252.5 mile wheelie

[riverrat]

Well not exactly, but it sure looked that way, on the back of my truck.

While everyone was sleeping on Sunday, a 250R poped up on ebay with a buy it now of $1000. I grabbed it.

When I got there, the guy took off another $100, and I didn't even ask him too.

It was sold as a rebuildable trike, but it starts and rides.

So far I see 4 things wrong with it.
Bear with me, I am not too familiar with the 250R.

The resiviour is not mounted, and flopping around.
The clutch does not fully disengage, looks like a cable issue. It is adjusted to its max.
Right in front of the front sproket, looks like the chain came off, and did some damge, there is a repair there, so it will need some welding I guess. I'll have to scrape the repair.
But the thing that worries me the most, is what appears to be a filler cap (looks like the oil filler cap on a four stroke) seems to have milky fluid in it, and that means water could be getting in that area.

I am not sure what that filler hole is for? Gear case fluid? Can water even get in there from the cooling system?

Other than that, the thing screams, and all switches and lights work, plastic is in pretty good shape.

I want to get it good mechanically, and ride it a bit, then I will do a frame-off restoration to it.

Advice is welcome.

[RedRider_AK]

If your water pump bearings go bad, I think it can leak water in there. That was supposedly a common problem with the new z400 quadsports, so it might not be true here, but just throwin that out there for ya. I wouldn't worry about that left-side cover being JB Welded or whatever unless you're seriously racing or restoring the trike. Just save your time and money. The filler cap is for the transmission, I believe. Another way it could have "milky fluid" is if the previous owner sunk it in deep water or somehow got water in the breather tube.

[riverrat]

For correction, the reseviour that is hanging is for the rear mono shock.
I would love to see a pictue of how it is mounted, so I can determine what to do.

Thanks for the advice redrider.
I guess I will drain it out, and then flush it, and refill with some fresh fluid.
Any clue what goes in there?

I need to purchase a manual. :)

[RedRider_AK]

You should flush it with diesel, it'll get the rest of the water.

As for what goes in the tranny, I've heard lots of different stuff, everything from regular 10w40 to 80 weight hypoid oil, to 50 weight tranny-specific oil. I'd suggest you ask around, maybe some of the racers will recommend something.

[200x newby]

honda dealer. honda makes a specific oil for the 250r tranny.

[Dammit!]

Not a bad deal. I know where I can pick up a running '85 right now for $800. I offered him $600 in an e-mail but haven't heard back yet. I'd pay the $800 if it was an '86.

[firefirefire90]

honda dealer. honda makes a specific oil for the 250r tranny.

You don't need Honda oil. Golden Spectro works just the same. I use 80w but that is because of the heat down here.

[250rfan]

Well not exactly, but it sure looked that way, on the back of my truck.

While everyone was sleeping on Sunday, a 250R poped up on ebay with a buy it now of $1000. I grabbed it.

When I got there, the guy took off another $100, and I didn't even ask him too.

It was sold as a rebuildable trike, but it starts and rides.

So far I see 4 things wrong with it.
Bear with me, I am not too familiar with the 250R.

The resiviour is not mounted, and flopping around.
The clutch does not fully disengage, looks like a cable issue. It is adjusted to its max.
Right in front of the front sproket, looks like the chain came off, and did some damge, there is a repair there, so it will need some welding I guess. I'll have to scrape the repair.
But the thing that worries me the most, is what appears to be a filler cap (looks like the oil filler cap on a four stroke) seems to have milky fluid in it, and that means water could be getting in that area.

I am not sure what that filler hole is for? Gear case fluid? Can water even get in there from the cooling system?

Other than that, the thing screams, and all switches and lights work, plastic is in pretty good shape.

I want to get it good mechanically, and ride it a bit, then I will do a frame-off restoration to it.

Advice is welcome.

Okay, Firstly i think the reason your rear reservoir is flopping about my be due to two reasons -
1/ You have lost the metal clamps which hold it onto a "specific" bracket which is welded to the 85 frame.
2/ The metal tabs ON this "specific" bracket have broken off, and there is know no proper way to mount your ressie unless you tie wrap it on.

