Powroll 350x 430 - Complete! - Great Info Too

[jaykup]

For a long time I've been riding Honda 185's 110's 200's etc etc. They were fun, but on the trails (where I do most of my riding) I really wanted something more. Debating between a 250r and a 350x, I made my choice. The 250r was an amazing machine, with a ton of room for expansion, but not as well suited to the trails as the ground-pounding 350x. I decided to go with the 350x, and I even found one locally (http://www.3wheelerworldforums.com/showthread.php?t=58097) (10 minutes away). It had some light mods, but was in pretty rough condition. After a few trips to the trails, I loved the power, but I needed more! I decided on the 430 Kit from Powroll.

After it was all setup, all the mods done to it at once, I can honestly say, I LOVE it. I took it 6 hours up north to Sawyer County, WI and rode it countless hours! Through the trails it feels like a tractor up the hills, never slowing down a bit. 6th gear pulls like there is no tomorrow, and I often find myself reaching for 7th or 8th. Going at a "slow, break-in" pace, I was miles ahead of the 185s behind me, with a decent rider, and had no problem catching up to the Tri-Z in front of me when I gave it some healthy throttle. It grunts, snarls, and rips through any terrain you give it, and cruises nicely at 55mph on long straight trails (didn't want to tax the new engine too much!) The new works suspension is wonderfully solid too.

I find myself short-shifting and only going 1/2 to 3/4 throttle most of the time. It really has power at any RPM or gear. If you are not careful, full throttle will rip that front end up faster than you can believe, even if you are trying to lean forward! The accelerator pump built into the 400ex carb makes for instant throttle response and that added boost if you really slam on it!

The DG Exhaust makes it sound very mean, but not obnoxiously loud. I'm sure the sound also has to do with all that extra displacement!

I didn't have a de-compression cable so it took me a while to get it started at first. If you kick it wrong, it stops dead on the compression stroke, and will bruise your foot quickly, even with work boots on. After standing on the kick-starter half-way through the compression stroke, you can give it a full body kick, and it will finally start. If you do it right the first time, it starts on the first kick!

Overall I am VERY happy with the power delivery!

I have a list of my mods, suppliers, and prices in an spreadsheet / HTML format.

Mod List (http://digitallywarped.org/350x_mod_list.html) :w00t:

EDIT: Link is back up.

The list is very complete, and I hope it helps others wanting to do this kit. Too many times I have seen, asked, or been asked, "Where did you get it? How much was it?"

Pictures! :pics:

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/6708/new_dscf3052.th.jpg (http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=new_dscf3052.jpg)http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/8391/new_dscf3047.th.jpg (http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=new_dscf3047.jpg)http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/3936/new_dscf3070.th.jpg (http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=new_dscf3070.jpg)http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/4958/new_dscf3096.th.jpg (http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=new_dscf3096.jpg)http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/3770/new_dscf3109.th.jpg (http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=new_dscf3109.jpg)http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/2121/new_dscf3089.th.jpg (http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=new_dscf3089.jpg)http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/2972/new_dscf3121.th.jpg (http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=new_dscf3121.jpg)


More pics to follow ~~~

[jaykup]

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/7343/new_dscf3117.th.jpg (http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=new_dscf3117.jpg)http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9242/new_dscf3129.th.jpg (http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=new_dscf3129.jpg)http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/4356/new_dscf3139.th.jpg (http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=new_dscf3139.jpg)http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/3639/new_dscf3074.th.jpg (http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=new_dscf3074.jpg)http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/6013/new_dscf3043.th.jpg (http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=new_dscf3043.jpg)http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/3703/new_dscf3044.th.jpg (http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=new_dscf3044.jpg)http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/245/new_dscf3322.th.jpg (http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=new_dscf3322.jpg)

[jaykup]

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/1943/newdscf3053fu3.th.jpg (http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newdscf3053fu3.jpg)http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/8407/newdscf3052xy3.th.jpg (http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newdscf3052xy3.jpg)http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/4935/newdscf3047os5.th.jpg (http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newdscf3047os5.jpg)http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/3815/newdscf3115yv7.th.jpg (http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newdscf3115yv7.jpg)http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/4949/newdscf3123qm0.th.jpg (http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newdscf3123qm0.jpg)http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/295/newdscf3132ej6.th.jpg (http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newdscf3132ej6.jpg)

[super90]

Looks great! So how is the top end now? Or is it more of a mid/low machine?

[jaykup]

The cam is designed to give a strong mid and powerful UPPER RPM's. It seems to have power all the time, no distinct power band, and with out a tach it is hard to say when the power signs off. The gears also feel very short, after all it is pretty much stock gearing. When you are in 5th or 6th though you can really feel it pulling hard in the midrange and doesn't lose any power until the very end, where it almost abruptly signs off. I assume this is its 8,000 RPM redline or so.

I think with better gearing / tires it would REALLY come to life, not to say that it isn't a huge improvement from the old 350cc engine.

[jaykup]

More Pictures! These are of the motor complete, and more of the 350x being complete!

