1970 Honda ATC90 (Update)

[re-lapse]

I'm not one to double post, but I really need some assistance here.

As you've probably read in my previous thread (1970 Honda ATC90) I only got 65PSI Compression, without the throttle out. Then, I did it with the throttle out, and it jumped to about 110PSI. So, that's quite a jump, I know. But, then I was told to put about 10cc's of Automatic Transmission fluid into the cylinder, so I did just that.

I tested the compression, and it got about 142PSI. Not bad, eh? So I popped the spark plug back in there, popped the cap on. Choked half way, turned the gas on and pulled. Nothing. Pulled. Nothing. Pulled. KABOOM. Smoke out the bottom, it blew a hole in the bottom of the exhaust. Not sure why, or how. But, it did. So, being an idiot, I continued to pull.. still didn't do any good, never started. I messed with the jetting and idle settings, still no start.

Frustrated now, I decided to pull off the spark plug and check it's point, it's perfect where it should be.

I put some gas into the cylinder, just about 4 cap fulls, hopeing to get it enough gas to turn over. Nope, nothing.

swapped spark plugs and tested the spark on both of them, both were very good, sparked almost every pull.

So now, I couldn't think of anything else but to take the carburetor off and clean it up again, so I did just that. Put it back on, nothing.

I'm confused! I'm lost! I don't know what to do to fix this, what's the problem?

The transmission fluid, DID bring the compression up to 142, so, does that give you a sign of anything?

Help please!

--Brett

Air Filter
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/2617/airfiltergp2.jpg


Carburetor on Bike
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/6880/carbonbikezi2.jpgp

Carburetor without tube.
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/4365/carbwithouttubeez6.jpg

Carburetor with tube.
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/2388/carbwithtubegm4.jpg

Throttle Cable
http://img477.imageshack.us/img477/1081/throttlecableqn1.jpg

Top of Carburetor
http://img477.imageshack.us/img477/6773/topofcarbur3.jpg

I hope these pictures help out a little bit.

Help... Please?

--Brett

Desperation :)

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...please?

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Is there _anybody_ that can tell me what I need to do, to fix this issue?

:(

.......Please? :cry:

--Brett

[200xman]

You should have multiple hot sparks with each pull. You may have to check your points/condenser.

[sandpuppi101]

Sounds too me like your timing is way off if you are getting any backfire ..Good thing is it's not a carb issue ,it does'nt sound like .. take the cover off and loosen up the 2 screws that are in there holdong the plate down.That deal pretty much set's your timing on the older point's type system .. Anyways loosen those and monkey with it and see what you get..I can help you better tommorow when I look at my '72 but going from memory That's the issue..Leave the carb alone if it backfire's!! I've been there before but I will help u tomorrow,K !!

[re-lapse]

You should have multiple hot sparks with each pull. You may have to check your points/condenser.

Hmm...The point is where it should be, I checked the manual and used a spark plug thing to measure it, works fine. Check the condensor? What's that?! (Imanewb)

--Brett

[re-lapse]

Sounds too me like your timing is way off if you are getting any backfire ..Good thing is it's not a carb issue ,it does'nt sound like .. take the cover off and loosen up the 2 screws that are in there holdong the plate down.That deal pretty much set's your timing on the older point's type system .. Anyways loosen those and monkey with it and see what you get..I can help you better tommorow when I look at my '72 but going from memory That's the issue..Leave the carb alone if it backfire's!! I've been there before but I will help u tomorrow,K !!

Hmm..Hardcore backfire, it even backfired when it did start up a while ago, but not too terrible. But this backfire blew a hole in the exhaust :P.

Take what cover off? and loosen what 2 screws?

Yea, help me out tomorrow. I'll leave the carburetor alone now.

Thanks man.

--Brett

Much appreciated.

[re-lapse]

I've been there before but I will help u tomorrow,K !!

Tomorrow as in, Today? 2/19/2007? I haven't seen you on and you haven't messaged me. :sad

Well, re-lapse@hotmail.com is my e-mail if you want to e-mail me there, or add me. Whichever works for you, but darn it I _need_ help :)

Thanks again.

--Brett

[tyman]

the CDI cover... should be on the left side... front-most part of the engine... good luck with that... find a manual.. somehow.. buy one if u don't have one.... it'll be worth every penny.....

[atctim]

Looks like a pre CDI machine. Have you cleaned your points? That works wonders on an older machine that has set for a while.

Do you know where your points are, what they do, and how to clean them?

