then you can form your own opinion.

I agree, Time Serts do indeed sound good, but after researching them they seem harder to find and more expensive than Helicoils. If we can find some sort of bike repair shop that can/will install them that will probably be what he goes with but I have a feeling Helicoil is going to be the only option at the shops around here.

So far I've heard more good things about Helicoils than bad things. I guess it all depends on how well they are installed, what metal they're installed in, and probably many other factors. All we're needing is some strong good sealing threads, and I hope Helicoil can deliver because like I said earlier it's probably going to be our only option. :eek:

[R Nutt]

after researching them they seem harder to find and more expensive than Helicoils. :


Like i said, Every kawasaki shop can order them through kawasaki Hard Parts.
The kawasaki service department service tools catalog has kawasaki part numbers listed for them.

m8x1.25 time sert kit part number w56019-008

and the 12mm kit you need for your drain plug:
m12x1.5 part number t57001142

remember these are kawasaki part numbers that you can walk up to any kawasaki dealer and order them.

[DIGGER DOG]

Definately use the time serts I work at a Honda yamaha kawasaki dealership heli coil is a quick fix but the time serts
are far superior but take a little time and patience to install
and a bit more expensive.I just re tapped a drain plug hole on a bayou 220 and lucked out the hole was not badly damaged
so a retap worked fine just cleaned the threads up on hole as it was aluminum and bolt was steel.
I have a 86 250sx that drain hole plug has been siliconed up
once i resume restore on unit and pull plug to inspect damage
and if a retap wont work I plan to time sert it.

[Dirtcrasher]

Time serts are great and work fantastic. There are lots of different names for them but many threaded inserts work great. The only thing is that they have a thicker wall than the helicoil and cannot be used in some applications. I believe helicoils only require 2mm additional diameter to be installed. Honda doesn't leave allot of extra material around threads and sometimes they can't be used.

Honestly, I've wrenched for 20 years and was a machinist for 11 of them. I have used at least a couple of hundred helicoils and done one on a 1986 250SX that is still working just fine.

I would NEVER weld or add heat to an aluminum case unless I absolutely had to.

[Tantrix]

Well, he dropped the trike off at the shop today....it looks like it is indeed going to be a Helicoil. The guy checked out the threads the self-tapping oversize plug made and said they were great but the plug likely tapped at a slight angle naked to the human eye which is what's preventing the aluminum washer from sealing correctly. He said he was going to use a jig and drill/tap the threads for Helicoil then check the outer portion of the drain hole, if it is not perfectly aligned with the threads he is going to insert a tool into the hole that will show him which side isn't even and the tool will lap the surface of the crankcase perfectly aligned with the hole and smooth it to ensure a perfect seal. Sounds like a plan....especially for $25.





I also talked with a guy that was some kind of engineer/mechanic whatever in the Navy, and he had this to say:

"We used Helicoils in Diesel engines in the Navy in all-aluminum engines (Minesweepers, no magnetic stuff) and torqued the heads to about 800 foot pounds. It ain't the Helicoils. It's the installation or the application."


800 ft-lbs?! Damn...if Helicoils are capable of that then I'm sure it should work fine for his drain plug. I'll have to remind him to not let his pet gorilla torque it when he changes his oil. :D

[R Nutt]

Check this video out, it explains how to use time serts.

http://www.timesert.com/video/StandardRepair.wmv

http://www.timesert.com/


Here is the kit prices from bike bandit.com
T57001142 KIT OILDRNPLG M12X1.5 $50.71
W56019-008 KIT,THRD RR, M8X1.25 $36.73
W56019-006 KIT,THRD RR, M6X1.0 $35.63

Great prices! Use it once and it pays for itself!

[Tantrix]

Well, got the trike back from the shop this past Friday. Ran it all weekend long pretty hard, then this evening stood it up on it's end. No moisture/oil around the drain plug at all....the Helicoil worked perfectly. The 12mm-1.75 self-tapping oversize plug was replaced by the stock 12mm-1.50 drain bolt w/ aluminum washer and it torques much tighter and seals 100% up against the spot-faced crankcase. This was my first time seeing Helicoils in action first-hand and I'm impressed. It pays to have an experienced mechanic with the proper tools do the job as well, since it would have probably still leaked if it had not been drilled/tapped perfectly straight and the crankcase spot-faced to ensure a good seal.

A+ for Helicoils...just make sure you get them done by a professional. :TrikesOwn

[bigreddaddy]

I bought a Kawasaki KLX110 quad recently for $50, and it is in GREAT shape. The seller was an older man who had it for his grandkids to ride.
Anyway, he said there were 2 problems. A stripped spark plug hole and no fire. Well I found that the on/off switch is wired backwards, so I now have spark. I used Permatex Fix-A-Thread on the stripped hole after doing a search here and it worked fine. But once I clean the carb and get it running I'll find out for sure how well it does work. It cost under $10 for the Permatex.