I have attached some pics showing where the proper placement of the rear reservoir should be, unfortunately you cannot see the specific mounting bracket in the pictures,as the tabs on mine were broken so i replaced it with an 86 removable bracket, look around the area where your reservoir should be you will see there is a mounting bracket possibly the tabs have broken off but it should be there as it is welded onto the frame, there will also be a chain slider mounted underneath it which is fastened on with a 12mm bolt" i think",
*the bolt goes through the frame and through the reservoir mounting bracket*

I will try agnd get better pictures to show you, hope this helps for the moment.

[brrcuda]

I saw that bike and almost hit the BIN on it just cause it was a sweet deal. Nice score. Its funny how things don't get mentioned in the description huh. I didn't need the bike so im glad it went to another member here.

[rally4x4racer]

yea - I saw it too

I'm in the poorhouse - so I just left it

[riverrat]

Not a bad deal. I know where I can pick up a running '85 right now for $800. I offered him $600 in an e-mail but haven't heard back yet. I'd pay the $800 if it was an '86.

What is the big difference, or differences, between 85 and 86?

[riverrat]

Okay, Firstly i think the reason your rear reservoir is flopping about my be due to two reasons -
1/ You have lost the metal clamps which hold it onto a "specific" bracket which is welded to the 85 frame.
2/ The metal tabs ON this "specific" bracket have broken off, and there is know no proper way to mount your ressie unless you tie wrap it on.

I have attached some pics showing where the proper placement of the rear reservoir should be, unfortunately you cannot see the specific mounting bracket in the pictures,as the tabs on mine were broken so i replaced it with an 86 removable bracket, look around the area where your reservoir should be you will see there is a mounting bracket possibly the tabs have broken off but it should be there as it is welded onto the frame, there will also be a chain slider mounted underneath it which is fastened on with a 12mm bolt" i think",
*the bolt goes through the frame and through the reservoir mounting bracket*

I will try agnd get better pictures to show you, hope this helps for the moment.


Hey man thanks a lot for those pictures. I haven't gone outside yet, but I think the mounting tabs are still there. I do not know what the bracket looks like. I am sure I can fabricate something, as I am a sheet metal worker.

I also notice that on top of the reseviour, there is what looks like a piston, and there three small holes. A spring fell out of one of the holes, so it is possible that the resiviour is missing something, or screwd up altogether.

I will post some pics later. I could use a blow up of the reseviour to see how it works, and how it goes together.

I guess I should probably learn how to spell resevior first :cool:

I will post some pictures later, gtg make a buck....

[250rfan]

Okay,
looks like your missing the Anodised black compression adjuster cover, this is a cover which is bolted onto the top outer edge of the reservoir, when you turn it it makes a clicking noise to indicate its hardening or softening your rear suspension,

when you take the cover off you will see a little spring, and on the end of the spring a small ball bearing, if you look closely at the pictures i sent ,you should be able make out the black cover with the silver philips headed screw in the middle, which holds it onto the rear shock reservoir.

[1upfront]

The problem your having with your oil I believe that would be your water pump seal, I had the same issue with my 97 kx100, I drained the oil and coolant and replaced the seal then replaced the fluids and waalaa problem fixed, only thing is before installing a new water pump seal you always want to make sure the pump bearing turns smoothly because once you get the seal in on most bikes you cant get it back out without damaging it and I don't think you want to have to go back and remove the brand new seal to replace a bad bearing and end up buying a new seal again.:(
Just a little advice from my experience:)

[honda250sx]

Was this in NY man? Looks like a great candidate for restoration! Keep us posted!

[Dammit!]

What is the big difference, or differences, between 85 and 86?

Just a lot of small stuff. Nothing major. I just want my next 250R to be 100% compatible with my current 86 in case I ever need to swap parts.

[riverrat]

Okay,
looks like your missing the Anodised black compression adjuster cover, this is a cover which is bolted onto the top outer edge of the reservoir, when you turn it it makes a clicking noise to indicate its hardening or softening your rear suspension,

when you take the cover off you will see a little spring, and on the end of the spring a small ball bearing, if you look closely at the pictures i sent ,you should be able make out the black cover with the silver philips headed screw in the middle, which holds it onto the rear shock reservoir.

AHHHH, thanks.

Maybe that was part of the damage when the chain came off, and hit the case.
I am missing the chain guard also.

Ok, now I need one of those, and the bearings, and screw.