[sandpuppi101]

OK Relapse ,I finally have something I can help ya with,I doo appologize for just getting to ya also.I did tell ya I would help ya yesterday but I was completely overwhelmed with stuff.. Anyways I took a pic of what I think the problem is,the pic kinda sux but I think you will get the idea.Marked as 1 and 2 are the screws that I was trying to explain.These are holding the backing plate other wise known as the timing advance in place.That is to retard or to advance your timing..Now you probably have the point's adjusted properly ,I would assume,But where are they opening up at,that's the question,berfore TDC after TDC ! Loosen up 1 and 2 with a phillips screwdriver,keep it firm ..don't let it just flop side to side.. You will see a mark on the advance(backing plate) ,I have labeled 3. On that mark you will see a 0 mark,that put's you in the ball park on the timing.If you look around the line with the 0 you will also find a line on the case,where the point's cover attaches too.Get that lined up,snug the plate down ,firm but not cranked down,you may have to adjust,so keep it where you can move it with slight preassure,and give it a pull.Like I said that will put you in a close enough range to where it should start.Now with these old point's systems like this I have found that 1st you get the points to open at the appropriate gap 1st.Then mess with that advance ,labeled 3. I can almost gaurentee that's it,if you have 145psi of compression I would'nt think valve's to be an issue.The backfiring is the clue to the timing.. These old horizontial motors are a bear sometimes and with the older ones I have found cam stretch to be an issue and this is probably the easiest way for a novice to get the issue corrected.The machine I have pic's of is my us 90 ,pretty much the same as yours..The CDI did'nt come out till later years.I am quite busy but call me at 810-614-1902 if you need more help..

[darrel632]

take your exaust off (preferably the muffler) if it fired in the exaust enough to blow a hole it sounds like its plugged further up the pipe ie in the muffler or at one of the bends in the pipe

[re-lapse]

Looks like a pre CDI machine. Have you cleaned your points? That works wonders on an older machine that has set for a while.

Do you know where your points are, what they do, and how to clean them?

I haven't cleaned the points, because I don't know where my points are what they do and or how to clean them. =/

--Brett

[re-lapse]

OK Relapse ,I finally have something I can help ya with,I doo appologize for just getting to ya also.I did tell ya I would help ya yesterday but I was completely overwhelmed with stuff.. Anyways I took a pic of what I think the problem is,the pic kinda sux but I think you will get the idea.Marked as 1 and 2 are the screws that I was trying to explain.These are holding the backing plate other wise known as the timing advance in place.That is to retard or to advance your timing..Now you probably have the point's adjusted properly ,I would assume,But where are they opening up at,that's the question,berfore TDC after TDC ! Loosen up 1 and 2 with a phillips screwdriver,keep it firm ..don't let it just flop side to side.. You will see a mark on the advance(backing plate) ,I have labeled 3. On that mark you will see a 0 mark,that put's you in the ball park on the timing.If you look around the line with the 0 you will also find a line on the case,where the point's cover attaches too.Get that lined up,snug the plate down ,firm but not cranked down,you may have to adjust,so keep it where you can move it with slight preassure,and give it a pull.Like I said that will put you in a close enough range to where it should start.Now with these old point's systems like this I have found that 1st you get the points to open at the appropriate gap 1st.Then mess with that advance ,labeled 3. I can almost gaurentee that's it,if you have 145psi of compression I would'nt think valve's to be an issue.The backfiring is the clue to the timing.. These old horizontial motors are a bear sometimes and with the older ones I have found cam stretch to be an issue and this is probably the easiest way for a novice to get the issue corrected.The machine I have pic's of is my us 90 ,pretty much the same as yours..The CDI did'nt come out till later years.I am quite busy but call me at 810-614-1902 if you need more help..

Wow. . . . I don't know what to say, other than Thank you. That's a lot of information. Ok. Well.

The picture is fairly hard to see with the flash, and all. But, as I understand that picture is taken _under_ the cylinder? like, I have to take the motor apart, right?

Well, if I have to do that, I'll do that, but I want to make sure that's what I need to do, to get to that section, to try those things, to fix it. Thanks so much, also, I need your name, so if I call you, I won't feel like an idiot :)

--Brett

[re-lapse]

take your exaust off (preferably the muffler) if it fired in the exaust enough to blow a hole it sounds like its plugged further up the pipe ie in the muffler or at one of the bends in the pipe

I don't think so, but I'll definitely take a look at it for sure. Thanks Darrel. :)

--Brett

[re-lapse]

the CDI cover... should be on the left side... front-most part of the engine... good luck with that... find a manual.. somehow.. buy one if u don't have one.... it'll be worth every penny.....

I'll check that as well. Got a PDF manual. and No cash to buy one. hah, but thanks for the comment, MUCH appreciated. all this help is going to get me _somewhere_ at least :)

--Brett

[sandpuppi101]

Just call me my name is Roger 810-614-1902 !!!

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Just call me my name is Roger 810-614-1902 !!!

What is the best time that I can call you, because that way I can call you on Thursday when my brother is over here and he can help me out with this while you inform us what to do.

Thanks Roger :)

--Brett

P.S. I probably won't call you til Thursday, when we run into troubles :P

[sandpuppi101]

anytime is fine!!!

[re-lapse]

anytime is fine!!!

k. I'll call you in the afternoon on Thursday for some assistance I'm sure of it, my brothers tired of dumping the gas tank and taking the carb off, but if we can solve the issue I dont' think he'll complain this time :)

Thanks a billion.

--Brett