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/6951/smdscf3150uh6.th.jpg (http://img124.imageshack.us/my.php?image=smdscf3150uh6.jpg)http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4269/smdscf3153xt8.th.jpg (http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=smdscf3153xt8.jpg)http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/2357/smdscf3152hi2.th.jpg (http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=smdscf3152hi2.jpg)http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/1913/smdscf3149np3.th.jpg (http://img124.imageshack.us/my.php?image=smdscf3149np3.jpg)http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/7002/smdscf3146xk6.th.jpg (http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=smdscf3146xk6.jpg)http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/652/smdscf3145nh9.th.jpg (http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=smdscf3145nh9.jpg)http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/1144/smdscf3144gx4.th.jpg (http://img124.imageshack.us/my.php?image=smdscf3144gx4.jpg)http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/4312/smdscf3157kz3.th.jpg (http://img172.imageshack.us/my.php?image=smdscf3157kz3.jpg)http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/2294/smdscf3154kp6.th.jpg (http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?image=smdscf3154kp6.jpg)

[jaykup]

and the last of them

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/1427/smdscf3161yy0.th.jpg (http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=smdscf3161yy0.jpg)http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/2777/smdscf3177ru8.th.jpg (http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=smdscf3177ru8.jpg)http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/5184/smdscf3169ql4.th.jpg (http://img172.imageshack.us/my.php?image=smdscf3169ql4.jpg)http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/1614/smdscf3165ee5.th.jpg (http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?image=smdscf3165ee5.jpg)http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/9933/smdscf3176tg6.th.jpg (http://img172.imageshack.us/my.php?image=smdscf3176tg6.jpg)http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/7167/smdscf3174of9.th.jpg (http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?image=smdscf3174of9.jpg)http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/1581/smdscf3170id4.th.jpg (http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=smdscf3170id4.jpg)http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/1368/smdscf3171rg1.th.jpg (http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?image=smdscf3171rg1.jpg)http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/7779/smdscf3173nd1.th.jpg (http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=smdscf3173nd1.jpg)http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/4217/smdscf3172fc3.th.jpg (http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?image=smdscf3172fc3.jpg)

[Dirtcrasher]

Hey bud, this is a real nice informative build up you have here.

People don't realize how easy it is to dump 3G's into a machine JUST for mechanical stuff. And another 2G's for cosmetics.......

Liquid had some trouble with his 430 kit, not sure what it was but I'm glad to hear that yours worked so well. I have a crate motor I'd like to throw that kit into, it should rip it up nicely!!

[ATC-Eric]

Thanks man, that was a great read! :beer

Iam interested in that kit for my X down the road. This was very informative.


Eric

[rally4x4racer]

hey, jay - can you tell me how you made the 400ex carb fit? will it it into the headboot? I am fairly certain the stock 350x tube to the airbox will not slip over the carb. I have a 400ex carb that I am installing soon - hoping you found the easiest / best way already.

thanks

[Dirtcrasher]

YES, I'm glad this topic got brought back up again..... Hope we get some more input.....

Some posts about any 350X built motors would be great!!

350X big bores or cam changes or HC pistons??

Maybe it"s because the 350X rips it up even stock....:naughty: or has even more RIP IY UP!! with just an exhaust and jetting change?? :wondering

Who has a built 350X powerplant and what did you do to it?? How does it rip? Reliable?

[rally4x4racer]

NM - mine fits with stock head boot and air box - thanks anyway

[jaykup]

Glad to see this post getting a few more hits. Figured I'd give an update ~3 months later. It is still running strong, and out on the trails it is amazing. The amount of low end thumping torque really lets you fly up and down hills like they aren't even there. No need to downshift much either. The 400ex carb is much more responsive than the old 350x carb as well. It doesn't have that second stage that the 350x carb did, which allows you to stay just barely on the throttle, and still get a ton of power. Once I hit the open trails though, it wanted to cruse at about 55-60mph. I didn't want to stress the engine that much by running top speed for 10 to 20 minutes. With my current setup (14/36 and 20" tires) its not much better than stock, and I think a simple gear change would help tremendously, and still let me have plenty of low end grunt for those tight hilly trails. The thrill of being able to go through tight windy trails and only giving it 1/4 to 1/2 throttle is indescribable. It really gets the adrenalin flowing getting up to speed so fast, and knowing how much power you still have left on tap.

Overall, it still needs quite a bit of fine tuning, but engine wise, it starts in 1-3 kicks warm or cold (if you do it right, and with out choke) and runs sooo smoothly. The decompression cable is not installed, which makes it tricky to kick it (but riding a modified yz-490 helps), and the gearing needs to be changed (maybe 14/34 on 22").

Now we see how long the engine will hold up!

Also:

To anyone trying to fit a 400ex carb onto a 350x, everything stock was used to connect the 400ex carb to the 350x. Use a *little* bit of oil on the intake tube and it should slide right on. I have a plastic gas tank, and it fit fine, but I don't know about metal ones, and have heard they are a bit too large (but don't know if this is true).

