Motocross Setup Questions

[BigGreenMachine]

Guys, building a new trike soon and I want to MX it this coming summer.

Have a Douglas ten inch front wheel settled upon to get the unlimited tire choices.

Need to decide what rear wheels to use. 8 inchers or 10's?

What rear tires?Both will use 18 inch tall tires

How tall of a front tire should I use? What kind?

Swingarm length.. Whats best? Plus two inches or stock?



Heres one of the local tracks, about 4 hours away.

http://www.sled-headz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10204&start=0

[Bryan Raffa]

[QUOTE=BigGreenMachine]Guys, building a new trike soon and I want to MX it this coming summer.

Have a Douglas ten inch front wheel settled upon to get the unlimited tire choices.

Need to decide what rear wheels to use. 8 inchers or 10's?

What rear tires?Both will use 18 inch tall tires

How tall of a front tire should I use? What kind?

Swingarm length.. Whats best? Plus two inches or stock?

This is what i would use..
8" rim
front tire 22-24"
plus 2 swinger
there's alot of good rear tires out there!

[BigGreenMachine]

I want a 21 inch tire and 18's, just don't know what kind.

How about swingarm length?

What size rims? Sidewall flex desirable or is the slideability of low profile tires better?

[Fox250R]

id be a little freaked out seeing a paramedic with a tie on LOL

[TimSr]

I doubt anybody makes an 18" tire for a 10" rim. 8" rim give you more 18" tire choices than a 9" rim does. 18x9.5x8 Turf Tamer is a good track choice. You want a flat profile tire that does not give too much traction, or you wont be able to powerslide. Remember trikes get more traction than quads, and you need a less aggressive tread to get the same repsonse.

Provided this is strictly a track trike - on front the Holeshot tire 21-23", size depending on trike geometry as you didnt mention what trike.

Swingarm length, depends on what model and trike geometry. The longer the swinger, the easier to manage wheelieing, but the less agile it will corner. The TriZ has such a long geometry Id never extend one for MX, and I wouldnt mind trying a shorter one. I think Brandon added a small amount on his 250R for best results if I remember right.

As with anything, Id start racing mostly stock and wouldnt put much money into it until youve started racing, and then figure out where your weakenesses lie. Yoll also find that what may be a blessing on one track can be a curse on another.

[BigGreenMachine]

86/87 Tecate with a 500 motor.

I certainly will take your advice. I already have some progressive springs for the front forks and a shock rebuild is on the list.

Wheels I need to buy. I want the 10 inch front and I won't have any rear wheels since I'm buying the machine in parts only.

The track is really beginner friendly where all the obstacles can be rolled over or jumped.

[TimSr]

That motor/bike combo will definately alter your geometry and weight distribution, so any advice would be total guesses unless someone has used that same combination. It will take some trial and error. I can say it give you a lot more tire choices you can bust loose on corners with that motor, and I withdraw my advice on the 9.5" width Turf Tamers. Id go with the 18x11-8. You might even go with one of the Holeshot/Razr style treads, but stick with a stiff sidewall, flat profile 8 or 9psi tire.

I would start out with the front tire you have now, and then decide whether you want to go taller or lower with it, after its been track tested. It will depend on your center of gravity.

Also keep in mind that changing your swingarm length changes the leverage on your rear shock, so if you have your shock setup correctly, and then change swingarm length, your shock will again need revavled and/or resprung with the length change, so its best to decide what swingarm length before having your shock built.

[Derrick Adams]

To my knowledge the only 18" tire available for a 10" rim (for the rear) is the Titan/Dico Fast Trekker. These have long been discontinued, but are still available on ebay brand new. Brandon, Jason, and myself all run these.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l34/Derrick_Adams/ztires.jpg

They make several 18" tires for 8" and a few for 9". I would try to stay away from Holeshot style tires as they get ALOT of sidebite. The Turf Tamers work real well on a trike, but like Tim said you'll need the 11" wide ones to hook up that 500.

I've been really eyeballing the stock LTR450 tires. They look like they would work fantastic on a trike!

All the rest of the questions you want answered are really relative to your specific machine and your weight, tracks your running, etc.

Good luck with the build! T-3's are awesome.:w00t:

[Bryan Raffa]

Titan 18x11x10's came out in 05 and are alv.. through parts unlimited for around $70 ea and you can also get mxr4 holeshots in 19x10x10's for $85 ea

[BigGreenMachine]

Think I'm going to go with 8 inch wheels on 300ex hubs. Those trekkers look sweet but the 10 inch rim would get pounded trail riding.

