Bizaar sleeve dilema

[TimSr]

I got a stock bore cylinder on ebay a while back for my TriZ. I had it bored .25mm over to clean it up, and also had some porting done on it. Im doing a total bike rebuild. I got it installed on Monday, and it fired up after a few kicks, warmed up, and ran great. I had it running maybe 5 minutes and shut it down. Last night I resumed working on it, and rechecked head torque, and fired it up so I could check for any obvious tranny problems. After running a few minutes, it suddenly started blowing coolant out the overflow like a faucet at high pressure. I shut it down immediately, and began checking it out. Kicking it over slowly with my hand with a noticeable loss of pressure I could hear my cylinder pressure gurgling through the raditor. I assumed the head had cracked since Ive never had any gasket fail so drastically, and never had a Cometic gasket fail at all. I pulled the head and it was obvious where the pressure had been blowing past the gasket in several spots. I pulled the gasket off and noticed that the sleeve in my cylinder has dropped maybe .25mm causing my failure. I have never seen anything like this before. What could cuase this? Anybody familiar with the actual process of resleeving? Are they just pressed in? Can this be fixed without scrapping my sleeve and what could be done to keep it from moving again?

My cylinder is not damaged and I have a new piston and Ive obviously just sunk a lot of money into it, so Id like to salvage it if possible.

http://home.neo.rr.com/timtim/sleevedrop.jpg

[Billy Golightly]

Ugh another resleeve gone bad. I have a thread in the mad scientists forum about my fiasco. The issue your having is fairly common. Corey Sprock told me you can heat up the cylinders and remove the sleeve without much issue. I'm not sure about re-using that though. Tim what you need to do is have some re-surface the top of the cylinder to make up that different, and the have the head re-domed deeper however much is taken off the top. Thats something Ronnie or anyone capable of re-doming a head and surfacing a cylinder then do.

[BigGreenMachine]

That is messed up. Now that ruins your port work as well right? So is the port timing off as well now even after you redo the portwork?

Hope it can be salvaged, looks like a mess.

[Mosh]

Contact Corey Sprock Tim.OR give me a call tonite.I know he has dealt with this and might be able to save it for you.

[Jason Hall]

Tim, It sounds like the sleeve dropped In the cylinder. It was probly not pressed all the way down against the machined surface In the jug. That really stinks.

[Maico]

Who ever did the re-sleeve should have immediately put the cylinder in a press after dropping the sleeve in and put a light pressure on the sleeve until it completely cooled. It wasn't fully seated when you got it back.

[TtownJoeShow]

What a bummer!!!
my guess would b that, that cylander has been resleeved before, but they bored the sleeve bore out alittle too much?
if you were to get the cylander milled down to the sleeve (the problem might happen again) without redoming, you'll have alittle more compresion!! i don't know how much more tho, defineatly gotta find that one out *Edited**Edited* ya do it, if you do it!

[sblt500r]

had that problem on a 87 rm125. but the sleeve would move up. i must have blew about 4 head gaskets. till i figured out what it was. i hated that bike!!

[TimSr]

Funny thing is I firmly believe this was an original cylinder and had never been resleeved. The fact that it was original bore makes me believe it was never taken off the original machine, and my guess is that the way the OEM head gasket seats kept it from pushing it down.

Its such a small amount I believe it could be milled down probably without having to modifiy the head, but my concern is what will keep it from just moving down farther once that is done? Other than being pressed in, is there anything that holds it inplace? The ports are a little off now too, but nothing drastic that couldnt be fixed I dont think.

[tecat-z]

Cylinder sleeves have a outer lip on the top side and the cylinder has a recession on the top so that when sleeve is pushed in it only goes in so far. It can't travel up since the head, gasket and top of cylinder is all tight against each other. The machinest has to have the recession in cylinder and the outer lip on sleeve all figured properly to establish exact depth. Oem iron liners are manufactured with the aluminum cast around the liner and i've never heard of these budging. If you look at the underside you can always tell if a sleeve has been installed if you know what to look for. For an idea of what a sleeve looks like just look at an upclose of a big dieselsleeve. The lip will be very obvious, and how it locks in. Our small engine sleeves are sometimes hard to see in pictures. Search under google and you will find pics. And yes this will alter port timing a bit. Enough to notice???

[sblt500r]

when a sleeve is installed, the old one is bored out just smaller then the new sleeve. then the cylinder is heated. then after the cylinder is hot, the new sleeve is dropped in, or pressed in. so when it cools the cylinder tightens around the sleeve. then the sleeve is bored to fit a new piston.

my rm sleeve looked stock. and it moved up because the skirts of the sleeve were hitting the cases. the sleeve was installed to far in. so when i installed the cylinder the sleeve moved up a bit. i didn't notice it. i think while it was running it made it worse, forcing it up higer. the sleeve was installed wrong! lol

[TimSr]

On the Z it is impossible to move up because the head seats on the sleeve.


Jason is going see what he can do with it, but I really appreciate all the offers for help. Thanks everyone.

[max]

Same thing just happened when I did my 295 kit before smith rd last year. Had it bored. Installed everything. And boom, antifreeze squirtin everywhere. Pulled it apart and it looked exactly the same. Mabey about 10 to 20 thousands the sleeve sunk. Im not sure if it happened during the bore job or what.

But what I did was pulled all the studs out of the top of my cylinder and got a big ol piece of sand paper and figure eighted it until both surfaces where even. If it isnt sunk to bad you could try this Tim. Just make sure the piston doesnt hit the head after assembly. And mabey go with a thicker gasket.


Crazy though because that is exactly what happened with mine. Good luck. Mine has worked out fine!!!!

[filipinoredneck]

Same thing just happened when I did my 295 kit before smith rd last year. Had it bored. Installed everything. And boom, antifreeze squirtin everywhere. Pulled it apart and it looked exactly the same. Mabey about 10 to 20 thousands the sleeve sunk. Im not sure if it happened during the bore job or what.

But what I did was pulled all the studs out of the top of my cylinder and got a big ol piece of sand paper and figure eighted it until both surfaces where even. If it isnt sunk to bad you could try this Tim. Just make sure the piston doesnt hit the head after assembly. And mabey go with a thicker gasket.


Crazy though because that is exactly what happened with mine. Good luck. Mine has worked out fine!!!!

Is there enough of a lip that you could fabricate a shim out of shim stock material? You would have to remove the sleeve first then install the shim and repress the sleeve back. The only thing is I think you would have to re hone it slightly to make sure you don't end up with high spots somewhere in the sleeve. I've done something like this but with machinery and not with engines.