[oldsking86]

Does the 400ex carb make a big difference at all? Kinda sparked my attention for our 350x that's in need of a rebuild soon

[rally4x4racer]

mine works fine with a metal tank - thanks for the update. your right, that carb is awesome. It does, oldschool.

"It doesn't have that second stage that the 350x carb did.............."
I did not get that.

[oldsking86]

So we're talking a crisper and more powerful feel with this carb? linkage and all it just bolts up?!

[rally4x4racer]

yep - it's a must have

[Dirtcrasher]

Glad to see this post getting a few more hits. Figured I'd give an update ~3 months later. It is still running strong, and out on the trails it is amazing. The amount of low end thumping torque really lets you fly up and down hills like they aren't even there. No need to downshift much either. The 400ex carb is much more responsive than the old 350x carb as well. It doesn't have that second stage that the 350x carb did, which allows you to stay just barely on the throttle, and still get a ton of power. Once I hit the open trails though, it wanted to cruse at about 55-60mph. I didn't want to stress the engine that much by running top speed for 10 to 20 minutes. With my current setup (14/36 and 20" tires) its not much better than stock, and I think a simple gear change would help tremendously, and still let me have plenty of low end grunt for those tight hilly trails. The thrill of being able to go through tight windy trails and only giving it 1/4 to 1/2 throttle is indescribable. It really gets the adrenalin flowing getting up to speed so fast, and knowing how much power you still have left on tap.

Overall, it still needs quite a bit of fine tuning, but engine wise, it starts in 1-3 kicks warm or cold (if you do it right, and with out choke) and runs sooo smoothly. The decompression cable is not installed, which makes it tricky to kick it (but riding a modified yz-490 helps), and the gearing needs to be changed (maybe 14/34 on 22").

Now we see how long the engine will hold up!

Also:

To anyone trying to fit a 400ex carb onto a 350x, everything stock was used to connect the 400ex carb to the 350x. Use a *little* bit of oil on the intake tube and it should slide right on. I have a plastic gas tank, and it fit fine, but I don't know about metal ones, and have heard they are a bit too large (but don't know if this is true).



OK, so that 430 kit, How much does it run?.... Obviously it has a longer stroke so I guess you send them your crank and the bore must change too? How many millimeters larger is the piston, and I hope ya can run a 10.5:1 and run pump fuel? Then you need the mid to top range Webcam and the spring kit and a 400EX carb. Sound about right??

So for everything, were talking in the range of 1000$ I'll guess??

Glad to hear it's running well, I certainly want to build this....

EDIT, looks like the kit alone is 1500$ and with everything else I'm gonna put this more towards the 2000$ mark.... Thats allot of cash!! But...... If were gonna keep these things and don't care for golf carts (like me) than I guess it's worth it......

[jaykup]

"It doesn't have that second stage that the 350x carb did.............."
I did not get that.

I'll have to explain this one later when I get home and can look at the carb better.



So we're talking a crisper and more powerful feel with this carb? linkage and all it just bolts up?!

This is 100% "bolt" on and go, although you are only loosening the clamps, sliding the old carb out, and sliding the new carb in.


OK, so that 430 kit, How much does it run?....

You can check out my mod page (http://digitallywarped.mine.nu/350x_mod_list.html) for what I paid, and what components I got for it, along with manufacturers websites and comments about each one. Keep in mind the "430 Kit" really only includes a larger cylinder/piston assembly, and work done on your crank to stroke it. ~$625 for both. That gets you the 430cc's. Its all the other performance modifications that will compliment the larger displacement, and also nickel & dime you to death.



Obviously it has a longer stroke so I guess you send them your crank and the bore must change too?

You need to send in your crank to get modified (which is the $290 dollars), and they send you a sleeve and larger piston kit. You need to then take it to a local shop to have it re-sleeved. ~($100-$150).


How many millimeters larger is the piston, and I hope ya can run a 10.5:1 and run pump fuel?

The piston is an 86mm vs the stock 81mm. You can run 92/93 octane on 10.5:1 and I wouldn't go any lower. Higher compression (11:1 +) will need higher octane than you can usually get at the pumps.


Then you need the mid to top range Webcam and the spring kit and a 400EX carb. Sound about right??

You don't NEED these, but it will make it run better. I would go with Webcam since it is considerably cheaper, but great quality. The spring kit is not required on all grinds, but recommended on most. The carb is around $100 on eBay.


So for everything, were talking in the range of 1000$ I'll guess??

Glad to hear it's running well, I certainly want to build this....

EDIT, looks like the kit alone is 1500$ and with everything else I'm gonna put this more towards the 2000$ mark.... Thats allot of cash!! But...... If were gonna keep these things and don't care for golf carts (like me) than I guess it's worth it......

I ended up spending ~$2,500 dollars total on all the mods I did, but that included other things you may want to look at when doing this mod, such as different tires, gearing ratios, hardened sprockets, head porting, exhaust, etc etc etc.

It's worth it, to be able to keep up with the 2-strokes and just dominate on the trails. Not to mention your 3 wheeler is 20+ years old, it needs some performance mods to compete with newer 4 wheelers on the trails or where ever you ride. Show them 3 wheelers aren't useless by flying past them :D