I really like the YFZ450 stock rear tires, they look like they would hook up great and slide pretty well. Though they were designed for a fourstroke...

Plus two on the swingarm, plus three max.

I'm only a small guy, I think a fresh shock on a +2 swinger would still be fine. I have a guy who can setup the shock for me locally and.... PEP has Jimmy White's Tecate suspension setups on hand for anyone that wants them. :D

This will be my daily rider with MX taking second but it'll be rode hard no matter what. We have a new backhoe for our J5 so there is the possibility of me making my own small local track for spring/summer enjoyment.

[TimSr]

If you are going to trail ride this too, the best option is two sets of tires mounted on rims. No tire does it all well, and actually what works best on the track sucks the most on trails. I run 22" All Trax on the trails, and then pop on the 18" Turf Tmaers for the track.

[Bryan Raffa]

actually I found the klaw MXR to be great for both but I should have went with the 20"

[BigGreenMachine]

I have a set of stock 85 ten inch Tecate rims with 22 inch spidertracs. I can always use a stock 86 front with a 23inch tire.

[scooterroo]

fasttrekkers are not discountinued....just bought a set brand new ...titan makes them now. 18x11x10, 45 bucks a peice.

[BigGreenMachine]

Think a Trekker would hook up with a KX500 motor?

Just found them online, dang they sure are heavy! 13 pounds a tire for the 10 inch rim.

[3Razors]

Its going to be very tough to find a mx tire that hooks up with a kx500 motor. hehe Wheelspin is just gonna be the nature of the beast with that bike.:)

[BigGreenMachine]

Agreed! Going to look around some more for an agressive pattern.

On that note if anyone has an 86/87 roller or parts lot kicking around I'd love to buy it!!

[BigGreenMachine]

http://www.kendausa.com/atv/sport.html

Looking at the MXR Klaw and ST Knarly.

[3leggeddog]

alot of the quad guys run those klaws.they say that the klaws have better side bitte then the turf tamers,thats a bad thing.i can agree that the klaws get alot of traction,i use them on my 500r.it does not like to slide sideways with the klaws,it always seems to stand up on a 1 wheel wheelie,while still sliding sideways a litle bit.but i have the 20" on 9"rims.

the fast trekkars in the 10x10 are by far the best mx tire i have found for a 3 wheeler.i still need to try out the holeshot 19x9,and 19x10.so far the trekar has been my favorite.18" tamers on 8" rim give too much side traction,and want to 2 wheel.if you jump big,get the reenforced ring rims.i have flatend 3 sets of rims now.thats the only drawback to the titans,in my opion that is.

[Bryan Raffa]

http://www.itptires.com/sportatv/holeshot_sx.html
I might go with these also.. I get a smokein deal on them..

[BigGreenMachine]

What about LTR450 rear tires?
18 inch too which is a plus.

[DixiePlowboy]

I've never liked a Holeshot style tire on a 3-wheeler. Waayyy too much sidebite for me. I do like the Turf Tamer style flattrack knobbies. Good forward traction and still very slidable.

I've ridden a KX 500 converted to a 3-wheeler, but never a Tecate with a 500 in it....which makes me wonder....are there necessary frame mods that may compromise structural integrety?

[BigGreenMachine]

To my knowledge the only 18" tire available for a 10" rim (for the rear) is the Titan/Dico Fast Trekker. These have long been discontinued, but are still available on ebay brand new. Brandon, Jason, and myself all run these.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l34/Derrick_Adams/ztires.jpg

They make several 18" tires for 8" and a few for 9". I would try to stay away from Holeshot style tires as they get ALOT of sidebite. The Turf Tamers work real well on a trike, but like Tim said you'll need the 11" wide ones to hook up that 500.

I've been really eyeballing the stock LTR450 tires. They look like they would work fantastic on a trike!

All the rest of the questions you want answered are really relative to your specific machine and your weight, tracks your running, etc.

Good luck with the build! T-3's are awesome.:w00t:


Some great advice here thus far. Really like the YFZ rear tires as well as the LTR. The YFZ's are 20's though...

[BigGreenMachine]

NOPE!! The motor drops in with the addition of new motor mounts and a notch in the tube above the sparkplug.

I'll be adding some reinforcing braces and gussets to the frame, it'll be plenty strong.

[DixiePlowboy]

Good to hear, and good luck. I've always loved big bore two-strokes.