[riverrat]

The problem your having with your oil I believe that would be your water pump seal, I had the same issue with my 97 kx100, I drained the oil and coolant and replaced the seal then replaced the fluids and waalaa problem fixed, only thing is before installing a new water pump seal you always want to make sure the pump bearing turns smoothly because once you get the seal in on most bikes you cant get it back out without damaging it and I don't think you want to have to go back and remove the brand new seal to replace a bad bearing and end up buying a new seal again.:(
Just a little advice from my experience:)

Thanks, I will try draining out first, and see if it gets milky again.
If it does, I will replace the seal.

I plan on riding for about a year, while I do my 200X, then I will do this one.

I mostly got it for blasting across the ice, when the lake freezes.

[riverrat]

Was this in NY man? Looks like a great candidate for restoration! Keep us posted!

I drove up to Mass. to get it. 500 miles round trip. It's in NY now :)

I will be restoring it, but first I want to finish the 200X I got a few months ago.

I will be sure to do build threads on both.

I fly R/C planes and did a few build threads on those, so I am familiar with keeping everyone informed, and then we can learn from each other as we go.

I just had a thought, we should do a 3wheel lake run here when the lake freezes.
Like a winter trike fest.

Usually there is a few oval tracks carved out also, and we can mess around a bit.

[AZ250R]

Thats one tuff look'n grab bar!

You should be able to hold on the rear shock resie with a couple of hose clamps too.

[70ATC90]

I just had a thought, we should do a 3wheel lake run here when the lake freezes.
Like a winter trike fest.

Usually there is a few oval tracks carved out also, and we can mess around a bit.

I'm down:p

[riverrat]

Thats one tuff look'n grab bar!

You should be able to hold on the rear shock resie with a couple of hose clamps too.

That's a home made grab bar, with a solid steel tube for tools and stuff.
I don't think I will be keeping it, and get a PRM one.
Maybe donate that one to the 200x.

[riverrat]

Ok, here are some more pics of what is going on, and some more questions. Everyone is probably at trikefest, maybe next year we will make the journey over there.

Pic 1, is that the standard radiator protector, or is that custom?
Should I just remove it?

Pic 2, the damage from the chain, just below the clutch lever.

Pic 3+4 the missing adjustment knob, there is scrape marks, so it was the chain that removed the knob for me,

Pic 5, does the position of the clutch lever look normal to you?
I think I need a new clutch cable, and lever, any recommendations?

Pic 6 one tie wrap...holding said resevior...

Tomorrow, I got to put close ups of the grab bar, lol.
Maybe a video of me going down the street.

I also here some clicking coming from the engine, kind of sounds like if the kick start is not all the way up, was wondering if this was normal, I have never owned a two stroke before. Maybe I'll do a video of the noise, but I doubt it will come through good.

There is definate wrench marks on the cylinder, so I am sure this engine has been apart before.

Starts on the third kick, with no choke, and idles great, has what I feel to be plenty of power. Lifts the front up, through the first three gears (thats all I got up too so far.)

I don't really have trails around here, until the winter comes. I have to pack up and go some where, and I want to fix all these obvious things first., and ease into it.

[BigGreenMachine]

Motion Pro for the cable and MSR Pro Raptor clutch perch and lever assembly. Has an easy pull system built into it.

Looks alright. The problems listed aren't major but can be a pain. Yours would make a nice rider.

[HondaHarry]

Dont worry about the rattle/clicking the motor makes, thats usually the Counterbalancer, all 250Rs do it to some extent.

And toss that radiator cover, looks like its attached over the top of the original one, IMO that thing will not flow enough air to keep the motor cool, and even worse if they are on both radiators. Nice bike for the price though, should be a keeper. HH

[riverrat]

Dont worry about the rattle/clicking the motor makes, thats usually the Counterbalancer, all 250Rs do it to some extent.

And toss that radiator cover, looks like its attached over the top of the original one, IMO that thing will not flow enough air to keep the motor cool, and even worse if they are on both radiators. Nice bike for the price though, should be a keeper. HH

That's what I figured, I will be removing them, and I noticed looking from the other side, that the radiator is clogged in spots. I will be flushing it out with a mild pressure washer, and some chemicals. I own an HVAC business, and clean condensors all the time.
Thanks!

[riverrat]

Motion Pro for the cable and MSR Pro Raptor clutch perch and lever assembly. Has an easy pull system built into it.

Looks alright. The problems listed aren't major but can be a pain. Yours would make a nice rider.

Where would you suggest is the best place to buy them?
Thanks!

added by edit*
Ok, motion pro for the cable, ordered it.

