185s new timing chain, now doesn't start!

[atc fan]

Hey guys, first time poster here. I have looked all over the site for some clues on this but not sure what to do next. Timing chain on my 185s slipped off the lower gear. Put a new timing chain on, set the motor to top dead center (compression stroke after intake valve closes, correct?) "t" on flywheel is lined up, "o" on top gear is lined up with v notch in valve cover, pulser is a little past line on black plastic box (under cdi cover). She will not even fire! Could I have damaged a valve when the chain fell off? Wouldn't it still at least fire?

[oscarmayer]

there's a strong chance that piston to valve had contact and you have some internal damage. pull the head and have a look at the vlaves and piston top , if the piston has parts on it, then there's the answer.

[atc fan]

I would think it would at least fire or pop though. The plugs come out soaked.

[Nick_R_23]

Make sure your spark advancer isnt 180 degrees off. If thats not it, then try rotating the cam sprocket on the cam (keep the chain on the sprocket), it might be a cycle off.

-Nick :TrikesOwn

[84honda200s]

undo the screw on the housing near the recoil then turn the flywheel until the piston is tdc (top dead center). after you have done that make sure the cam lobes are down. if they arnt down its 180 out as said before.

[Nick_R_23]

Also make sure that both the flywheel and the spark advancer are 'facing up' at the same time when the motor is supposed to fire, if not then it wont spark at the right time.

-Nick :TrikesOwn

[atc fan]

Thanks for all the responses. It's nice to know the 3 wheeler fans are still out there. Anyway, I made sure the piston was on the compression stroke by looking through the spark plug hole and watching the valves open and close. The flywheet "t" was lined up with the hole in the case. I then put on the new chain and lined up the "o" on the top sprocket with the "V" notch on the valve cover (is this correct?). I double checked that the flywheel did not move. Then I put the pulser on and you can't mess that up because it will only go on one way. The line on that was just past the line on the little black box. If you turn the flywheel back so the "f" is showing, the line on the pulser matches exactly with the line on the black box. This should be correct. I'm thinking one of 3 causes. 1. One of the valves is damaged and not sealing. 2. The pulser is somehow damage (comments?). 3. Even though I have spark, it's not getting it done, try a new spark plug.

[84honda200s]

i would get a brand new plug. you did it exactly how you should have. what color is the spark ? it should be sharp and blue. did u set the gap under the pulser cover ?
but you may be rite on the valves.


i would check the cap on the pulser and buy a new plug. then worry about the valves.

[atc fan]

The gap in the pulser? This may be the part I am missing. What is the gap and how do you set it?

[84honda200s]

hmmmm i will see if my scanner will scan the page from the manual.

[Nick_R_23]

Actually that advancer assy. can come apart, and the little piece with the magnet can be flipped around 180 degrees. If you take the spring loaded assy. and hold it open, then the magnet piece will slide out and you can flip it over.

Also, did you try to push start it? I have had so many machines when you rebuild the motor, you can crank, kick, pull, whatever and it just wont start. Then Ill go push start it and it would fire right up. I dont know why, it just works sometimes.

-Nick :TrikesOwn

[trikes4life]

Make sure your spark advancer isnt 180 degrees off. If thats not it, then try rotating the cam sprocket on the cam (keep the chain on the sprocket), it might be a cycle off.

-Nick :TrikesOwn

i have done that before.....

[insaneclowns]

it may be your flywheel key is shred or twisted. i had something like that happen to me i was ride and stop and parked a hour or 2 and came back out side and tried to start and nuttin happen i checked and did find anything wrong so i look in the manuel an it sad something about the key and that what was wrong with it.

Eric

[oscarmayer]

bump for updates?

[atc fan]

I am going to redo everything today just to be sure. Then i'm going to look the pulser over carefully but I still don't know what the gap mentioned above is or how to change it. Lastly I am going to try a new plug. If it still won't start I'm going to order a manual and dig into the valves.

[atc fan]

I redid everything. Still no go. It almost sounds like it is pushing air out the carb. I'm pretty sure the intake valve is not sealing. Still I would think it would fire though. Well it looks like I should probably rebuild the top end. Where is the best place to get a shop manual? Any re-building tips from anyone?

[bigreddaddy]

Have you checked compression? Try taking the air box out and cover the air side of the carb with your hand while starting it to see if its sucking air.

[atc fan]

I don't have a compression guage with those threads yet. I put my hand over the airbox and it feels like air coming out. I have a nice blue sharp spark so I didn't buy a new plug. I ordered a manual today off ebay.

[bigreddaddy]

When you put your hand over the air side you should feel it sucking air into the carb while cranking it, not blowing air out.

[atc fan]

Yeah I know. I'm pretty sure the valve is not sealing. Compression doesn't feel right either. Either that or i've missed something while setting the timing. The manual should be here in a few days.

[atc fan]

Well I have my manual and checked my timing work. Everything looks good. So I pulled the caps to get a look at the valve clearance. The exhaust side is good. The intake valve has over .125 of play. I am guessing this is because the valve is not fully closing. I am trying to get the valve cover off (any tips for getting a stuck valve cover off?). Then I want to pull the head. The manual says to remove the engine. Does anyone know if that is necessary in order to get the head off?

[Nick_R_23]

You will have to take the motor out to remove the head. You will have to take off the valve cover, cam, and try not to let the chain drop. There are several bolts holding things down, they are pretty easy to tell what ones you need to remove. Just remember there is one on the side just outside the sparkplug hole.

-Nick :TrikesOwn

[oscarmayer]

have you checked valve lash? of the valves are not adjsuted properly and are too tinhgt that woudl keep them open, also you could be 180 out of mechanical timing. seen it happend before.