[BigGreenMachine]

Found the tires I'll be running.

http://www.dunlopatv.com/docs/press/06_DQMAX_Sport_AD.pdf

http://www.dunlopatv.com/docs/press/06D_QUADMAX_SPORT_PK.pdf

[TimSr]

the fast trekkars in the 10x10 are by far the best mx tire i have found for a 3 wheeler. if you jump big,get the reenforced ring rims.i have flatend 3 sets of rims now.thats the only drawback to the titans,in my opion that is.

Theres a simple solution for that. Seeing the way you fly and the way you land, its a simple matter of not enough tire between the rim and the ground. Since you probably dont want to go to a 20" tire, running the same 18" tire but on an 8" rim (if they make it) would probably solve your problem, and still handle the same. If you flatten rims, its not because the rim isnt strong enough, but because your rim is hitting the ground when you land and compress the tire. Im assuming you ran max tire pressure for that tire.

[3leggeddog]

yeah i run 5 lbs i think.i can;t get over the turf tamer sidewall roll.it just doesn't work for me.i also flatened a 19"mxr4 on a 10" rim.not sure if it will cure it,but i am making some rings at work to weld in my junk rims,and then buying some new 10" reenforced rims as soon as i can.i may try a 20" tire on 10" rim though.

[BigGreenMachine]

What about conventional forks? How can I beef them up besides the Progressive fork springs?

[TimSr]

What about conventional forks? How can I beef them up besides the Progressive fork springs?

You didnt mention your physical size, but I wouldnt touch it until you've spent some time on the track with it to determine whether they need "beefed up". Unnecessary "beefing up" your suspension will greatly hinder its performance. Your suspension should be set up as light as possible without frequently bottoming out. I dropped the progressive springs in mine, and used the preload spacers supplied with the springs, and am now in the process of cutting them down. Its too stiff for my 180 lbs, even under the most rigorous riding. I just sent my rear shock out to be lightened up as well. Also, Ill suggest avoiding the commmon myth that heavier oil is better. Oil weight adjustes dampening, and for MX you want light damping for quicker rebound. I started with 20W, switched to 15W, and am now going to 10W.

[BigGreenMachine]

Tim, I'm only a small guy at 120lbs (I hear you guys snicker! :P) I already have the springs. Found them great in my 85 so I'll be using them again.

The top thing on my list are tires and getting the rear end widened with hubs and offset wheels.

[TimSr]

Tim, I'm only a small guy at 120lbs (I hear you guys snicker! :P)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Those progressive springs will be nice for you too, because they are lighter than stock, and get stiffer as they go down, so they will give you a smoother ride, but they will be more than adequate. Youll only need enough spacer to fill in the gap, so you dont have any spring compression when you put the caps on. Id run a 5W fork oil. On the rear, set the preload just high enough to take up most of the sag with no weight on the bike.

It is wise to look for tires and rims first. Any aftermarket rim, Douglas or ITP has a good offset and will give you the width you need. Extended hubs will add more, but tires and rims will get you on the track so you can practice and evaluate what else you may need.

[BigGreenMachine]

Great advice as always Tim, I'll start there!

[BigGreenMachine]

Bump for this thread.

500 powered Tecate is scapped and I'll be running the 85 250 Tecate. Using an 01 raptor shock (maybe with progressive spring) and progressive fork springs then hopefully pick up 18x10x10 fast trekkers soon.

[RedRider_AK]

Tim, I'm only a small guy at 120lbs

LOL
And I think I'm a small dude!

[BigGreenMachine]

Yeah I must have a super high metabolism cause I'm no picky eater, eat it all anytime I want and never put on weight.

[RedRider_AK]

Same here brotherman. I regularly eat a dozen donuts in an hour or two, especially when I'm riding around on bikes/ATV's in the summer time, and don't put on a pound. I'm about 130 lbs at 5'10"

[BigGreenMachine]

Its like it vapourizes when it reaches the stomach. lol

[RedRider_AK]

Its like it vapourizes when it reaches the stomach. lol

Yeah, exactly! You eat a friggin WHOLE cherry pie and then an hour later you're hungry again!

[BigGreenMachine]

fasttrekkers are not discountinued....just bought a set brand new ...titan makes them now. 18x11x10, 45 bucks a peice.

$45 a piece?? I priced them at 128 each CDN....wow! Want to pick me up a set and ship them? Squat them down and tie them together...let me know.

[BigGreenMachine]

Cut down the preload spacers in my forks Friday. The suspension cycles farther through its range and is softer through the trails and over small jumps. If it needs to be stiffer I'll make new spacers. Need to get my rear shock rebuilt.

Freshening up my motor soon as well as new tires and some other small stuff.