[Erics350x]

Ebay or denniskirk.com

[Dirtcrasher]

I'd worry ALOT about the motor noise. Sounds like the seller didn't disclose alot of problems. That noise could be normal or a warning of near self destruction. Of the few 250R motors I've torn into the counterbalancer bearings were always loose and the housings that hold it were cracked or worn out. The bolts themselves are another weak link in that counterbalancer. That milky fluid probably means a waterpump rebuild should happen. The clutch problem is most likely a worn out 85 style pivot and pushrod. The 89 250R clutch update kit will fix that up for about 100$, I hope the plates aren't smoked. Or it is possible that under that Epoxy the pivot lower surface is worn out from a chain ruining that engine case. Those radiator protectors are restricting way too much air, get rid of them and get some stockers. As far as it screaming, thats never a good indicator to go by with a 2 stroke. 2 strokes run there absolute best when there ready to blow up, especially when the crank bearings are gone. You could easlily dump over 1000$ into this R. Just trying to be honest with you as sometimes were all sorry we got too deep into something we shouldn't have started.

Glad to see another HVAC guy here, been hangin commercial duct for quite a few years now....:beer

[RedRider_AK]

2 strokes run there absolute best when there ready to blow up, especially when the crank bearings are gone. r

My friend's YZ85 has a blown crank seal, and it doesn't work for crap. What gives? It should be a screamer, right?! :wondering

[Dirtcrasher]

My friend's YZ85 has a blown crank seal, and it doesn't work for crap. What gives? It should be a screamer, right?! :wondering


No, a blown seal upsets the air/fuel mixture. A loose sloppy main bearing revs to the moon very easily because it is so loose.

[RedRider_AK]

Ohh, I see what you're saying now. I suppose the "blown" bearing works well until the balls begin turning into ovals...

[riverrat]

I'd worry ALOT about the motor noise. Sounds like the seller didn't disclose alot of problems. That noise could be normal or a warning of near self destruction. Of the few 250R motors I've torn into the counterbalancer bearings were always loose and the housings that hold it were cracked or worn out. The bolts themselves are another weak link in that counterbalancer. That milky fluid probably means a waterpump rebuild should happen. The clutch problem is most likely a worn out 85 style pivot and pushrod. The 89 250R clutch update kit will fix that up for about 100$, I hope the plates aren't smoked. Or it is possible that under that Epoxy the pivot lower surface is worn out from a chain ruining that engine case. Those radiator protectors are restricting way too much air, get rid of them and get some stockers. As far as it screaming, thats never a good indicator to go by with a 2 stroke. 2 strokes run there absolute best when there ready to blow up, especially when the crank bearings are gone. You could easlily dump over 1000$ into this R. Just trying to be honest with you as sometimes were all sorry we got too deep into something we shouldn't have started.

Glad to see another HVAC guy here, been hangin commercial duct for quite a few years now....:beer

Sounds like you know whats going on.
I really wouldn't care if I dumped $1000 into it, at least I know what I got in the end.
I guess I should pull the motor before winter, and just tear it down.
Honda manual recommend you replace the piston every 30 hours, thats nothing, and I might as well start with a new piston, and replace anything else that looks questionable.
Then I could weld up the case around the clutch thingy (technical term).

The clutch not pulling in problem, I think will be fixed once the new handle and cable arrive. The cable is only moving about 1/2" down at the engine, and I have to pull it half way in until all the slack in the handle and cable are taken up.

I was just working on it tonight. I had gotten another surprise after it rained, and all the sanding the guy did showed up. LOL the armor all washed away.

I don't really care, as I was planning on all new plastic anyway. So I removed all the plastic, 400 sanded it, and sprayed a coat of clear on it. Looks freakin awesome (for what it is).

Second surprise I got was a s#%t load of grease around the front caliper, and the disk was completely covered in grease. OMG.
No wonder the front brakes felt mushy. I disassembled that, and cleaned it up, and now the brake works good.
I will be ordering another brake hose, and pads, again, just to start fresh.

All these things, are small, and I get them doen amazingly fast, as these trikes are so easy to work on.

Me and my 10 year old removed all the plastic, sanded it, and painted it in 2 hours, assembled back on the trike. Including taking apart the brakes.

Oh, and yea, the grills are removed already, and the originals were behind it. I flushed out the radiator.

I am not disappointed, it was sold as a rebuildable trike, and thats what I got.
It's a great starting point.

It was almost 100% functional, and thats a great place to start.